Dark Skies Defiled by unprecedented Massive Land Grab

[fringe_dweller]

Hi All,
I know we amateurs are supposed to be all sweetness and light - and negativity is a contagious disease - be here comes a rant anyway!

I recently unfairly seemed to berate a fellow astronomy enthuisiast/ South Aussie - Slice of Heavan - my tirade was a pavlov's dog reaction I now have to just seeing or hearing the name of Murray Bridge. MB is now a metaphor to me that represents all that is happening.
While being a extremely provincial complaint in nature on a national forum, I am sure it is happening all over the country and indeed the world.
Am I the only person in Oz that gives a toss? coz sometimes it feels that way.
I wish truly dark skies had a monetary or heritage value, then they would be taken more seriously. I feel like no one is sticking up for them and in the underdog tradition of Oz, I will stick up for them.
Everyone seems quite placated now coz software/filters and digital imaging will take care of those pesky gradients. I'm alright jack thankyou very much, dont rock the boat.
What if your a non-digital astronomer city dweller and still like to see truly dark skies now and then without running the gauntlet of kangaroos/wombats/megabeast triple tandum semis /escaped livestock and dangerous country roads for too long? to see the stars again.
I dont want to have to drive to alice springs to see dark skies just coz every man and his dog wants to romantically "live in the country" thereby contributing to destroying the very thing they all moved there for.
While people will say we still have the huge empty north here (for how much longer i wonder and certainly not near the coast) I feel the rain shadow/escarpement country of the eastern side of the southern Mount Lofty ranges should of been preserved forever - as it has irreplaceable qualities - elevation for one - a rare commodity in SA. Also I am totally convinced that at least the Mount Pleasant area from where myself and a few friends of have observed for a decade, is special and blessed with that rare effect (ive forgotten what it is called) where the turbulent air is settled and calmed as it travels along the rolling hills creating an oasis of good seeing. Also the further south the better for those low southerly comets (for me) as well as just generally the parts of the southern sky we in the south are famous for. Every degree south is Very important to me personally - and I dont want to see a big light dome blocking southerly views.
Also most flat dark areas available (like the mallee for instance) are rocky/stony and not grassy enough and radiate heat back into the sky ruining the seeing - not to mention difficult to access without 4X4. Its funny how people dont build in the badlands so much, just the choicest bits are ruined of course.
I dont know about others - but when i see a location that was truly dark for millions and billions of years suddenly become another yucky glowing ball of light - it gets me going to say the least.
Ah we must have our bread and circus's ie a speedway in the middle of nowhere.
Not mention the Adelaide Hills in general - I blame greedy councils hugely - they also have $ signs and the sound of ker-ching in their ears. Mt Barker Strathalbyn and environs - one question why? That is all the prime farming/dairy lands, these were our breadbaskets in a breadbasket deprived land?? lets cover it in tarmac and sprawling suburbia instead - sick! whats the matter wiith everyone?
I liked the system they have in Britian where the country side is sacred and have very very strict laws forbidding the building on agricultural lands - sorry build up -not out! Thereby protecting something that really belongs to everybody - not just some fuedal lord hobby farmer/ blockie.
exhausted Regards
Fringey
PS anyone else for spleen venting? i want to start the 'have whinge section' Mick is that possible? :)

[slice of heaven]

I've got thick skin and broad shoulders and didn't take it personally Fringey.
I know first hand what you mean of the LP thats wiping out the dark skies in this area.
I used to visit a farm along the Palmer hills (towards MT pleasant) 25yrs ago. From there you could see the small lights of towns over a 270 degree view. The towns in distance ranged from 30 to 100 KMs. Now from the east to the southwest the only lights you can see are floodlights and freewaylights and the large orange skyglow of MB. AND Adelaide to the west.
The skyglow of Adelaide has also increased dramatically over the last 20yrs. I do a lot of fishing and camping on the beaches past the Coorong. These days you have the constant reminder of civilization in the form of the skyglow from Victor Harbour and Adelaide. This is 200Ks from Adelaide .The skies there WERE totally dark.
It seems most people accept it and thats it. The newer generations wont know any different because they never experienced dark skies in their own back yard. Growing up I used to lie on the front lawn and watch the skies. The Milky Way even cast shadows back then. To experience that now I would have to drive a further 60Ks East. At the proportional rate that LP is growing another 5-10 yrs and you could put another 100Ks on that.
By the time councils and people in general realize the dark skies are an asset it'll be too late,as usual.

So Im with you Fringey, I like my visual viewing of the heavens ,but for how much longer I can do this happily from my backyard is anyones guess.

Slice

[acropolite]

I know the feeling fringe, here in Tas we have one of the most irresponsible (in my opinion corrupt) governments in the country. They virtually give land away to big business interests and are destroying our native forests at an alarming rate. When existing laws get in the way they nullify or amend them to achieve their aims. Not only that but we are forced to smoke a long eucalypt cigarette, whether we need it or not, for months on end as they burn what's left after logging for regeneration. The smoke reeks of the chemical incendiaries used to start the burns and has been non stop since Easter this year. When they do replant, they then poison our waterways with chemicals from aerial spraying. Complain and the big businesses involved take you to court. It's a sign of the times and your right, the average joe takes the I'm alright Jack approach. :tasdevil:

[fringe_dweller]

Councils (thesedays) = strident Corporate Identities
Its makes me very happy to read someone else is also noting the passing of some very special dark skies : RIP Truly Dark southern central SA Skies ( I hear the bugle sounding its sad lament) .
The enviroment and dark skies dont stand a chance against us really, they were doomed from the start!
I remember traveling on the back of a small flat bed truck all the way to an isolated hindmarsh island shack, nearly every weekend for years, in my youth in Adders at least 25 years ago - and just staring at the Milky Way for the duration of the trip in a dream (despite some small cabin lights) , as it wound through Woodside/Hahndorf down through meadows and bull Creek and on. We also use to sleep and fish in the coorong sand dunes (near the Murray Mouth) and it was indeed seriously dark down there.
Night fishing was what got me into Amateur skywatching in the beginning,
Slice, you mention travelling 70 clicks east (down the Dukes highway I assume - scary at night!!) I have met quite a few non-astronomy people people who have remarked about the amazing views of starry skies near Coonalpyn or that general area down to tintinara (sic)?(at the right times of year) and beyond.In fact one friend in particular who worked drove/codrove removal trucks with his brother all over SA/Vic/NSW/southern QLD for many, many years, 24 hours a day.
And when he heard me say that I was interested in astronomy one day- he couldnt wait to tell me about an amazing experience he had with starry skies while on break (have a leak/stretch the legs/cup of tea). It was near Coonalpyn. he said that night he had seen the most amazing night skies he has ever seen in all his travels in all his life (with obviously) many pit stops everywhere over the years - and he has spent a lot of time in the flinders and all over Oz in fact ... NT,QLD also.
They uaually remark that its so 3D its like your floating off into space :)
I too have seen similar skies down there myself over the years - that blew my mind! But I like the western grampians and the hay plains too -they are very special too.
I am sure everybody has these types of stories - I would like to hear them if are willing to share them.
Fringey

[fringe_dweller]

Phil,
I lived in tassie (launceston -from the age 8-13? I think ) after moving from Townsville/Brisbane/Charters towers, for 4 years - the cataract gorge and environs was my backyard :) it was/is an unbelievably beautiful place. I think it should be put under glass (to quote someone else) and preserved as lungs for the world. A friends and I are seriously thinking of moving to NZ - hopefully before they suffer the same fate.
Cheers
Fringey
Fight the Power!

[fringe_dweller]

Will look later sorry - Aurora was in progress - a few minutes ago http://www.mso.anu.edu.au/~gordon/20050515-9.23UT.jpg this Gordon Garrad in NSW

[Astroman]

Couldn't see the Aurora from here because of the MASSIVE light dome from Adelaide.

[fringe_dweller]

Cant find RAJAH235's reply now - with the anti - LP form? anyone know what happened?
And atsroman's has changed content - help!

[fringe_dweller]

I am standing in that Massive light Dome - i know all about it mate :)
Its not me though. and there is no aurora to see presently anyway - not unless IMF goes south again - I knew people that saw the big one nov 2001 from Para Hills after i informed them via telephone - we need to move mount lofty out of the way tho too - woops did I just say that?
Cheers
Fringey
A Lover not a Fighter!

[RAJAH235]

I deleted it. :D L.
ps. will keep you all posted........ :P
attached sample of 1/2 of the postcard.

[Astroman]

Oops sorry for content change.

Just on the topic though, I have noticed since moving in here about 9 years ago how the sky has changed, I don't even try and look south anymore, I have a little patch of sky to the north about 70 degrees up that stays dark, but limited in objects I can see. It's quite depressing that our sky is getting eatten up by Housing developments that build build and build so people can live further from the city, but at the same time wonder why people don't goto the city anymore, strange.

[fringe_dweller]

I strongly beleive that we will just be P*ssing against the wind - I dont mean to be discouraging - but i hope i am so very wrong on this!! I prefer to sit oon mmy arse and cry and complain loudly about it instead quite frankly :)
My favourite anecdote about this subject was a gentleman in Qld i think - it was in an old Sky and Space readers letter. Anyway he stood in a queue at his local council's offices to complain about LP and see if anything could be done about it - and when he spoke his mind to the clerk the other residents/people in the queue behind started abusing him (who were in a hurry as well probably) they all were saying things like - aaww cmon - GET A LIFE mate (read: P*ss off pathetic loser/weirdo/terrorist/communist) i can almost here them myself.
Thats what we/your up against!
Cheers
the gloomy Fringerator

[fringe_dweller]

Andrew, I am totally aware, naturally,that I am preaching to the Choir/converted
But I know you are likeminded and can understand me perfectly.
Fringey

[fringe_dweller]

and remember Apathy and Malaise rule Ok! (the enemy)
time to take my medication now :) (metaphorically speaking that is)

[Starkler]

Sadly for the average person light pollution issues would rate as highly for them as the plight of the amazonian three toed sloth.
It just isnt on their radar of things to care about.

Its just us fringe loonies with an obscure nerdy hobby that care.

[fringe_dweller]

While I fully understand it would come low down on 99.9999999% of people's lists, - and who can blame anyone? when it is hard enough managing to feed and look after the kids and put a roof over your head, buy that next years model Monaro, buy that that third investment property, ect. why should they care is maybe the question I am not sure?, and the great Australian Dream (backyard, hills hoist) is even (very naturally) a much more sacred thing than anything else in our metaphysical constitution. I too dream of living in the country on acerage, like any normal person would, but I am also quite happy to just visit it too.
Fringed Mullet

[MiG]

While I am always whining about LP to my friends, you can't forget that what we are asking for is a pain in the arse for the vast majority of the population for the sake of a relatively rare hobby.

[fringe_dweller]

yes thats so true - oh well we might as well just get on with it and just enjoy whats left of the really dark locations (close to cities) before they are all gone. What i dont understand is i thought we had zero population growth? - by looking at all the new sprawling outer suburbs and countryside developments you wouldnt think so!
Regards
Fringey

[fringe_dweller]

Addendum:Flogging a dead horse! (hopefully i am just not talking to myself!)
I said previously "Councils (thesedays) = strident Corporate Identities" Identities? Entities!
All we need now is for local councils (corporations) to list on the stock exchange and having stockholders (ratepayers?) baying for massive profits - that will be the end!

Fringey (with nothing better to do than question the status quo)

[rumples riot]

Very interesting vitriole. I must say that up here in Blackwood the light dome is not so bad, that is because most of the interesting stuff is to the south and east. So I can still see the Milky Way. however, it is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. So to combat this I bought a block of land at Parsons beach 213km from Adelaide on the York Peninsula. There are only 20 houses there and 5 street lights. The nearest town is Minlaton with a population of around 700 people. The nearest major town is York Town 50 km away pop 3000. Parsons has a restriction on development and the block I bought was subdivided 20 years ago before the restrictions started. Hence it should remain dark for the rest of my life. It is very dark, only a little glow on the eastern horizon of two fingers. All the rest is pitch black. Now building my new house there and one day want to retire over there.

There will be no stopping the LP problem as we embrace globalism (Thatcherism) more and more. Since most voters are political morons, we will continue to loose more and more of the dark. One day in the future people will realize it is actually midnight during the day!!!:mad2: :mad2: :whistle:

[fringe_dweller]

Blackwood is a lot darker than the plains thats for sure :) That block sounds very nice Paul! I use to fish at butlers and troubridge point at night a bit in the old days, and lived at Corny point working on a farm for while many years ago. speccy skies. But up around Wallaroo Moonta ect. Dark skies are getting a hammering? Most people I have know have moved or are going to move to the countryside somewhere! or they have a block somewhere like they will move to eventually .. I am the last one left nearly!
Maybe thats my problem, i am just jealous? heheh
Dont get me started on people voting with their wallets and not necessarily thinking everything through with their heart/mind. :) but then who am I to question the will of the majority - I dont know - The left is not much different to conservative's on most stuff these days - its all types of governments - brightlly lit skies will aways get the vote of course - bright skies means Jobs! dark skies are just not cuddly enough! and to most people I think IMHO dark skies on the whole just frankly scares and depresses them. Our first instinct is to build a big bright bonfire in those conditions and crack out the stubbies.
Cheers
Fringey