Where are the Aliens ?

[Bobbyoutback]

Thought I'd share this provoking article : :shrug:
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/techandscience/nasa-scientists-present-theory-about-why-we-haven-t-met-other-intelligent-life-it-s-crushing/ar-AA142Jt8?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b6285f8dd7224bbb998ff9d9cb43d1 38

Hate it to be true ?

Bobby

[Stonius]

IMHO, the reason Aliens haven't contacted us is the same reason you wouldn't give a chimp a machine gun.


Any new technology we gained from the interaction would be weaponised for us to use against each other, and probably eventually the aliens themselves. Assuming they're peaceful, there is nothing good in it for them, only a whole lot of bad.


Markus

[Bobbyoutback]

I do see your point https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxYmm5yCJBg
Scarry for sure :doh:

[leon]

There are no Aliens. :rolleyes:

Leon:thumbsup:

[xelasnave]

I find it rather tiresome that there seems to be so many scientists who indulge mere speculation and present mere guess work as credible research.

Just think about the paper ...no substance and a waste of time indulging fantasy.

Alex

[Nikolas]

That video was proven to be fake

[AdamJL]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTrFAY3LUNw

[Renato1]

"......Racism, genocide, inequity, sabotage,” the writers warn."

I'm surprised they didn't add private property to the list, and go into a chorus of John Lennon's Imagine.
Cheers,
Renato

[gb44]

<<“Dark forest theory” holds that civilizations fear one another so much that they don’t dare to reveal themselves lest they immediately be considered a potential threat and be destroyed.>>

https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/20/technologys-dark-forest/

Cixin Lui, a chinese novelist who wrote "The Three Body Problem"
has describe a few scenarios that show pretty scary reasons why aliens maybe and humans also maybe should hide. Great works of fiction. Trilogies.

GlennB

[Nikolas]

I love the fact all these so called experts and theorists look at this from the human perspective only, this is such a closed minded way of thinking of things

[gb44]

I agree completely. Humans still think they have some importance. Like they thought they were the centre of the universe.

In one passage from Lui's book an alien tasked with keeping peace in the universe awakes from its slumber because of the noisey humans and simply sends a weapon our way (a 2 dimensional trap) in order to annihilate us.

GlennB

[alpal]

I think that's a good article - it's well stated before by many writers.


There may well have been many civilisations out there
in the universe but they could have lived and died out
5 billion years ago or whenever - with no trace left behind from them.
We only exist in a brief moment in time where we have had radio
communications - 120 or so years - such a small moment compared to the
billions of years available in the universe for any other civilisation to contact us.
It was only 50 years after radio communications were discovered
that we had atomic bombs capable of wiping out our whole planet.
That doesn't bode well for any other civilisations lasting very long
as they would have discovered the same levels of destructive power.
So far the signs are not good as we have not found a way to get rid of nuclear weapons -
and then we even have biological weapons that could wipe us out too.
All advanced civilisations would face the same intractable problems
so I doubt they would last very long.
I don't think we can last very long unless some humans can get off this planet
and start civilisations on other planets - Mars being the first one.


cheers
Allan

[Boozlefoot]

I was in town this morning for my 3 weekly shopping trip.......they are amongst us as we speak........

[Bart]

I like this one better.


https://youtu.be/DJsn1QivbKM

[RyanJones]

Oh soooooo true.

[mura_gadi]

There are a few good examples of "aliens" already visiting, but they are wiped out from all the gobblegook from solo reporting...

The video from the first flight of the Concorde is a little more than reflective light imo.
The Italian soccer match is another, that's a stadium worth of people and left the broadcaster's a little confused.
The mass sighting over London, that was in the 1000's of people reporting something strange in the late 50's/early 60's.

But it does beg the question with such advanced technology required for space travel why we saw them at all. When our own technology in active camouflage technology is nearly good enough to fool most people already.

I'm on the side of species causing their own destruction well before interstellar space travel is achieved. I know there are plenty of very smart people saying it impossible, but we didn't think people could travel faster than horses only 120 years ago, and then the doubters repeated similar argument before we broke the speed of sound.

If you remove the need to have a life form onboard, the probe could with stand forces way in excess of what we currently consider feasible. But even faster than light travel is not enough, your essentially looking at quantum entanglement in a physical form. Removing any need for travel as your already there so to speak...

*Another angle is to hack the systems used to detect aliens in the first place... posted an article about a CSIRO blog under general that could be used easily used for a wide range of purposes. - "Digital invisibility cloaks outsmart smart devices"

[TES]

It seems that most people who post here pretty much see things the way I do. Life on Earth has been a continual, "move over, make room for me".
Such is evolution, that single track to gain advantage at the cost of others. Hard to believe a civilisation could arise anywhere, any other way. Plenty of reasons to believe we are at the "tipping point" well before we venture out of our solar system.

[Stonius]

The question eventually becomes about allocation of resources. Given one planet's worth of energy, would a civilisation rather use that energy to reproduce or for interstellar travel?


Given the evolutionary requirement for reproduction, and the boom and bust nature of population growth of every organism on earth, I'd say the answer is pretty self-evident.


Like any other creature, we'll reproduce until the available resources can't sustain us, then we'll die off to more managable levels, before repeating the process ad-nauseum.We're smart enough to see it happening, but not smart enough to avoid our own animal nature. As others have said, this will happen well before interstellar travel (or even sustainable interplanetary travel) is achieved. Sure, society won't collapse all the way back to neolithic times, but much will be lost, perhaps taking us back to a modern dark ages.



IOW, the evolutionary requirements for a successful organism are at odds with the requirements for a space-faring one. That's my thinking.



Markus

[mura_gadi]

"The question eventually becomes about allocation of resources. Given one planet's worth of energy, would a civilisation rather use that energy to reproduce or for interstellar travel?"

If you have interstellar travel you would have at least the solar systems worth of resources. True interstellar and you should be mining easily at under 10 light years... for food I'd guess localised inner space food farming would be available.

But as for resources, a good point, think we use our annual food budget up around OCT in the year cycle last time I read.



Steve

[Stonius]

Exactly. We're running out of fossil fuels well before we're in any position to harness the power of the solar system. Heck, we haven't even mastered other forms of energy on our own planet. We're not even at the level of a Type 1 civilisation yet.

[mura_gadi]

The US Navy patented a hydrogen system capable of hydrogen extraction from saltwater back in 2016, not only to power the massive carrier but also to run the aircraft. So, when that kicks in its really only food they will need resupplies for.


https://cleantechnica.com/2016/06/27/us-navy-hearting-renewable-hydrogen-fuel-cell-submarines/

[Stonius]

I've heard stories about these hydrogen from water systems for 15 years. They've been 'just around the corner' for so long I wonder if there is some reason why it's not as easy as it sounds, a bit like fusion energy. Obviously there are significant hurdles. Not necessarily insurmountable challenges, but there is a reason why we aren't driving hydrogen powered cars and running our homes off self-sustaining fusion reactors.

[Bobbyoutback]

Good post !
Maybe the reason is would upset the power of the US petro dollor :shrug:

Bobby

[Zuts]

Hi,

Hydrogen from water is called green hydrogen. There are already many places producing this, especially in Australia. It just takes a lot of electricity for the electrolysis. No big problem if you produce it in the outback next to a huge solar farm...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-01-23/green-hydrogen-renewable-energy-climate-emissions-explainer/13081872

[Stonius]

If I remember correctly, it is an endothermic reaction, requiring the input of energy to accomplish. So the real question becomes; where does *that energy come from?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for renewables, just trying to figure out how they can replace fossil fuels (as they inevitably will, whether we like it or not).

Markus

[Zuts]

it uses electrolysis, i.e. they pump electricity into it from the solar or wind array next door.

[TrevorW]

Okay scenario number 101, if only one intelligent life form develops in each galaxy, and the estimates among different experts vary, but an acceptable range is between 100 billion and 200 billion galaxies in the known Universe and the average distance between galaxies is about one million light years, then even at the speed of light or even Warp factor 10 it would take a very long time for any alien to reach us. So by my reasoning that is a lot of intelligent or non intelligent life forms that may exist in he known Universe, but none have the time or means to get to reach us.

[Stonius]

Okay, but why restrict it to one per galaxy, then use intergalactic distances to argue against it?

Given the plethora of extrasolar planets discovered, it's a pretty reasonable assumption that we are *not unique and exceptional.

Interstellar distances are still daunting, but perhaps not quite impossible.

Markus

[pmrid]

The long arm of coincidence strikes - I just started reading a Stephen Baxter novel “Space” which begins with the hero waxing lyrical about the Fermi Paradox. An oldie but an unresolved goodie!