Vixen introduce a very interesting Sphinx Mount SXD, 22KG payload capacity < $3K

[g__day]

http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=9633

It may look like the original mount which has a 12kg payload capacity, but this one handles 50lbs or 22 kgs - about the same as an EQ6 for about $500 more.

Which makes its a very, very interesting scope for those with medium sized SCTs + guide scopes.

* * * *

Vixen - Sphinx SXD Deluxe Computerized Equatorial Mount with Starbook Controller




The new deluxe version of the Vixen Sphinx mount is now available! Capable of handling a much larger OTA than the standard Sphinx...up to 50 pounds!
Incorporates one piece hardened steel RA and DEC shafts with needle bearings, and includes periodic error correction (PEC).
Bright 4.7" color LCD screen on the intuitive Starbook hand controller displays objects on a star chart background. Zoom in/out features on the screen also control motor speed...the controller and mount work in concert with one another!
This model does not come with a tripod.
Weight Capacity is 50 lbs.* * * * *

http://www.astro-optical.com.au/newproducts.html

Delivery expected June/July 2007. Anticipated price $2899.00 - $2949.00 (without tripod

(Note interesting how Astro Optical supplies say it has a 15KG wiegth capacity, although the main Vixen site clearly says 50lbs / 2.2 = 22.7 Kgs).

[[1ponders]]

Not bad, not bad at all. :confuse3:

[matt]

Very interesting.

The stated load capacity (kgs) appears to be different depending on which website you're looking at, but it's certainly going to carry a heavier load than my SkyWatcher EQ6.

A 22kg load limit would be quite attractive. How nice would a Mewlon 250 look parked on top of that!!!:whistle:

I also like the look of that little computer that comes with it.

[mick pinner]

the aussie web site is still quoting 15kg and priced at only $400 more than the American site, something amiss somewhere.

[Kal]

The vixen Japan website states 15kg (http://www.vixen.co.jp/at/sxd.htm) as well, so I think OPTcorp are listing a wrong amount of 50lb.

The aussie price looks OK, if anything, OPTcorp is charging too much. It is listed as ¥262,500 in Japan, which is under AU$2600 with a direct conversion.

[g__day]

Could well be, but every single US site lists it as 50lbs!

[JohnH]

Hi all,

This mount has actually been around a while (Jan announcement I think) an has shipped in the US. Controversy rages in the Yahoo group about the carrying capacity depite that, certainly there are some users out there with big weights on it.

As ever with new products caution - let somebody else bust their chops on v1 especially as Vixen's (English language) customer support is diabolical/non-existant. There are some limitations in the starbook too, for example PEC though present does not save between sessions - you have to retrain each time you turn the power off...the dispay is upside down for S.Hemisphere users etc... Having said that no product is perfect and the Vixen mechanicals are excellent so I think, for the money, this knocks an EQ6 for six....that is why I have a Sphinx.

[casstony]

Vixen has done an outstanding job mechanically with the Sphinx - I like the short moment arm, common sense design. In addition to sorting out the bugs for imagers, I'd like to see them release a cheaper non-goto version.

[JohnH]

That is the domain of the GP and GPD surely? There is no way to manually set the Sphinx to DEC, RA (no setting circles).

BTW there were also starbook/motor upgrades released for the GP/GPD and the ALT/AZ Skypod...finally, and this really is JUST announced - the Atlux/Starbook. This latter really can carry 50lbs...

[casstony]

I guess setting circles would need to be added to a non-goto version, but I generally don't use setting circles as I use my EQ5 for objects that are easily found. I guess what I'm saying is I'd like to see the demise of the older style mounts and have the whole range based on the Sphinx design.

[g__day]

I spent quite some time last night looking for reviews. There was a partial one on cloudy nights, but it lacked alot of technical details.

Certainly the Yanks seems to be saying you sold it to us (and still do on six of the largest scope sites in the USA) as having a carrying capacity of 50 lbs - so if it's really only 33lbs welcome to a class action suit.

All say it looks beautiful, its mostly silent and its gotos are very good.

There is no technical assessment of the load carrying, although there are hints - like one guy saying I loaded it right up but there was no sign of strain or drop in performance. So the question remains does it match the carrying capacity of an EQ 6 (with 3 times better PE - untrained) or is it between an EQ 6 and HEQ 5?

Too I could find no technical assessment of the PE, the sentiment seemed to be it felt the same as the earlier version (about 8 arc secs vs 20 for a EQ6 and 15 for some HEQ5s - the EQ 5 and 6 PE from http://demeautis.christophe.free.fr/ep/pe.htm ).

Everyone was asking if the PEC was remembered between sessions - annoying if its not. I found no data on how good was the tracking once the
PE has been trained.

Lastly I haven't yet found anyone controlling the scope via running a simple network (10 base T) LAN cable into a PC and using the ASCOM drivers to run say Cartes Du Ciel and control everything from there - but I'd be confident its capable.

What I do hear about the starbook is it keeps getting better (it's up to software release version 35 now), but even with a dimmer function the display is too bright - some astro sites in the US sell it with a slab of red perspex to go over the display!

I'll be very interested to see how this develops. I'm guessing the load will be 15kgs - which isn't bad for its load carrying, pointing, tracking capabilities at the recommended price point, but at 22kgs it would have been fantastic!

[[1ponders]]

If it is 15kg then it's in the same weight limit as the Losmandy G8, but at $2600 the G8 doesn't come with Gemini for goto. At that weight to price ratio with goto it is looking like a very good option.

[g__day]

Yep, last I looked the G8 was around $4,000 with Goto, has a 13kg weight limit, looks sexy, has some risk of motor burnout if not well balanced and appears to be within 1 acrsec of the Vixen's tracking performance for the SXW mount.

So Vixen may have a winner here.

Interestingly I read that the local distributors - Astro Optical - who seem switched on to me - apparently didn't know of this mounts existence for the last 3 months until a customer queried them why they didn't stock it!

[beren]

:D

The G8 price puts it temptingly close to the G11 :face:

[g__day]

The G11 seems to range with goto between $5,000 to $5,500 - for much sturdier design and carrying capacity - a much better buy IMHO.

[Starkler]

I have read that Vixen rates the load carrying capacity quite conservatively compared to other makers. Could it just be American dealers taking licence based on that assumption?

[Dennis]

Quite possibly – I once heard that e.g. Takahashi specify their mounts load carrying rating for imaging/auto guiding, whilst e.g. Losmandy specify their mounts load carrying rating for visual use and it is recommended to de-rate it for imaging?

Cheers

Dennis

[[1ponders]]

I've just noticed the Vixen is "Without Tripod". Why would you sell a mount without a tripod? I've noticed this with a number of mounts.

[Kal]

This sounds quite logical. I suppose if they are trying to market this mount in Japan against the low end tak mounts then stating the maximum capacity with regards to astrophotography makes sense. On the other hand, if you are marketing it in the US and your competition is more for visual use then stating a 'maximum capacity' with reference to visual capacity also makes sense. The different capacity figures would then be 15kg maximum recommended for photography, and 22kg maximum for visual.

[Starkler]

I guess a fair proportion of people buying high end large mounts will fix them to a pier and don't want to pay for a tripod they wont use :shrug:

[g__day]

On the subject of tripods, there's the option of with and without - a $200 difference at time of purchase. I guess folk like the option to compartmentalise costs they way they like it. As I want to pier mount my next mount, the tripod isn't immediately useful. So its a nice to have for me, if I'm on a budget.

On the 50 lbs = 22.7 Kgs vs 15 Kgs (2/3 of the weight) in America's highly litigaous society, I'm pondering if it may just be a carry capacity vs maximum recommended imaging weight.

Also I notice the mount comes standard with 12.4 lbs = 5.5 kgs of counterweight (even thou the motors act as a bit of counter weight from their posiitoning. If you wanted to maximum load this mount to say 22 Kgs would you need to add 12 Kgs - 15 Kgs of weight onto the bar? That looks like it might be a very tight squeeze from the layout of the mount versus counterweight bar and how full it looks with only 5.5 Kgs of weight. I'm thinking 3-4 times this would be one crowded bar!

I'd sure like to see this mount put through its paces at the maxium level of its specificed performance - wouldn't you?

[Stephan]

The Vixen - Sphinx SXD has a load capacity of 15kg as stated by the manufacturer in Japan. However, as you actually can only give a max torque, the statement of a payload rather a guideline. The max load can only be determined for a given lever length (the length of the particular telescope).

Also, a stated payload is not the structural limit of the mount. That is probably 5 or 10 times higher than the max payload. The payload is more an expression for a load at which the mount is not too sensitive to external disturbances such as wind or touching the telescope. Which at the end is more preference than a defined value. The other thing is there is no definition or rule on how the max payload is determined. Therefore each manufactures states whatever he thinks is okay. The EQ-6 for example is rated very differently too, some say 16kg is max other think 24kg.

As for the sphinx, a while ago I found some images on the web (can't remember where exactly) from a guy how used a Takahashi Epsilon 180ED on a normal sphinx and took images with exposures of 5min without any guiding. That is quite impressive. He quoted for the weight (including tube rings and camera etc) 14kg. That also means that the max payload for visually would be around 16-18kg. Therefore I can imagine that 20kg for the sphinx are really possible.

Clear Skies

Stephan

[g__day]

Replying to Astro-Optical Supplies today

Warren,

Thanks for your replies. Could you qualify three things further:

1. I know the mount has PEC, what's the PE before and after correction. If you say its 8 arc/secs before and as good as 2 arc/seconds after - you've answered my original question which remains was what is the raw, untrained PE; not does it have PEC yes/no - which is clearly advertised as a yes

2. Currently the SXD forgets PE training on every power down - a real bummer for those of us with permanent astro labs, is Vixen thinking of fixing this and if so by when?

3. Is 15 KGs the load capacity for astrophotography or visual? Generally they and Takahasi are very conservative on their carrying capacity. The six largest suppliers of scopes in the USA still quote 22.7 Kgs (for 4 months now) and the question has be raised multiple times on both Yahoo Groups for Vixen and CloudyNights - the two main online interest groups for astronomy in the USA. Vixen has stated stunningly quiet as to why the major US sites still insist on telling US suppliers (upon multiple customer queries) that the carrying capacity is 50lbs.

e.g.


http://www.vixenoptics.com/new.html
NEW Vixen Sphinx SXD DELUXE Mount
We can now offer the latest in what has become a family of Sphinx mounts. The SXD is built with steel RA and Dec shafts, needle bearings and accurate, heavy duty motors and gears. This astro-photographers dream mount now comes standard with “PEC” – Periodic Error Correction and polar finder scope. Load limit of 50 lbs!
http://www.adorama.com/VXSPHSXDHL13.html (http://www.adorama.com/VXSPHSXDHL13.html)

Vixen Sphinx SXD Deluxe Mount with hal130 SX Tripod, Supports up to 50 lbs

http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=9634 (http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=9634)

The Sphinx D is capable of handling much larger OTAs than the standard Sphinx...up to 50 pounds!

http://www.buytelescopes.com/product.asp?t=&pid=12230&m (http://www.buytelescopes.com/product.asp?t=&pid=12230&m)=

Incorporating one piece hardened steel RA and DEC shafts with needle bearings throughout, the new Sphinx D can handle a load capacity up to 50 lbs

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/1525088/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/vc/1 (http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/1525088/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/vc/1)

The regular Sphinx D has a payload rating of 15.

The "SXD" Is a TOTALLY different mount that is based on the regular "D" model. This has a supposed payload rating of 50 lbs. This is also probably a visual payload rating. AP use would probably be a bit more than half of that.


http://vixen.binoculars.com/products/vixen-sphinx-sxd-mount-without-tripod-59133.html (http://vixen.binoculars.com/products/vixen-sphinx-sxd-mount-without-tripod-59133.html)

the new Sphinx D can handle a load capacity up to 50 lbs

http://www.binoculars.com/products/vixen-sphinx-sxd-mount-with-hal130-sx-tripod-59134.html (http://www.binoculars.com/products/vixen-sphinx-sxd-mount-with-hal130-sx-tripod-59134.html)

Sphinx D can handle a load capacity up to 50 lbs


So its not one small seller told 15kgs - its 6 of the largest 7 sellers told 50lbs. Storm brewing!



Many thanks,


Matthew----- Original Message -----

From: Astro Optical Supplies (astro@aapt.net.au)

To: Matthew (matthew.kendall@optushome.com.au)

Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 6:12 PM

Subject: Re: VIXEN SPHINX DELUXE EQUATORIAL MOUNT



Hello Matthew,

My answers appear below your questions.

Contact us to order or for more information.


Best regards, Warren




=================================== =======================

ASTRO OPTICAL SUPPLIES

39 Hume Street 320 St Kilda Road

Crows Nest NSW 2065 St Kilda VIC 3129

AUSTRALIA

Ph: +61 2 9436 4360 +61 3 9593 9512

Fax: +61 2 9439 8926


astro@aapt.net.au (astro@aapt.net.au)

www.astro-optical.com.au (http://www.astro-optical.com.au)

=================================== =======================


----- Original Message -----

From: Matthew (matthew.kendall@optushome.com.au)

To: enquiry@astro-optical.com.au (enquiry@astro-optical.com.au)

Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 4:26 PM

Subject: VIXEN SPHINX DELUXE EQUATORIAL MOUNT



Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by

Matthew on Saturday, June 2, 2007 at 14:26:06

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

body:

This looks a very interesting mount for someone that currently does astrophotography on a lower end goto mount (CG5).


I note the manufacturer says this mount has a carrying capacity of 50lbs which (dividing by 2.2) is 22.7kgs, not 15 kgs.

Some American sites have got the wrong information, its load capacity is 15Kg

Could you double check carrying capacity please.


Secondly do you have anly information of the Periodic Error of this new mount, I read that the original Spinx was +/- 8 arc seconds, is this version the same better or worse?

The mount has programmable PEC.

Thirdly can this mount's star book be connected to a PC running Cartes du Ceil and the ASCOM general drivers with Vixen specific add ons to fully computer control the slews and gotos?

I presume so, it is compatible with StarryNight & The Sky

Fourth can this mount accept a standard (S-BIG 4 compatible wiring) autoguider? I use PHD with a Meade DSI on an 80 mm Megrez to drive my CG5, and I'd love to simply transfer all my OTAs to a higher capacity mount.

It is compatible with S-BIG

Lastly what are the dimensions (diameter and depth of the base of teh mount and its central connecting screw)? I'd like to machine the right adapter to connect it to my custom pier.

The base is virtually the same as an EQ5 (which is a very loose copy of older Vixen mounts)

Many thanks,


Matthew (Sydney)

[g__day]

And

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/1530331/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/vc/1

posted this content roughly elsewhere:

I went to Rivers Camera (Dover NH) today for their "Astroday"... in addition to Celestron and TV being there, Vixen Optic's Mike Fowler was in from California (and will be at NEAF shortly as well)...

He and I had a very lengthy discussion about all things Vixen; I found him to be supremely knowledgeable on every topic both Vixen and beyond...

He told me that the SXD specifically would handle 50 pounds; that externally it was a Sphinx SXW (the blue covers will be white) - but the key changes were that the spindles, key mechanicals, etc... inside were made of stainless steel, and that instead of roller bearings for RA/DEC it has hardened steel "needle bearings"...

This he said increased the weight limits and significantly improved tracking... it will have built-in Firmware upgrade to the Starbook for PEC, and the PEC firmware upgrade for us Sphinx SXW ownwers is "imminent" (yeay!)...

And it will come with the Vixen Polar alignment scope built in as well... All for around $2600-2700. He said it works best on the HAL tripod, which is much sturdier than many think it could be (my experience is that visually it is fine, I do not YET have enough AP experience to comment).

He also said that Vixen Japan is VERY conservative on their ratings... so, maybe that has something to do with this building 15Kg versus 50 pounds mini-controversy... can't speak to that...

My overall impression was that he was SO knowledgeable in every area I wanted to discuss with him that I don't think VO would intentionally mislead with the 50Lb claim

He also noted that they will shortly be bringing a new variant of the Atlux (can't remember the name) which will carry MORE and use SkyBook as well...

[Kal]

All of these retailers are US, and they are passing on the information that they would have received from the US distributer. The US distributer is not the manufacturer though, the only manufacturer is in Japan as far as I know.
A distributer (or a retailer) can rate a product to a higher specification than the manufacturer as long as they provide warranty support to that rating as far as I know. Perhaps this is simply the case here? The US distributer is rating it higher as it is willing to warrant that the mount will operate normally, and under full warranty, at up to 50lb?

[g__day]

Warren at Astro-Optical was kind enough to add more information:

1. I know the mount has PEC, what's the PE before and after correction. If you say its 8 arc/secs before and as good as 2 arc/seconds after - you've answered my original question which remains was what is the raw, untrained PE; not does it have PEC yes/no - which is clearly advertised as a yes
The PEC is to adjust for the PE of individual mounts as they vary in manufacture. We are unable to put a number on this correction.
2. Currently the SXD forgets PE training on every power down - a real bummer for those of us with permanent astro labs, is Vixen thinking of fixing this and if so by when?
Vixen have not announced such a modification
3. Is 15 KGs the load capacity for astrophotography or visual? Generally they and Takahasi are very conservative on their carrying capacity. The six largest suppliers of scopes in the USA still quote 22.7 Kgs (for 4 months now) and the question has be raised multiple times on both Yahoo Groups for Vixen and CloudyNights - the two main online interest groups for astronomy in the USA. Vixen has stated stunningly quiet as to why the major US sites still insist on telling US suppliers (upon multiple customer queries) that the carrying capacity is 50lbs.
It really is only Americans love of big numbers. This mount will accept a 15Kg telescope (this is what we call its load capacity) add two
3.7Kg counterweights & you end up with the mounts total loaded weight of 22.4Kg which is 49.38Lbs.

[g__day]

Well several months on Steve at MyAstroShop is now advertising these at $2,500 - which for a high performance, mid range weight carrying capacity seems an excellent choice:

http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-069

[Dennis]

Thanks for the bulletin Matthew. This looks a great mount, offering excellent capabilities and functionality. If I didn't still have my GPDX and Skysensor 2000, I would consider getting one at this price. I’ve always been impressed with Vixen products which I have purchased (made in Japan) and they offer excellent value for money.

Cheers

Dennis