Juwei-17 strain wave mount?

[garymck]

Hi,
wondering if anybody has ay experience with the Juwei-17 strain wave mount - or indeed any of the other newer, lower cost brands of mounts available on Aliexpress. It seems these all use the Onstep drives which means that long term maintenance may we easily done at home. The main issue I see seems to be the relatively slow slewing at 2.5 degrees /sec. They seem to be considerably cheaper than the name brands.
cheers
Gary

[TrevorW]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy52g1xfPj0


a review

[toc]

Does this mount have a homing sensor? Wasnt sure.

[garymck]

No, it doesn’t …
Gary

[BillR]

Mine arrived today. It feels and looks very well made. I have loaded the ascom onstep driver and it slews and tracks as expected in APT. I need to make a base plate to suit my tripod so it will be a while before first track. There are no clutches and no set home position so I will need to work out the best system to align the mount each time I set it up.

There is a long thread about this mount in Cloudy Nights that is worth reading. The overall impression is favourable but some people have a few issues that needed to be sorted out.

[garymck]

Did you buy from Aliexpress? If so did you have to pay GST/customs fees?

Gary

[BillR]

I paid $1620.54. This was with $120 discount and including the $140 delivery fee. I notice that the delivery fees varied from free delivery up to $240 but the final bottom line price was close for all the suppliers I looked at. There was no explicit customs clearance and/or GST fees but I suspect they were factored in to the bottom line price. Delivery was in just under 3 weeks tracked all the way to my door.

Bill

[garymck]

Thanks for that info Bill, much appreciated

Gary

[Nikolas]

There are some mounting plates for eq5 mounts available for these mounts.

[BillR]

Thanks. Yes I know but I have all the gear and materials to make my own and by the look of the cloud forcasts I will have plenty of time!
Bill

[ariefm71]

I've only been able to set it up last night. Mine comes with dual dovetail saddles. The motor at full speed is very very quiet almost can't hear it. Max slew speed is 2.60 degree per secs by default but I read in CN it can be doubled. Still trying to get myself familiar with the OnStep procedures.

[garymck]

Which vendor did you buy from, and did you have to specify the dual saddle?
cheers
Gary

[Nikolas]

some have the specification, most you just choose.

[ariefm71]

It's from here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007087622669.html

[Ramius]

I am interested in these also - tossing up between this and a used EQ6-R.
The AliExpress link with shipping and GST is about $1940 even with $125 discount. This seems the going rate on AliExpress so price may be creeping up.
Best deal currently seems to be Ebay at $1699 shipped with discount but I am unclear how warranty would work.

[garymck]

I have an EQ6R, but it's way too heavy to be easily portable. Mine is permanently mounted in a roll off roof. Lovely mount, performs fabulously. I would go the Juwei if you need to be portable. You have to assume no warranty with Ali stuff, but there is nothing much to go wrong with it.

Gary

[Ramius]

Gary
It will be going into a mini observatory so weight not necessarily a big issue hence I probably lean to the EQ6. Nonetheless portability would be nice to have as there some dark sky sites less than 40 minutes from home (not that i have used them so far).

Regarding warranty - yes I hear you WRT AliExpress. I have bought a lot of smaller items there but always on the assumption of no warranty. However the guys on the US forums are reporting good support from some of the AliExpress stores for the Juwei.

[Nikolas]

Keep looking at the Aliexpress stores there are some that are much cheaper than what you have seen.

[garymck]

I ended up buying one on Ebay today for $1699, didn't want the risk of getting hit with GST on delivery.

[Nikolas]

I just ordered this from aliexpress just now
Delivered by UPS and a discount of 135 so that helped negate the cost of the delivery

If GST does get applied it's an extra 167 still cheaper than the competition.

[garymck]

mine was $1699 delivered from Australia, so no gst....

Gary

[Ramius]

Interesting
The sale site clearly states Tax excluded. In the early days AliExpress did not directly charge GST but for some time it has been included late in the transaction - I thought when buying or going from cart to Checkout.

However i just did that - freight and coupon discount applied there but no GST. Perhaps it pops up on the final payment invoice ..or something has changed .. or senility?
Good price then - particulalry if you want the remote.

[garymck]

Ali now only charges GST on items under $1000, anything over that the carrier is supposed to collect GST and clear it through customs. Seems that sometimes they come through with no charge if you are lucky.....
Gary

[Ramius]

Thanks - that clears it up.
Curious though that they now mandate the small stuff while under $1000 used to be exempt. The whole GST on personal imports thing has been a fiasco since day one.

[Nikolas]

Mine arrived today 10 days ahead of the scheduled delivery date.

No GST and a very quick and pleasant experience. I haven't done anything with it yet as I am waiting for an eq5 tripod adapter which is in transit.

Looks solid as and I can't believe how light it is!

[garymck]

Look forward to seeing your results. Mine still isn't in the country.

[Nikolas]

Gotta wait for the mount adapters at this stage I tested it with the asiair just a slew back and forth to see if it all works, It's so quiet!!
I have to work out how the onstep controller works as I can't seem to connect it to the mount, it says wifi failed There are no instructions.

[garymck]

check out the Onstep Wiki:
https://onstep.groups.io/g/main/wiki/Home

Should help you out...
Gary

[BillR]

The onstep wiki has detailed instructions for connecting using usb, wifi and bluetooth. I use a minipc on the mount and remote desktop to it for control but found the bluetooth to minipc connection was not reliable - I suspect the minipc cannot cope with a simultaneous bluetooth and wifi connection. The direct usb mount to minipc works well.
Still waiting for the clouds to clear!!!

[Nikolas]

I still can't get my head around that wiki, I'm not too technical. All I want is for the mount to connect to the handset and vice versa. Is there a simple instruction without going through that wiki?

[BillR]

I don't have a hand controller but it appears from the wiki that it can connect via a cable plugged into the ST4 port or wifi. I would expect it to work straight away if plugged in. Have you tried this?

There is a very long Juwei thread on Cloudy Nights where some people are using the hand controller. It would be worth browsing this or asking a question there if you can't get it working.

[Nikolas]

I don't have a cable that can do that I'll fish around and see at home
It's the wifi that the hand controller can;t connect to the mount. I have the weekend to play around
cheers




Edit: from the wiki page (https://onstep.groups.io/g/main/wiki/28605) I read this: Starting Up
When the SHC is powered up an "OnStep w/Teen Astro" splash screen will appear for a few seconds then it'll tell you it's trying to connect. After a couple of seconds, if successful, the SHC will start displaying the status information across the top line (guide rate, pulse-guide rate, and a series of icons as described below) and the RA and Dec below that. If the connection is interrupted for any reason the SHC will automatically attempt to start the connection again.



In my case it just keeps attempting to connect the mount is powered on

[BillR]

Finally the clouds cleared and I had a chance to try my mount. By the time I sorted out how to polar align I only managed 30 minutes guided with PHD2. The mount achieved 0.8 arc secs rms even though the polar alignment was out by 23 arc minutes and the seeing was terrible. I am happy!

[garymck]

Sounds good, still waiting for mine from eBay - should have use Aliexpress!

[Nikolas]

All the mounting parts arrived and I have it mounted ready to go. Now for some clear skies.

[ChrisV]

I don't have one of these mounts but all my mounts (G11, EQ5 etc) use onstep. It's actually simpler to use the onstep phone app instead of the hand controller. Connect via Wi-Fi or Bluetooth - just depends on what the juwei onstep board has.

Otherwise, normal onstep hand controllers connect to the st4 port - use a standard cable (but there are Bluetooth variations)

[Ramius]

BillR
What payload - and with or without counterweight?
Bill

[garymck]

Mine finally arrived, really surprised at how well it is made. Finish is excellent and the equal of any premium mounts. Won’t be able to try it until bits to fit to tripod arrive- hopefully next week.

[BillR]

Some observations after a few nights use.

I have a Celestron C8, ZWO 533 pro, guidescope with camera mounted, total weight about 7.5 kg. I use APT with PHD2 guiding for control. In poor seeing with almost full moon conditions I have seen tracking from 0.8 to 1.2 arc secs. Meridian flips work fine but I had to select reverse DEC direction after flip in PHD2.

The mount ALT adjustment works fine but the AZ screws are too short -limiting the adjustment range. They are 6mm thread so can be replace easily with long bolts.

I would be interested to hear of other experiences.

Bill

[netwolf]

There seems to be a local seller on Ebay for these now.

[Nikolas]

He gets them shipped in from china they are not local. It takes longer to get them from the local seller than from AliExpress.

[garymck]

Seems they all come through with tracking defaulting to on when power is applied- not ideal. Here is a link on how to reflash to change this:

https://argth.notion.site/Update-Firmware-on-Juwei-17-12969f3f0a5a80eeb13bfcf275f9dd9e

I did mine following this procedure and all good.

[Nikolas]

Gave mine a decent test last night in very warm conditions, average RMS between .5 and .9 as the atmosphere was very wavy. Stars looked great. Only issue was when it went home end of session it was at 90 degrees west instead of up despite having set it at the start of the night and tested i to go home more than three times. Have to investigate further. Also have to check and see if meridian flip worked. ASIAIR was used.




Edit: Meridian flip worked perfectly, now to sort out the Home issue.

[BillR]

Garymck thanks for the link to switch off tracking at start. I have just done mine. Looks like the board has been updated. Mine did not have plug that goes to the brake. It must hsve been spliced into the power lead. My stepper drivers are plug in so would be easy to change for faster ones but we would need the source code to change the setting in the firmware.

[garymck]

mine has the same board as you including socketed stepper drivers. and no seperate lead for the ra brake. The drivers are TMC2209's so won't need to be changed. I also fitted small heatsinks to the drivers "just in case".

[garymck]

I have a Juwei 17 Manual - not a lot there but worth having for reference....

I can't upload it here as it is too big (2.4mb). PM me with an email address if you want a copy and I'll email it to you.

Gary

[Nikolas]

I was happy using it with the asiair, but after the firmware upgrade on the mount to stop it tracking on startup it will now not slew on the asiair despite it working as normal on my laptop using the ascom platform. IS anyone else using an asiair and have upgraded the firmware and now can't slew the mount?

[garymck]

I have an asiair, will give it a try this afternoon and report back. have only used it with ascom at the moment....

[garymck]

Just tested mine - works perfectly with both Air Onstep options (connected with USB cable, serial 9600 baud).

Did you remember to switch the number 4 switch on the Juwei board back to its original position after flashing?

Gary

[Nikolas]

I’m pretty sure I did but I’ll double check and maybe even reflash it
It ifi didn’t would it not then fail to work with Ascom?

[Nikolas]

Update, I started everything again this evening and it all works. I did nothing to it go figure, it may have been a glitch in the matrix or fiddling with the settings when I had it in Ascom.

[garymck]

Glad you had a good outcome!!

[Nikolas]

First and second light with it, the second night after the initial "glitch" was perfect, guiding meridian flip, home etc all worked flawlessly.

[maxxie]

Hi!

What tripod I should get that will fit Juwei-17 baseplate?

I just ordered the mount and need tripod. I'm fresh new to all of this so I have nothing yet except Sky-Watcher EvoStar 120ED that will arrive tomorrow :)
Thanks!

[jurkob]

Depends how lightweight/portable of a setup you need

If weight is not an issue, I'd recommend a steel tripod like the SkyWatcher NEQ5 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007428734822.html) with an adapter (https://www.proxisky.com/products/EQ5Adapter.html)

If you need portable (ie carbon fiber):
- Cheap option is a Bexin ST402C (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007863691320.html)
- More expensive option, but worthwhile in my opinion, is an Innorel RT90C or its variants - (Amazon (https://www.amazon.com.au/Carbon-Tripod-Tripod-ARTCISE-Adapter-Fiber-40mm/dp/B087PHXNTN) is cheapest currently)
- You would need to 3D print some parts (plate adapter (https://www.printables.com/model/1010722-innorel-rt90c-tripod-plate-adapter-for-zwo-am3am5a) and tripod spreader (https://www.printables.com/model/1015721-innorel-rt90c-tripod-leg-spreader-for-zwo-pe200-pi))
- If you don't have access to a 3D printer or don't want to fuss with it just get a ZWO TC40

[maxxie]

Thanks a lot! ARTCISE AS90C looks like the winner!

I ordered smaller brother of RT90C, INNOREL NT404C, also 40mm tube, 30kg load, but mounting plate is not ideal, can be a challenge ... $280 on Amazon AU.

I might return it and get AS90C.

[maxxie]

I found Innorel RT90C on eBay AU for $382 (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/394789933357), only 2 left.
NT404C goes back to Amazon :)

I do have 3D printer, Bambu A1 Mini, sweet thing. But I'll try to make aluminium backing plate, I think plastic filament is not solid enough. This is the point of max torque ...

[maxxie]

Thanks jurkob!
I mated RT90C to ZWO PE200 pier. Ready for Juwei :)
The black insert piece under three bolts and spreader are 3D printed. I modified it a little, holes are now 66mm all the way through. Ask me for STL file.
Bolts are from Bunnings, M6x30mm stainless steel. Center bolt M8x120mm, I had to file off a little from sides of the bolt head to fit it into the plate center hole.

Btw, if anyone wants unmodified insert, for shorter cup-head bolts, I can send it for free, just cover the postage.

[varshnei]

I've got it's younger brother, the J14 coming soon. CNY so it'll probably be a couple weeks.

Already have 2 x AM5s so this is one for a new rig. Didn't want to spend the $$ on a AM3 and picked this up for $1,290 + $140 shipping. Lets see if I get hit by GST or not.. still just over half of a AM3!

Its got a 8kg/13kg load limit which is the same as the AM3. I'll probably not be north of 5kg anyway.

The absence of the homing feature is a bummer (feels like a software issue?) but not an issue for me since Im going to be using this out in the field when Im next to it.

[garymck]

Just spent 2 nights at the ASV's Heathcote sight. All worked perfectly. Best guiding was .5"rms, had some terrible seeing and guiding did get up well above 1"rms, but that was not the mounts fault, just despite being clear, the wind was strong and gusty. Found best guiding performance was with short .5 sec exposures with low aggression on both axis (60%). When the wind died down, guiding wa typically .5-.8" rms.

Very happy with the mount - carrying an SVBony 122mm f7 with no counterweight.

Gary

[Orion31]

Greetings all,

Have any of you opened your Juwei 17 mounts to look inside at the internals? I’m curious how they compare to the ZWO for build quality on the inside.

C

[garymck]

Have had a look inside mine, but. can't compare to ZWO as I've not seen inside one of them. My Juwei is neat, well finished and appears very nicely made.

It guides - depending upon seeing at 0.5- 0.8 arc secs rms wiith a 122mm f7 refractor and other bits attached with no counterweight.

cheers
Gary

[Orion31]

Thanks Mate,

I was watching a thread on another site with a teardown of the AM5N and was wondering if anyone had looked at the build quality inside of the Juwei.

Christiaan

[Nikolas]

I opened mine to update the firmware as I had to toggle a few switches. It's nicely made that's for sure. I can't compare it with the ZWO version though.

[astro1965]

Hi all,just thinking about getting the Jewei 14,but seems most people have the Juwei 17,...just interested to hear from people with these mounts, how are they performing after a few months of use,eg any mechanical or electrical issues,are you still still happy with your purchase or maybe a AM5
or SW strainwave may have been a better decision,thanks.

[garymck]

Very happy with my Juwri 17. Carries a 120mm refractor for imaging very nicely without a counterweight. Guiding figures are very dependant on atmospheric conditions. I get rms values ranging from .5 to 1 arc sec, typically around .7-.8. These figures are equivalent to to my EQ6R. I did reflash the firmware so that the mount did not start tracking on power up. I am very happy with mine, glad I took the punt and bought it.
FWIW
Gary

[astro1965]

thanks for the info gary, just one question, how do you polar align the mount,
is there a onstep app or controller I can use, also I read its not very difficult connecting say to stellarium,phd2 or sharpcap for controlling the mount.

[garymck]

You use the onstep ascom driver, or ASIAIR to to drive it, if using ascom I polar align using Nina,if using the ASIAIR, I use the polar alignment routine in that. This assumes you have a camera attached.
Cheers
Gary