Telescope for child?

[mwill76]

Hi all,

My first post, I'm researching for my son who is turning 7 next month and desperately wants a telescope.

He's a keen learner and is 'bright' for his age and picks up anything to do with technology very quickly. He's already got an astonomy book and studies the stars and moon and recalls info about them so I think he will grasp a telescope quite easily.

I have no idea where to start or what to look for when it comes to these things (he will work it out how to use it before I do no doubt) and was after some opinions as to what brand and model to buy for a first timer.

I don't want to get him anything 'too' basic and want to get him a proper scope not a 'toy' one.

Any help would be much appreciated :)

Thanks!

[iceman]

Hi there! Welcome to IIS!

You've made the right decision by seeking advice first, and not just getting him a cheap ebay refractor, which ultimately he would be disappointed with.

The best scope for a child would have to be a 6" or 8" dob. They're easy to use, easy to setup, require no batteries or power to use, and are great value for money.

Check out shops like Bintel, MyAstroShop and Andrews Communications, who all sell versions of the 6" and 8" dobs.

An example one is here: 6" dob at MyAstroShop (http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-063)

Make sure you keep asking questions!

[Miaplacidus]

Hello and welcome,

My suggestion would be first to get along to a local astro club viewing night. That way you can try out some scopes and pick a few brains at the same time.

If you haven't got binoculars, then a pair or 7x50s or 10x50s are often a very good starting tool, and useful at other times too if the interest in astronomy wanes. (That and "Australian Astronomy 2007" or a magazine subscription. These have almanacs of astro events.)

Good luck,

Brian.

[rmcpb]

My two sons, now 8 and 10, have been pushing my 8" dob around for a few years now. Its amazing just how quickly they pick it up.

So I would second Mike's suggestion of a 6 or 8" dob.

Cheers

[janoskiss]

4.5" Dob would be great for a little one. 6 or 8" for bigger kids. I'd say 4.5" for a 7 y.o. but they seem to be hard to get for reasonable cost. AZ3 mounted refractor, e.g. 80mm from http://www.aoe.com.au/refractors.html , is not too shabby either.

[mwill76]

Thanks for all the replys!

Ok so I take it from the posts so far that 'refractors' are the better option (at least in this case) over 'reflectors'?

Thanks for the links also, good to have a look at prices etc, I couldn't find many sites when I googled this afternoon!

M

[taminga16]

The "dobs" that people are referring to are actually reflector telescopes and the "dob" part is in reference to the type of mount, named after John Dobson the designer. An 8" dobsonian mounted reflector would be a great start and whilst you may feel it a little tall initially, an adjustable height observers chair would overcome any problems that your son may have. Regards Greg.
PM me when you get sorted and I will send some simple chair plans. G.

[jjjnettie]

A 6" or 8" Dob is an excellent choice for a Family Telescope.
They have a low centre of gravity so it won't get knocked over easily by enthusiatic children and the mount is simple to operate.

I love my Dob.
So do my kids.

[wavelandscott]

Okay, first things first...if possible you should get to a viewing night with a local club so that you and your child can see a few different scopes and some of their strengths and weaknesses...

I did not notice your location but there are IIS people all over and I'm sure that it would be easy to find a volunteer(s) to show you some gear if a veiwing night or club is not easy to find.

My boys are 6 and 9 and both "participate" in the hobby more or less...sometimes more, sometimes less...so I understand some of which you are going through.

There are a few different levels of telescopes...your seriousness and budget will determine at what level you should spend.

Although bemoaned and ridiculed by most of us at some time or other...for just little bit of money you can buy a "telescope" at Duck Smith's or AUS Geographic...these are basically "toys"...they are cheap but they can show you the moon...generally they are cheaply made (plastic bits etc.) but they will work...I do not recommend them...

However, for a 7 year old that is uncertain about interest or if you are on a really tight budget it is an option...that said, I would avoid them if possible.

Alternatively, you can go to a "specialized" store...again there are several scattered around the country...they will stock good "value" based gear and also some fabulous "budget busting" stuff too. Some shops are better with service/advice than others but that is a different question which you can ask about later...everyone who has ever purcahsed gear will have an opinion on this topic.

Again, a well stocked shop is a great place to see all the different makes and models and ask some questions of generally knowledgable staff. Like all "retail" shops the world over, prices for the same (or similar) gear can and do vary store to store so do look around.

What type of scope?...Until you see a few yourself (assuming from your post that you are new to all of this too) it is hard to offer much advice that is meaningful to you...Learning the terminology is a good place to start. If you search the web for articles on "Buying your first telescope" you will get some good basics. I also would recommend a subscription to Australian Sky and Telescope and/or Sky and Space (both "local" magazines available as subscription and at "better" news agents) would be a good place to start.

My brief synopsis (don't crucify me for over simplifying):

refractor - looks like a telescope...Good day or night...easy to set up and use...but, a good one costs lots of money. Small ones are good on moon and most planets but not of much use for other deep sky stuff...uses lenses

reflector-does not look like a telescope...Good at night (not day) best "value" in that you get the most "viewing power" for your money...will do plantes, moon and heaps of deep sky stuff well...Dobsonians are dead simple to use...but you need to learn how to "collimate" (it only sounds scary)...uses mirrors

SCT (and others) - looks like a mutant telescope (shorter and fatter)...can be used day or night...it is a bit of a cross between refractors and reflectors and can use lenses and mirrors (and correctors)...it is in my opinion a "compromise" scope...I've not had a lot of experience with them...probably too complicated for a 7 year old...

Hope some of this rambling makes sense...good luck and enjoy the hobby!

[ballaratdragons]

The best advice has been given. 6" - 8" Dob.

Yep, if you can get to a local Astro club, all the better.

My boys, now 11 & 14 have been using my 12" dob for 2 years and find it easy to use. They own their own 8".

Our Clubs lending sope is an 8" Dob and none of the kids have trouble using it.
Harry (11 y.o.) is in charge of it when all the kids are using it. There is even a 5 y.o. who likes looking thru it and has no difficulty. It definately isn't a toy! It shows many fine Deep Space Objects as well as the Moon and Planets.

[Blue Skies]

I'll back up the 6" or 8" dob - although I have seen a kid grab a 17.5" and push it around! A 6" would be easier to handle by himself but then he could grow into the 8", you'd just have to be prepared to give him a hand getting it outside to start with.

[janoskiss]

A 7 y.o. will be able to use a 6 or 8" Dob no probs but might struggle to move it or set it up themselves. The Dob will give better views and with some minimal assistance the best choice. But if the child will want to really own the scope and take charge of it (keep it in bedroom, take it out when they feel like it, take it over to show neighbours' kids etc) then it will need to be something smaller IMO like e.g. an AZ mounted refractor. Or if you really want to spoil them, a 5" Newt on a Vixen Porta mount - like Starklers setup - provided you are willing to (teach how to) collimate it.

[Uchtungbaby]

A pair of adjustable binoculars can be a good start. They have to be adjustable or they won't fit the half hand span of the forehead.

The Hugo Telescope at the National Geographic Shop is pretty good as well, but he will have to stand on something. I have a Hugo telescope myself. I think it includes some valuable lessons for parent and child. It is fantastic. The mirror is good. Perhaps a little too good for young eyes. The planets will probably be too bright for him, and he will find it difficult to distinguish features amidst the light.

You may notice how you see a doubling of the moon when you view it with the naked eye. Your son does not see a doubling of vision produced through the aging of the eye. He sees it crisp and clear without blur. This will not hinder his view of the moon through a telescope. However, he will find more distant objects too bright to distinguish features. This is why it is better for a child to view celestial objects during periods of atmospheric disturbance (.i.e.,smog).:)

[mwill76]

Thanks so much for all the detail you lot are putting into your post, it is very much appreciated.

I've been looking, and wondering what you actually put the dobs on? Just sit them on a table or something when in use I presume?

What about this for a first timer?

SkyWatcher SW450 Reflector EQ1/2 w/drive

114mm (4.5-inch) Newtonian on equatorial mount

Normally $399.00 - On Special: $295.00

http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-060

M

[rmcpb]

First question first, you just put the dob on the ground and use it there. You will need a chair/stool for when the eyepiece is low but the eyepiece will always be easy to get to.

Second question, I would not go for a GEM for a kid. It has to be aligned, the eyepiece can end up in some really awful positions as the scope tracks objects, they are much more complicated than a simple dob mount.

For the same money have a look at the 6" dob (http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm) here. Simpler to use and MUCH more light gathering ability.

Cheers

[janoskiss]

Last thing I'd buy is an EQ mounted scope. The light ones are way to wobbly, the sturdy ones too heavy. And they are cumbersome to set up and operate.

The only sensible choices for a child's scope are Dob mounted Newt or Alt-Az mounted refractor, small (<=5") Newt or Cassegrain IMO. The Dob will give the best views per dollar.

[mwill76]

OK I am sold on the dob now....found a store that has them for $379 on sale in Melbourne, so am happy with that price.

Now I need start up book ideas for him.

I have already purchased 'The Night Sky' by Steve Massey, although it seems a bit in depth even for my son who is an avid reader.

So where to start with basic info for him?

[mwill76]

Along with the mag subsciption AST, would the book 'Astronomy 2007- Australia' be a good starting point?

Michelle

[janoskiss]

Not for a 7 y.o. Too technical. There are astronomy guide books aimed at kids. Some members with kids should be able to point you in the right direction. Wombat_in_space?

btw. Planisphere is a must have.

[ballaratdragons]

My boys like borrowing Astronomy books from the library. Even though there are plenty of Astro books at home and at the club, they like to flick thru the pages at the library and if they like the book, they borrow it. I'd rather they choose an Astro book they are interested in rather than one I suggest.

Our library (Mobile library on Tuesday arvo's) has many Astro books aimed at kids.

If there are any he is very interested in, then you know which ones to buy :thumbsup:

[jjjnettie]

Astronomy books go out of date pretty quick, but the information in the older editions is still fairly sound.
You'll be surprised what you can pick up 2nd hand. From the Life Line Book Fest I got for my boys-
Our Solar System by Isaac Asimov
Space The New Frontier by Colin Burgess

Check out the Astronomy section in the bigger book stores and there is usually a few books there with small words and big pictures.

[MortonH]

Is your son interested in wildlife/birdwatching? The only downside of a Dob/reflector is that they aren't much use during the day, whereas a small refractor can be used on a camera tripod for any kind of viewing. Something to consider, maybe.

Morton

[mwill76]

OMG I hadn't actually realised how big the 8" dobs were until I looked at another thread that also contained pictures!

Well, that totally puts my earlier question asking if it was put on a table for viewing to shame, hahahahaha!!!!

I can now see all the pro's concerning a dob for a child now, they look excellent. Think I'm starting to get excited about the chance to star gaze as well.

I will also suggest to my son to borrow from the library and pick up books that interest him. Just need to work out 'how' to find the planets and star clusters etc, I'm sure we'll have fun trying anyway.

M

[mill]

Hi mwill76
You could download Cartes du ceil, it is an free program that will show you the night sky in realtime.
http://www.stargazing.net/astropc/
With this program it is easy to find objects (relatively :) )

[mwill76]

Thanks Mill, I will take a look at that :)

[ausastronomer]

No that is completely incorrect. With young children they need the "wow factor" at the eyepiece to keep up their interest in the hobby. In this regard the largest telescope they can comfortably handle will provide the greatest wow factor. A larger reflector will always clearly outperform a small refractor. Further a small refractor, which shows pretty dim images, on a less than stable mount will only succeed in frustrating them and driving them away from the hobby.

As some have already suggested a 6" to 8" dob would be a perfect choice. It is a telescope he will grow into, not out of.

CS-John B

[mwill76]

I wanted to update and thank all those that posted and helped in the decision making process.

We purchased an 8" skywatcher for our 7 year old budding astronomer and what can I say he is in love with the thing!!!

Haven't managed to find many objects as yet, but just the moon is amazing to look at.

Have only 10 and 25mm eye pieces- any recs on what to use to get greater detail for looking at Venus and Saturn?

[iceman]

Great news, i'm glad he likes it.

The 10mm would be ok in average seeing on Venus and Saturn (and don't forget Jupiter!!), but maybe a 6mm or 7mm would be good for the nights when the seeing is even better, giving you more magnification.

Venus and Saturn are very low in the sky at the moment - try viewing Jupiter, it's the brightest star in the East directly overhead about 8-9pm.

[snug]

Hi

Congrats on the scope. As far as books go..(my daughter 12ys..and i are absolute beginners) Initially we bought both the Steve Massey ones ('Night Sky' & 'Exploring the Moon')..

The book on the moon has become hers and she reads it each night then goes and checks things in her bino's. She uses this in conjunction with 'Virtual Moon Atlas' (free software u can download).

At dinner I will say 'Whats happening with the moon tonight' and she will give me an update and i have let her become the 'expert' in that area and judge if we will take the scope out. I know its early days but motivation is still high. Her science teacher is aware of her interest and encourages her with this...

I think astronomy its a great thing for kids to get into as it opens up so many areas for discussion and broadens her view of the world...

So again congratulations and i hope u have as much fun as us...

Snug

PS..cant help u with the eyepeice question though as im really trying to get a handle on it myself ...

[mwill76]

Thanks for that info, will go and order some lenses today.

Not knowing much about it all as yet it's very handy to get all the tips from you experts!

[mwill76]

Hi Snug, hope you and your daughter have many years of fun with your scope. I think it's the best investment we have ever made. Like you said it opens up so many different areas. My son has two astronomy books and I also have a folder that I print out the sky map for the month on from www.skymaps.com so he can see whats happening out there.

Michelle

[WadeH]

Good to follow your progress mwill76, sounds like you and your son will have a great time learning this interesting pastime we call fun.

As for lens's, I would make the first buy a 2X barlow. They are cheap and effectivly give you two lens's almost for the price of one! The 10mm becomes 5mm and the 25 becomes 12mm and so on.

[mwill76]

Any recs on which barlow to get? After looking through various threads I don't think it's necessary to go for a shorty barlow with a dob - is that correct?

Am looking at some GSO branded eyepieces and perhaps a barlow as well, $39 a piece and from the reviews I think they are not too bad of an option for beginners.

Michelle

[iceman]

Hi Michelle
The GSO 2x barlow will get you buy, but the best quality "budget" one by all reports is the Orion Shorty Plus. I think they've come down in price a bit and are pretty reasonable for good quality.

[mwill76]

Ok, thanks for the tip, had read a lot of good things about the orions, how are the GSO ep's compared to others?

M

[iceman]

The GSO's are ok for a starting eyepiece. I started out with GSO's as do most people who buy the GSO dobs (they come with the scope, so it's a given).

For the price they're ok, but they have abberations around the edges. The difference with a good quality eyepiece is a lot, but so is the price.

Get some experience observing first and try and have a look through some other people's eyepieces (at star parties, observing meets etc) so you can get a feel for the quality.

A barlow is a must though, if you buy the Orion short plus, you won't need to replace that, ever.

[mwill76]

The orion shorty seems like the one to get by the sounds of things and that should keep us going for a bit long anyway.

I don't see the point in buying cheap eyepieces only to have to replace them down the track, it's not like they wear out or anything! In saying that though I don't think budget wise (and for use mainly for a 7 year old) that we'll be spending more than $100 per ep. The Barlow is a different story though due to it's adaptability.

Thanks!

M