Solar wannabe!

[csb]

Hi

I have had a telescope for 2 years now and have decided that solar viewing would be more to my liking. My lifestyle and work would be more suitable for a daytime hobby.

I have researched and researched on the web only and have decided on 3 options.

1)SolarMax 40 filter - attached to my Celestron C6 SCT.
It seems that with the SCT I will need an adapter plate and also the focal length (1500mm) seems to mean there will be an extra cost for a suitable BF.

So maybe it will be better to get a 500-800mm x 60-80mm refractor and sell the SCT.

I got the SCT because it is a small scope and very portable. Actually it replaced a 6" newt which was too cumbersome - my house is situated on the side of a gully and the land is stepped over 5 levels.

2) Coronado PST double stacked - $2200 from Bintel.

But this doesn't have the freedom of a scope with a SolarMax40 filter attached - more eyepiece options - binoviewer, more imaging options, scope can still be used at night (night doesn't hold as much fascination as the sun for me though).

3) Coronado PST - but I think/know that I will want more/bigger/better.

I am fairly decided on getting the SM filter and so here I need some advice on the scope. Is the Celestron C6 SCT suitable? Would be better to get a refractor?

I have read that some refractors are not suitable due to the coatings on the lens(es) interferring with the Ha filter's performance ability - there is loss to image quality. This sounded very plausible.

Thanks Craig

[rumples riot]

You might want to consider getting the double stacked version of the SM. Single stacked coronado stuff is less than spectacular. I think though you would be better served by getting a ed80 scope with the double stacked SM40. You will find more enjoyment in the long run. I have a double stacked PST and I am very happy with it. I will eventually move up to a day star filter when solar max starts to proceed.

I have not heard anything about coatings of some refractors affecting performance of filters in Ha light though.

This is one of the most costly parts of the hobby and I would suggest thinking long and hard about your choice. I can recommend the doublestacked PST, but it is not a much fun for observing as it is for imaging.

Best of luck with your choice.

[iceman]

Hi Craig

Is your interest in purely observing or astrophotography or both?

As Paul says, solar gear ain't cheap! But it looks like it can be a very rewarding part of the hobby. I don't see enough sunlight to go down that track!

[[1ponders]]

I finally got to try out my double stack pst for the first time today (so much for the sunshine state :rolleyes: ). While the PST was good in it's native state and I enjoy looking through it and getting my first few images (a coupld of months ago now. ) I was amazed how much more detail I could see with the double stack. I can't wait to try it with a camera attached.

But as said above, it is not a cheap part of the hobby. I am hooked but it will be a couple of years I think before I can afford to go up to a double stacked 60mm. MMmmmmm aperture. :love:

[csb]

Thanks all.
Hmm, now I am encouraged to get the PST Doublestacked.

I look forward for when I get my first view of the sun but I really love the images people
have posted on the Net.

I like tinkering with imaging ; I have the Celestia computer galaxy model which I adjust and
test to my liking. So I think that imaging will be a big part of my solar viewing.

And this is another reason to take up solar over cosmic(?) astronomy - it seems imaging is
much, much cheaper for solar viewing.

I don't need an expensive tripod, tracking system, focussing system. It even seems that the
actual scope quality isn't such a vital factor - a good basic scope will do great.

And the imaging equipment is again seemingly not such an expense, cheap or expensive cameras
both give great shots.

The filter seems to be the only costly part of the hobby.
Am I correct in all my assumptions?

After viewing many images taken through various 40mm H-alpha setups, I wonder can anyone
viewing the nighttime cosmos get equally amazing, jawdropping and detailed views for less
than $3000 dollars, at the lense or with a camera.

The quality of some of the solar shots using a hand-held camera is very good, don't you
think?

Ps What is involved in fitting an SM 40 to my SCT (as mentioned above)? I need to decide to
keep ar get a refractor.

[rumples riot]

I think you will need a DMK as a basic model camera. The toucam will not get enough detail out to be of value. I initially tried using it and it was hopeless at picking up detail.

Having a mount is almost imperative for doing high res solar imaging. Without it you will not be able to image.

For the SCT you will need an adapter and a decent barlow to get the scope up to the required f30. Without it the scope cannot be used. Too much radiation will pass the blocking filter and damage to your eyes or equipment will occur.

[csb]

Thanks Paul

Especially for the link to your images. All beautiful. The solar shots are astounding.

I just want to verify that you took your solar images viewing only through a PST stacked with the 2.5x Powermate barlow.

Does the DMK help with the magnification or just image quality?

I had read that the image stayed full disc no matter what the magnification. I suppose the barlow changes the f ratio.

In my last post I meant that you can get away without having top $ equipment to get fantastic views, including that a good sturdy tripod will do.

Yes, I think that the SCT will be replaced. But why do you say that f30 is required. I haven't read this anyware for Solarmax filters. Their own scope packages aren't f30.

Still deciding between PST stacked (and later add a refractor + BF10) or refractor + SM40 (later to be stacked). Although with especial thanks to your help, I can now decide this by how much I want to initially spend on starting up (first option is the cheaper start).

WHy did you decide on the Powermate barlow?

Did you get it just for the PST?

Does it perform better than single lense 2X barlow?

Would a single lens 2x barlow also give close-ups? (I am prepared to spend on that particular barlow because your images are what I would like to capture)?

So, good to see all the rain wasn't it? My lawns were "instantly" green.

Thanks Craig

[ballaratdragons]

May I suggest the ED80.

It is a very very good scope for solar viewing and imaging, and you still get to use it as a telescope at night (or day) which you can't do with a PST.

The solar filters for the ED80 are a lot cheaper than for the 6" SCT too.

The solar filter that fits the ED80 is the one for the ETX 105. It fits perfectly onto the Dew shield of the ED80 :thumbsup:

[csb]

Well b'dragon

You're up late. Clear skies?

Thanks, that is what I was leaning towards. Is this your setup?

Is what I have seen posted on the Net, especially Rumples site, the same as what I will see when I look in the scope - coulor and detail?

Craig

[rumples riot]

Craig,

Yes all but the mercury images were taken through my PST and barlow or without.

The DMK is equivelent to a 6mm eyepiece for your purposes.

Yes you can get away without having to buy more, but you will struggle. A tripod is fine, but a mount is better.

Most solar scope packages require the scope to be around f30. I think this is the same for the solar max range too. When you buy the kit they have in the instructions the designated focal ratio that you scope has to work at. This is simply sorted by have a barlow to increase the f ratio. You must use a barlow is they say to use one. There are no second chances with solar viewing.

The powermate was the only thing that would come to focus. The normal barlows I have would not come to focus. I also had to cut the eyepiece adapter down too. There is not much back focus with the PST, which can be problematic if you want to try and image with a DSLR.

I already owned the powermate, and used it on the suggestion of Mike at Bintel. I had tried the barlows I had but did not think that the powermate would be any different. The optical path is the reason why they come to focus. It is just the way the glass elements are in order that allow focus.

Let me knwo if you have anymore questions.

[csb]

Paul

I have compared your images with others posted on the Net and I am amazed at the detail and clarity/resolution(?) of yours.

Against other PST doublestacked, your images are the clear winner.

Against the SM40 filter, your images are usually better.

Anyway, it's the PST stacked to start me off.

And a good mount. (Tripod and mount are different. OK, I understand)

Then I need the Powermate.

Then a good quality camera - DMk is certainly good

Thanks Craig

[rumples riot]

Glad to be of help.

[ballaratdragons]

I'm always up late, and no, Cloud again.



Yes, I use an ED80 and ETX 105 solar filter.

[maksutover]

Hey guys

Just to add to this discussion, im very close in buying a PST. Could someone explain why most of you are talking about adding solar filters to refractors like ED80 istead of the PST unit?
ALso is the PST a wise choice for someone who wants to view solar features with no fuss and maybe some imaging later? :)

Cheers.

[csb]

Hi Mak

OK, as you should realise all my knowledge is only from research over several weeks, 99% web-based, but here is my take (and why I choose the PST).

First - very basically the angstrom (A) rating refers to how narrow the unfiltered light bandwidth is - with solar viewing, the narrower the Ha bandwidth is, the more detail that can be seen. H-alpha filters (for solar viewing, there are other astronomy Ha filters) allow only a very narrow bandwidth of red light, blocking the brighter emisions, and thus we see the surface detail and prominences.

The PST has one Ha filter built in but it is only at < 1.0A (Angstrom)

The SM 40 can be added to your own scope and is rated <0.7A - you can see more surface detail.

Both have an adjustment wheel so you can widen/narrow the bandwidth slightly to focus on prominces (wide setting) or surface detail 9(narrower). You CAN see both at same time though.

Both show prominences very well. The SM40 shows surface detail better.

Doublestacking the PST allows you to tune both filters so the bandwidth can be ranged from <1.0A to 0.5A - VERY good.

The 2nd filter on the PST is just a SM40 but without the Blocking Filter (BF) as it already has one - you don't need 2 BF's.

You can doublestack on your own scope, ie 2x SM40, for even narrower bandwidth.

When you buy the SM40 (it will come with a seperate BF - all Ha filters must be used with a BF to stop things from heating up) then you can attach it to your choice of scope - usually/always you need an adapter plate.

The advantage of this is that you then are only restricted by your scopes own limitations as to magnifications, eyepieces, barlows, imaging equipment. But SM40 filter alone is more expensive than PST.

The PST suffers from more restrictive limits with regard to accessories, especially back-focus. It suffers from not being able to get to full focus when using CCD/webcams to image (but this can be solved though).

For imaging with PST there are still many options but you may need to do testing (although there is much published on forums as to what works well). Some have to modify the camera, others have to use a barlow (some barlows filt better than others and some need adaptions). It all appears to be usually simple stuff (which is why I have decided on the PST).

If you aren't doing imaging then no mods are really necessary to get the good stuff and you don't need the barlow.

I will be getting :

PST doublestacked -------- 2200
TV Powermate2.5x barlow --- 300 (still to do more research on barlows)
DMK camera ---------------- 600
EQ4 mount -alreay have one - 300
---------------------TOTAL $3400

Seems very cheap for the amazing images you can capture. As I have said I doubt you can get better looks at nighttime stuff without spending a lot more or going bigger. AND what you capture is also what you can actually see with your own eyes looking through the scope.
:eyepop:

You can get away with a cheaper camera - but have a look at the link provided by Rumples and see the quality of his 2 solar pics (using DMK), then compare with what is shown at Coronado's massive image gallery (& other places).

http://www.coronadofilters.com/QuickGal/index.php

All are great, Rumples are clearer, don't you think?

Also in the gallery, compare the PST with the SM40 images, not much difference, if any (although depends on skill and imaging equipment).

Later I may add an ED80 refractor - depending how the urges go.

Who will you buy your PST from?

Will you get doublestacked? You can stack it later on.

I hope this helps. I hope (although I am pretty sure) that what I have written is correct.

Craig

[[1ponders]]

All true Craig, but in case you aren't aware of it, if you put an SM40 filter on an Orion ED80 then your resolving power is that of the 40mm filter, not the ED80. You have effectively "stopped" down your scope. In that situation you will not resolve any more detail than would be resolved with either a PST or Solarmax 40. Basically you won't be able to get the same clarity at higher magnifications as you would with the unfiltered ED80.

Even in solar viewing - aperture is King.

Solarmax 90 Double Stack ....MMMmmmmmm :love:

[csb]

Ah! Thanks 1p, that clarified that issue for me.

So a SM40 on a 80mm won't really be much advantage (if any) over a PST (esp DS). Just can get higher mag but with an object this close and this huge that is a minor issue, I think.

Also is the visual image much dimmer with DS than single? Is it a bit too dim?

The shop I am ordering from suggested the 2nd filter won't help, due to dimmness, unless imaging - which I intemd to do anyway.

Also do you have a solution for the issue of using a cam in the PST (re: back focus)?

Craig

[ballaratdragons]

Coz I already had the ED80 and was given the Solar Filter. :lol:
Plus I can't afford a PST and wouldn't get one if I could. I can't justify (to myself, nothing against the product) spending that much on a scope that ONLY looks at the Sun. I'd rather spend that kind of money on a better camera :)

But thats me, and everyone to their own :thumbsup:

[[1ponders]]

The view is much dimmer using the double stack, but boy I found the increase in feature definition well worth it. I had the same problem as RR with getting focus (using a DMK21AS04.AS) so I used one of these adapters http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-278 (won't fit a ToUcam, only a webcam with a C/CS thread) and ground the shoulder down at the thread end. Worked like a charm (after removing the screw on CS fitting).

The trick is to try to get the chip as close to the scope as you can. Some webcams have the chip set a fair way back.

Another way to get around it is to screw the lens of a barlow and screw it into the adapter. You get a slight magnification factor (not 2X) and you will probably be able to get to focus. I could using a generic Celestron 2X omni barlow and a standard ToUcam and adapter.

[rumples riot]

You wouldn't say that if you had a double stacked one Ken. :-)

Yes the image is dim Craig with the DS filter but your eyes becoem accustomed very quickly and you can see more detail visually. The shop you are buying from is obviously not keen to sell you the filter. Which is strange.

With the back focus issue, you need to get the camera as close to the EP adapter as possible. Meaning that the body fo the camera must be firm against the EP adapter. I did this by cutting down the C mount. A toucam mount is ok and will not need cutting down. However a C mount for the DMK will need modification.

[maksutover]

Hey does anyone have any experience with the cemax eyepieces? Im considering getting one from telescope-astronomy along with my PST. i was thinking the 12 or 18mm.

Advice PLEASE :) .

[MikeyB]

I've got the set of 3 Cemax's and the Barlow. They're certainly very good and really look the part alongside a Coronado scope, but in my judgement they're probably not worth the premium asked in comparison to good quality Plossls.

I guess the 12mm would be my preference for a single eyepiece, but personally, I find a zoom much more usable with the PST than fixed eyepieces.

[csb]

Hey, that's good news. I've already got a 7mm-21mm zoom.

It's great for the moon and star clusters.

Many posts/reviews I've read say the cemax aren't any great advantage.

[maksutover]

Cool. I dont have a Zoom anyway, itll be a nice addition to the collection.

[UniPol]

I bought a second hand set of Cemax eyepieces off Astromart which cost around half the new price here in Australia. They are like new and as Michael said, they certainly look the part on the respective Coronado's. I have tried any number of eyepieces on my Solarmax40 along with the Cemax eyepieces and they all seem to perform equally well, the most important thing to my mind is eye relief as I wear spectacles. The 18mm Cemax is my favourite and works very well with the 2X barlow which came with the set. An excellent feature of the Cemax eyepieces is the ring groove which the rubber eyecup is attached to. My ScopeTronix Digi-T adaptor attaches to this groove via three grub screws which in turn screws into your standard camera T adaptor. This is a very quick and easy way to take pics. My Solarmax40 has the BF10 filter which is really meant more for imaging but nonetheless is OK visually. As an aside, they work very well on the moon and planets through my other scopes, seemingly displaying better contrast than I remember on some of my other eyepieces. They work very well on my PST as well, great little scope, everyone should get one if they can.

[csb]

Maksutover, what price is T-A charging?

I didn't notice he sold Coronado - don't know how, the banner is big enough.

His business is small, operating from his house with a storehouse situated somewhere else. His house sits on a hill with a big open sky out the back - very roomy and little obstruction.

I bought a pipelight collimator from him, he's a good helpful fellow.

Craig

[maksutover]

Hey craig

yea T-A does sell em, i emailed him recently and was told its $800 for the scope (with no case or tripod) and about $30 ish for the delivery to sydney. Ive checked bintel and even andrews comm and there both ~950.
They dont have any in stock yet but the next shipment from the states is coming in about 2-3weeks.