WANTED used Dob

[DobDobDob]

I would like to purchase a second hand Dob, greater than 16", preferably in or near Sydney so I could try it out first.

If anyone has one in good condition, please PM me with the details.

Thanks

[jjjnettie]

How much do you wish to spend?
See Sky and Space, March/April 2007 edition, page 38.
She's one of the best scopes I've ever seen through.

[DobDobDob]

Well, I have plenty of money, so it's more a question of looking through a scope that blows my socks off and then buying it. I don't get that magazine, I get all my news from IIS :whistle:

But I'll try to come out of my cave and take a look, perhaps it's duplicated on a web page somewhere?

[Miaplacidus]

That's a 30 inch scope! You're just being cruel, JJJ.

Anyway, hands off, everybody. My numbers are gonna come up this week and that beauty is mine.

[DobDobDob]

Good one jjj :whistle: , I've got money but not an unlimited supply :rolleyes: I was thinking somewhere between 18" and say perhaps up to 24" or thereabouts, I should be able to find enough for a good one of those :thumbsup:

[jjjnettie]

This one is worth about $50,000 all up and is going for a song at $35,000.
It is a truely spendid piece of work.

[DobDobDob]

Great, I was thinking of between 2k to 6k more or less, so thanks for all your help jjj, I'll just wait :rolleyes:

[Starkler]

Just to put things in perspective for you, the 15" SDM scope im getting made right now is costing about $6.5k all up.

[DobDobDob]

Thanks, I am after a used scope however not a new one, so there should be some margin for manoeuvrability. I know that the 16" Meade goes for 3k and the Andrews 16" GSO will go for 2.5k, both new of course, so doubling the new price should get me something larger second hand, at least that's my logic. Your SDM scope will no doubt be totally awesome (judging from a quick look on a few web pages), and at some time in the future I will no doubt upgrade again to a better 'Manufacturer', but for now I am happy to have a pre loved unit, that will fit into my budget.

[jjjnettie]

Good luck with your search Ron.
I'm sure it won't be long before you find just the one you want.

[janoskiss]

Ron, I understand your reasoning and saw your other thread on this too, but I don't think it works that way...

The way I see it is that these 16" scopes are mass produced on the cheap and they are probably the biggest scope that can still be produced that way. They are basically cheap light buckets and will have the shortcomings of mass produced scopes, only more so than others because of the sheer size & weight. The 12" Lightbridge base and truss seems adequate but only so so. Now, I'd reckon that the 16" using the same construction materials and mount design will be barely there ito stability of mount, collimation etc. And plate glass mirror for 16" will usually guarantee inadequate optics (even if we assume good figuring of the parabolic surface) for high power planetary viewing - unless you are very patient and careful in setting up an effective cooling system (big glass like that is liable to dew up by the time it's properly cooled). It would probably be an okay scope for low power deep sky but that's all one can realistically expect.

In any case, if you want anything bigger it will need to be custom or semi-custom built, and done properly. Mirror will have to be ground by an expert mirror maker from expensive low thermal expansion glass. The rest of the scope will also need to be much better made than the cheap Dobs from Meade/GSO if you want usability, stability, and good performance on a wide variety of targets from low to high power.

I recommend you go to a few star parties and look at, thru, and get a feel for as many scopes as you can. Once you get a bit of hands and eyes on experience, you will really appreciate where the money goes with well built big dobs.

If I had the cash to splash, I'd much rather go for a somewhat smaller scope that is well built and joy to use than a larger one that is just so so and frustrating.

But if you just want large aperture on the cheap then one of the new 16" GSO/Meade offerings might be your best bet. I'd say go the LB from Bintel and make the most of their after-sales service till you got the scope set up the way you like it.

Just my opinion and just trying to be helpful. :)

[DobDobDob]

Thanks Steve,

Very good advice indeed and I appreciate it. I have a 6" refractor which is baby sitting me at the moment, so I am not in a screaming hurry, but then again....I'm not getting any younger either :P

I have a catch 22 situation in that I make good money as long as I work crazy and long hours, this means I can go buy a scope but can't go to Star Parties or even regular observing nights with my society. I'm sort of stuck :rolleyes:

I looked through a blokes 10" Dob last month, for a minute and could instantly see that I am wasting my time with a 6". My tiny brain tells me that I need bigger, so I was hoping that someone had a telescope that matched me and they were no longer using it as much because of the size. I am still quite strong and able bodied but I realise someone perhaps 10 to 20 years older than me would have Buckley's using their 16", 18" or 20" Dob.

I fully appreciate your comments regarding custom built and mass produced, I take it on board and really honestly agree. I still maintain that there could be a privately made, high quality scope, under a tarpaulin in someone's garage that has not been used in quite a while, and despite it may have cost considerably more, they might consider 4K to 5K not so much for the money (not to be sneezed at), but more so the scope went to a good home.

Despite owing a 6" refractor, I am sorry but I don't consider this as a 'real' scope, it was something to ease me in. I do consider the Dob I am trying to buy as my first 'real' scope and to be honest fully expect to sell it in a couple of years to upgrade when I know more about them from personal use.

I can't gain the experience I crave and need from my 6" as good as it is for what it is. My real learning curve will begin when I get the Dob, It certainly won't be the last scope I ever get, I wouldn't imagine.

Putting my top end of what I would want to spend at about 5k because it's a nice neat amount, I 'Honestly' believe that is more than enough for my first real telescope. I didn't pay for the 6" refractor so that doesn't count.

Spending 5k for a first scope seems more than fair to me, and wanting the biggest and best I can possibly get for my buck, might not seem practical but it certainly is normal :P

Assuming I get something reasonably good I can use it for a couple of years, learn the sky develop my own tastes and then think about something more expensive and more permanent. Spending 20K to 30K is from all I have read and my own instincts, a silly thing to do straight up as a rank beginner.

So there you have it, I am not in a hurry but I am by nature impatient, I don't expect the Earth but would like the best telescope I could get within my budget. The factor that the telescope is used has not been mentioned in this or the other thread and it makes me wonder if the same rules of buying and selling that apply in the real world also apply in the astronomy world.

For example, drive a 40k car out the drive way and once around the block and go back and try to sell it you would be lucky to get 20k, 25k if the dealer felt sorry for you.

There is by-and-large a natural reduction in price (quality notwithstanding) from used to new goods, however in astronomy, so far as I can tell, the price of largish Dobs anyway, doesn't seem to come down. Is this a fair summation or is it that dob owners are particularly resistant to sell their telescopes or are they unreasonable in their estimation of their equipments worth?

It is interesting to me how this works, anyway, once again thank you for your very well worded advice, I am going to heed it. In saying that I will need to do a little research on who makes the best mirrors, who grinds them well and so on. I assume this will be a little difficult to get the actual truth because a good deal of marketing hype and rhetoric may well abound, as usually does in other industries.

Back to the old drawing board I guess. It might even pay to schedule some holidays (I don't get holidays, I work for myself), to coincide with a Star Party, because from all I have read, seen (photo's) and heard, they are the place to go and see the widest range of gear, working all at the same time, so this would be good for comparative purposes.

Once again thanks. :thumbsup:

[iceman]

Come to Kulnura on the 19th, Ron! Look through some large and small dobs. Rod's 20" will be there.

[DobDobDob]

Thanks Mike, a very nice offer and one that I would certainly take up if I could. I have contracts with different agencies in the Racing Industry that require me to work on Friday and Saturday nights specifically. This is good for me personally but a shocker from an observing point of view. I don't even go to observing nights with my own Society because they have observing nights on Saturday's.

On a side note, I am working towards a culture of Sunday night observing, however that will only suit a small number of people that do not have to get up early on a Monday morning to go to work. :P

[janoskiss]

Yes, for that sort of money, if you are willing to wait some nice big scopes pop up from time to time. Keep an eye on ebay. Amongst all the junk there is the rare treasure.

[DobDobDob]

Thanks again Steve, Mike...waiting seems to be the name of the game, as well as being in the right place at the right time :P you certainly couldn't ask for or expect better advice from the moderators of this fantastic forum. :thumbsup:

[wavelandscott]

While this discussion might be better suited in the another area (equipment, general etc.) and while I thought that comments were suppossed to be limited in this particular area, I'll add my comments anyway...

A quality well cared for telescope may not "devalue" or depraciate like a car (or other consumable good) as it does not necessarily get "consumed" through use...there is no reason that a well crafted and cared for optical system could not be or should not be valued as much or higher than contemparary bits of gear (or the price it was when it was made). If I take care of my Pentax/Nagler eyepieces they should last a lifetime...yes, they may be displaced by newer/better technology or coatings and lose relative value but, the eyepiece itself (assuming appropriate care is used) should last and perform the same tomorrow as it does today...so I am not sure that the "age" of a quality dob (or other telescope) will reduce it's cost...

Yes, you may find an astronomy widow who does not know the value of the gear her deceased spouse left under the tarp in the garage who will sell a quality piece of gear for a great price but I am not sure that you will find that at IIS...maybe E-bay is a better shoppinig site for that...

If your strategy is to "jump in" with a big scope and then trade up in a few years time I would introduce you to the "Lightbridge" (or future GSO scopes)...I think they are /will be well suited for what you want to do...gain experience and then splash out on a top end machine...

But having said that, over a lifetime what is the real cost of getting a high quality custom made scope now?...If you keep it and use it 20 years won't you be ahead in enjoyment by getting it now?

Just my thoughts...good luck!

[DobDobDob]

Thanks Wavelandscott, you are correct in this thread has shifted away from the traditional 'Wanted' thread. What has been said however by all is pretty powerful stuff and might well be used by others also reading along.

If the moderators wish to move the thread or parts of it, or rename in and place it in a better section, I am sure they will, they do a tremendous job on this forum.

[Starkler]

Its always hit and miss the way astro items come up for sale timing wise and thats the luck of the draw. I must say I have not seen many second hand large dobs at all in the marketplace, but who knows you might strike it lucky and I wish you the best of luck in finding the right scope.

It also seems that prices for big ticket items can vary a lot depending on how desperate the seller is to sell. It seems that large sct's can commonly be had for good prices.

I looked and didn't find anything second hand that was suitable. My choices were to build one myself, order and import an obsession, or get Peter Read (SDM) to build one for me. I decided on the latter, and knowing exactly what I want, I'm getting my dream scope custom built to my spec using the best of everything :D

As you indicate you want a big scope and still call yourself a beginner, I would also suggest going for the lightbridge, as even if you don't like it or want to upgrade in future, you should be able to sell it as it will be a "known quantity" in the marketplace.

[DobDobDob]

Thanks again Geoff :D :thumbsup:

[nightsky]

G'Day,
As the discussion has not been moved into the "Equipment Thread" I would like to add my comments regarding buying a "Used DOB" I agree with most of what has been said so far and in particular the comment made by "Wavelandscott " and I quote in part:
"A quality well cared for telescope may not "devalue" or depraciate like a car (or other consumable good) as it does not necessarily get "consumed" through use...there is no reason that a well crafted and cared for optical system could not be or should not be valued as much or higher than contemparary bits of gear (or the price it was when it was made). If I take care of my Pentax/Nagler eyepieces they should last a lifetime...yes, they may be displaced by newer/better technology or coatings and lose relative value but, the eyepiece itself (assuming appropriate care is used) should last and perform the same tomorrow as it does today...so I am not sure that the "age" of a quality dob (or other telescope) will reduce it's cost"
In my case I imported my 18" DOB "Truss" scope from the USA and although I would never expect to recover the cost of shipping,customs duty, exchange rate etc: I would not be selling it as in a "Fire sale" I've looked after the scope well and it has been well stored as has my Nagler eyepieces.Just because it's now 17 yrs old or young :P it's still as good as the day I received it, and was not "mass produced" like some of the DOB's are today and was 3 months in the making,testing etc before shipping. Now that I've finished my Observatory I will have the time to assemble it and put it up for sale and be able to show anyone who would be interested in buying it. My point is this,no Telescope (Goto's excepted because of the computer inside) do not have a "Use by Date" if they have been looked after and cared for. As others have said in this forum if you have the money,and you have said as much,then get yourself a scope that will last you for years to come. I wish you luck in finding a scope that will give you many many years of viewing be it a used or new one ;) .
Cheers
Arthur
P.S. The scope has only been used a few times since I stopped going to Ilford back in late 1994.and has not be stored under a " tarpaulin " :)

[DobDobDob]

Thank you Nightsky, yes you also make a lot of sense, and it seems that everybody is now in agreement that the better quality telescopes simply retain their value providing they are maintained in optimum condition.

I was wrong in my earlier assumption that paralleled an automobile losing it's value being used. This was an erroneous assumption, I see that now and fully accept the valid and eloquent reasons why that is so.

I have benefited from this thread, perhaps saved a lot of money in the long term, in not having to continually turn over more and more scopes. I feel that buying the right one in the first place (budget notwithstanding), will be a far smarter move.

If you do decide to sell yours and have some sort of price in mind, please by all means PM me, but I don't want to place an unnecessary pressure on you. I'm amazed that you have had it so long and that it is still is such great condition, it's a credit to you :thumbsup:

[wavelandscott]

My comments were not meant to say that you can't or won't find a good deal on a used big mirrored dob...you might and it is worth looking for if that is what you want...

I did in fact purchase my 12.5 inch Discovery second hand at what I felt at the time was a "fair" price for what it is and what was included in the transation.

Be sure to check out the Lightbridge, I had a quick peek through the one at SPSP and for what it is, my first impression was that it was a pretty reasonable value (cost effective big mirror)...the "Holden" of telescopes...

Best Of Luck!

[DobDobDob]

Great Wavelandscott, I am hoping for some good fortune similar to you. Also this thread has now been moved away from the wanted forum and more appropriately placed in the equipment forum.

The advice given below by many members should be available long term for all future people who are considering buying second hand equipment, this thread has highlighted some of the important factors, particularly the quality of the scope.

Of course I am still looking on a personal note, but very happy that a thread now exists where others may benefit.

Sincerely yours.