No market for second hand Gear

[TrevorW]

I've given up on trying to sell near knew gear or hardly used even at prices well below replacement, it seems that people are no longer interested in paying reasonable prices for something, they expect you to give it away. :shrug:



Does anyone feel the same, how has your experience been when trying to sell something second hand.:confused2:


I recently tried selling a perfectly good near new scope at a $1000 under replacement and had no takers, it been advertised twice viewed by hundreds but not one person interested, did I buy the lemon of the market ,so will have to donate it to the local high school or will they reject it as well :lol:

[xelasnave]

Price is what determines if something will sell most times.

And think about supply and demand...it would seem the supply is very high but as one could expect because of the weather demand is low.

You mention $1000 below replacement..if you are talking about a $10000 scope that is not a big reduction..if you are talking about a $1500 scope well that is a big reduction...

What did you pay? How long ago? What are you asking for?

I see many adds where the asking price seems most unreasonable with the seller exhibiting an attitude that they simply cant lose a cent and do not factor in they have had good use out of the item being sold...others are offered at a fair price and mostly they seem to sell.

From my experience in Real Estate sales if a property was over priced the vendor would not see much traffic and never get an offer.

You need to be priced to sell as someone buying second hand is looking to save money and get a bargain.
Alex

[astroron]

I sell at around 50% of new value and so far I have had no quibbles.
I go on line,see the price and divide it by 2.
It works for me.:)
A friend said to me a few weeks ago
Something is only worth as much as what someone is willing
to pay.
Cheers:thumbsup:

[Hans Tucker]

If it is a brand name like Takahashi or Astro-Physics you can get more than what you paid for it initially ... well OTA's. The US customers pay more than original price on second hand Astro-Physics gear.

[raymo]

Trevor, I think that there are a number of factors involved in buying and selling used gear. If it is gear worth more than a few hundred dollars, the
question of warranty arises, and not all warranties are transferable.
Some people will have had poor experiences with inaccurately described
gear, leading them to be a bit apprehensive.
We are a small community, which obviously means fewer people looking for what you are selling. Maybe several items similar to your offering have been sold here recently, so nobody else needs one right now.
Some people prefer to buy new rather than save 10 or 15% on an as new object that just might not be as described.
Of course there are people looking for something at a giveaway price, as
already mentioned.
Some members prefer to buy from long time members with a proven track record of good transactions.
Some items are widely used and popular, and regularly fetch a decent price, while some less widely used items struggle to fetch a good price
due to lack of info on how they perform, after sale service, etc.
raymo

[Merlin66]

Just to add to the pertinent comments...
I've tried on numerous occasions to "donate" scientific instruments, including telescopes to local schools.......with no or very limited success.
They don't seem to want books either!!!


One issue I think is they don't have the experienced "scientific" staff and no-one to "look after and use the stuff safely"
They will take iPads!

[Peter Ward]

Ditto.

Supply and demand very much applies. You cannot get a new FSQ106 from
Takahashi under 12 months at present. Anything AP have even longer wait times.

Most ROC manufactured stuff is in plentiful supply, hence the price hit when you try to sell on the used market.

The Oz Astro market is also miniscule compared to the USA, Europe or Japan so the response here can be sadly disappointing.

[TrevorW]

OK the item was $2500 new, not even six months old, - as to donate to a school if its a no goer I'll have my gear cremated with me :)

[xelasnave]

I dont like buying second hand because you really dont know if there is a problem and if there is it is just too bad..things can go wrong and when they do it is good to be able to take it up with the vendor..Bintel for example..I bought my EQ8R second hand because I did not want to wait until next May for a new one, but I negotiated to have it delivered and that I pay after inspection...and did the same with a zwo 2600 one shot colour camera.

There is no way I would send off money and wait for the goods... that is just asking for trouble...and generally if folk are conned they dont say a thing so one never knows how many sour deals are done.


Lets face it no one will run out and say I bought a scope and it was as nothing like the guy said and I have been dudded real bad.

And dropping 10% or 15% is not doing much of a favour considering retail price includes 10% GST ... Who wants to risk so much just to save 15%...it is a very short sited approach...
As for paying more than retail for fancy scopes..they are already over the top price wise and by paying that you are crazy let along paying higher than retail...and so many of these folk who swear by a fancy scope I suspect dont have eyes good enough to tell...people say its paying for a name..I say it is paying for your stupidity.

Alex

[JA]

Hi Trevor,

Well given that you mentioned your advert was at $1000 less than new, that puts your scope at a used price of 60% of new, which seems a very reasonable place to start advertising. Perhaps there were too many others or too many other competitive options on the market at the time, not enough buyers, not enough sight of your advert, etc....

Best
JA

[Zuts]

Hi,

I noticed you are from WA. That may also sometimes be an issue due to distance, freight costs and potentially bumpy roads..., I am happier waiting and buying stuff from N.S.W and maybe VIC ...

[xelasnave]

Trevor I can't even see your add..is it there?
Is it the f4?
Alex

[TrevorW]

It was Alex, I took it down now, but no loss I wasn't just referring to astro gear everyone seems to want new or for nearly pay next to nothing, somethings you can't even give away :)

[xelasnave]

I would put it up again.
The EQ8R I purchased came up in a conversation I was having with the vendor if a camera. He had advertised it but at that time I was not in the market and did not even read the add...so no response he gives up ...lucky for both of us we were having a chat and he mentioned it for the previous week I called suppliers, followed up an old EQ8, etc...
AND I know a chat who could/ should buy it who I will PM but please put the add up again...lets be positive.
Alex

[Stonius]

I guess they would have to have an interested teacher who has the time and inclination to organise an extra-curricular activity for the kids with permission slips after hours (or daytime limited to solar viewing). Most teachers I know are overworked and undervalued and wouldn't have time for that sort of thing.


it's sad because these experiences could be something that sparks a lifetime interest in STEM for some little pupating pupil.


Markus

[Pepper]

Personally I love buying second hand stuff.
I’ve bought lots of gear of a few forum members and have always found the items as described and delivered with no fuss.
I’ve also bought lots of brand new stuff aswell.
It’s swings and roundabouts with secondhand gear. Sometimes it may not sell, other times you might pm about an item 10 min after it was posted and your already 10th in line.
Zwo stuff is like the latter at the moment.

[Top_oz]

So the ad that's supporting this argument is for the telescope with no description other than to say Perth buyers only?

[Tropo-Bob]

IMO, there is a good market for quality EPs and apo refractors. I expect to take a larger loss when selling most other gear.

[Nikolas]

the issue is more your location, the scope may have been reasonable but Perth is a small market, and postage to the other states kills the deal.

[pgc hunter]

Lot of stuff recently has been overpriced, and/or selling only marginally below new price. Ofcourse the classifieds have been slow to dead.

A lot of my gear has been bought second hand, before this stupid "excuse for everything" virus, when most second hand products were priced sensibly.

[LewisM]

It's gotten to the point where several of us have an informal trading/selling circle (mainly Tak stuff) of contacts and we keep it within that. No one tries to low ball, no one sends insulting offers.

[pgc hunter]

I've purchased new items in the last year from the US and UK that I've not only gotten far cheaper landed to my door than had I bought locally, but at similar prices to those asked for similar items in the classifieds.

[Rainmaker]

Something like a 10” F4 truss Newtonian is going to have a much smaller demand due to the fact it requires a buyer with:
1. Imaging as their main pursuit
2. hefty mount
3. ability to lift it onto the mount
4. Observatory?
Also there is the cost of freighting such a scope thousands of kilometres unless one lives in Perth……

Now if Trevor had been advertising a 4” refractor for 60% of new price….

[xelasnave]

There must be someone reading this thread who sees a fantastic opportunity and buys this scope and saves a bundle.
I must say I am very tempted but the reason I dont buy it is the same reason as Trevor is selling..too many scopes.
AND Matt is correct in my view. There is a new wave of astro photographers appearing it seems due to ZWOs cameras and Asiair and small refractors, Red Cat an obvious favorite.
Alex

[Hemi]

I think if an attractive item is priced “fairly” it would sell.

Astro equipment is often expensive, saving 10% (or even 20%) is not enough to justify the risks over buying new.

I won’t buy anything used unless it’s 25-50% off, unless it’s a difficult to obtain item.

I also think that some people fail or don’t want to consider that we are in a global market. Astro is so small in Australia that you have to consider purchasing from overseas. Once you start buying stuff not available here from overseas, you start buying stuff that is, because it can be much cheaper.

There’s an EP in the classifieds that’s about $75 cheaper than Australian vendor retail prices, but almost the same price as new shipped from the US. It’s a lose, lose. I’d rather pay the extra locally for new and risk free, or save $75 for new from overseas.

Of course ideally I would buy the ep for 25% off US retail, but that might be considered “a low ball” offer. I rarely make offers or buy from the classified now.

[alpal]

I would consider selling my equipment if I could get a reasonable price.
I am just not using it -
I haven't used it for 4 years.
It is a big job to set it all up and we've had too many cloudy nights.

The last time was January 31, 2017 here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/24719437@N03/31782635104/in/photostream

The last time I advertised my old Newt -
a 10" f6 I didn't get even one reply here at Ice in Space and
I was offering it at 1/3 rd of the cost I paid.

My latest Newt is a carbon fiber 10" f4 -
that cost me a fortune but I bet people would want it for nothing -
the same with the mount and mono camera.

People should bear that in mind when they buy astro equipment.
Unless you buy a high end refractor
Astro Physics, Takahashi, TMB -
it's almost a certainty
that it will be a total loss when you ever want to sell it.

[xelasnave]

Astro is not too bad..try moto cross ( or most forms of racing) you buy a new bike for the season and almost give it away before you buy the new one for the next season...its racing and last years model will not be as good as the new model...and a seasons racing leaves the bike rather tired even with constant rebuilds.
Anyways if all you can think about is money and recouping your money maybe it is your attitude that is the problem. You dont go on a world trip and try to recover the outlay by selling photos of the trip or conducting a speaking tour...basic economics says there are basically two types of goods..Capital Goods ( money makers) and Consumer Goods ( to be consumed without financial return) guess how an economist would define astronomy gear...
Alex
Alex

[pgc hunter]

Hemi hit the nail on the head. A lot of the prices in recent times in the classifieds have been a joke. There is a reason why it's dead jim.

The amount I have saved by buying used before this virus, and then new from the US and UK over local, is almost comical.

There appears to be price hikes on new gear aswell, really, did a 2" UHC/OIII really jump from $299 to $369 at Bintel? Glad I bought my 2" Lumicon OIII last year for US $160. Big increase in US prices too lately.

[xelasnave]

Getting an offer is part of negotiations and handled correctly we see a fair price achieved so to take an offer as an insult is rather an odd attitude.

An offer indicates interest from a potential buyer.

People make offers based on their view of value so why take it as an insult?

I recall making you what I believed was a fair offer on a 80 mm refractor which you did not accept...did you regard my offer as an insult?

I dont care of course what you thought but my offer was based entirely on various things relevant to me and certainly not in any way to see you recover on your "investment"...why should it be otherwise?
Alex

[AstralTraveller]

I have bought most of my astro gear second hand on IIS and my experiences have been almost entirely positive. I have never made an offer and have always paid marked price. If I can't afford it then I can't afford it and I won't try low-balling; I don't want to be that sort of person. I also have (or had) a shopping list to which I try to stick. [There have been a couple of impulsive ep purchases but nothing much.] So I am willing to sit and wait until the desired item comes up for sale and, in the case of scopes and mounts, within reasonable driving distance. As part of that process I used to read just about every classified add so I would know the right item at a reasonable price when I saw it. I still view many adds just out of interest.

Looking back, I wonder if I ever ignored an add because I felt the item was overpriced? (as opposed to the price being reasonable but out of my range) It may have happened but I can't recall it - but then I probably wouldn't.

These days I have all the scopes and eps I need ... OK just one or two more eps :lol: and so I'm not in the market. I see nice gear on the classifieds but I can't buy because the cupboard is already full. I suspect a great number of IIS members are in the same situation. I wonder whether much of the difficulty in shifting astro gear is due to market saturation?

[beren]

This SW scene comes to mind

[FlashDrive]

That's what I have encounted in the past , several members ask each other , have you got one of these for sale or swap ( within that particular group )....they trust each other so much, that the goods are posted prior to payment or payment arrangements are agreed between the seller and buyer ) ....I've been privileged to be part of business with other IIS Members in this way.

Who I thank dearly for their ' trust ' in me.

Col...

[FlashDrive]

:lol:;)

[Hans Tucker]

The second hand market on IIS is feeding my addiction ... I now have 27 eyepieces and I really don't know why.

[FlashDrive]

Sell, Sell, Sell :lol: EOFY ....!!

[xelasnave]

You like them so who cares if you use them... I have just ordered my third cigarette lighter and I dont smoke... I like them and will probably het more.
Alex

Mmm I am still wondering about the implications of Davids comment....

I won't try low-balling; I don't want to be that sort of person.

Alex



Reminds me of my mothers antique group they bought and sold to each other and never noticed the antique market crashed until members of the group started dieing off and as a consequence their market shrunk.

And that is why I have a stack of antiques that I will never get the money back on and cant sell because I know what they cost.

But they all massaged each others egos that this was great or rare or whatever and sold back and forth...someone would sell and others would buy so the seller could buy yet another item..it was like a bank..but no one could see that they were out of touch... but outside the market had moved on...And they all thought that they owned all the antiques in the world ... but really they did not own it all ..there was heaps of stuff just that they rarely went to the open market buying from friends or relations..never working with the open market and paying stupid money...Outside the group no one really cared about the rareness of this or that... I have thought of trying to find such a group so I can sell it cause on the open market not only will they not pay a decent price but they just dont want it..and so it sits there.

Just remember the last one standing loses...how I wish they had put the money in CBA shares...but people kid themselves..buy shares..the price appears daily and you can sell when you decide to sell.

Alex

[Hans Tucker]

Yes .. they are my Precious

[xelasnave]

Here is my precious...its the only one I own so its very rare.
But it just does not work as when wearing it people can still see me....the chain holds the ring on as it is way too big...I expect to grow into it.

Alex

[Boozlefoot]

Ryderscope recently advertised an FSQ. Members and moderators should take note of this particular thread as it represents truly a precise, an informative, and genuine offer for sale, which reads as all ads should. (Thank you Rodney)

We are constantly becoming presented with threads with terms such as "EOI" and "lowballers", etc. If you're going to advertise something for sale, then do so. If you're wanting to sell something, then sell it. I don't want to have to read your reasons for selling it, it has little relevance to me. As for EOI ads, its a telescope, not a block of units in the CBD or a shopping centre you're selling, it's a bloody telescope. As for the terms "lowballers", etc, simply have the common decency to say "no offers please" and leave it at that. It's a forum for the sale of equipment, not a platform for self aggrandisement.

Some people have misconceptions as to the actual value of what they are advertising, and what they may achieve at resale. This is also compounded by the fact they may have bought without proper consideration and consultation - the end result a massive dose of the regrets.

Astronomy gear, so varied, so complex, but like any other thing, it's only a commodity to be bought and sold.

[jahnpahwa]

I don't see an issue with the used market at all. Selling things here recently has been smooth sailing for me and I think buyers have been happy.


Maybe we're asking too much for our second hand gear. We buy a scope, use it for possibly hundreds of hours and then complain about losing $1000 on what we paid? Pro-rate your loss into dollars per hour of enjoyment and compare that to just about any other activity that you enjoy doing.


also, people need to be aware of the new gear market... comparing asking price to Bintel or other locals is folly, especially for high end stuff

[Paul Haese]

Frankly I don't agree here Alex. I would never send an item off to someone else without payment. I am not that naïve. You want it you pay for it first like in the shops. If you manage to buy or sell equipment like that, well good luck to you.

If you have ever owned a high end scope or mount you would not be making that statement. The quality is there and the views are outstanding. It like driving a Ferrari or Aston Martin. AP scopes are made in such low numbers and to such a high standard that the price of them increase over time, even when another run is made of a particular model. Particularly the ones of very limited runs. RCOS scopes which have not been produced for many years, still demand high prices. Software Bisque Paramount ME mounts even 15 years old still are quite valuable. Takahashi scopes right now are demanding high resell prices because of the shortages and because they are high quality. If you want to buy one now you would have to either wait 12 months or pay higher prices. In some cases you will never be able to buy a particular scope again new and yet pay a price much higher than when it was sold new.

Trevor I get your point of view, it brings out the cheap skates trying to buy something of quality for 50% or less. Personally 60-75% is fair for equipment in good condition. Anyone who wants to buy any piece of equipment for less that 50% is just dreaming. Sometimes you have to wait a long time to attract a buyer who needs that piece of equipment.

[Boozlefoot]

Well said Paul, and JP. It's all swings and roundabouts, and patience is a virtue, especially now with the supply difficulties. "Fairness" being the key word here. Trevor's price was well in the ballpark, the location probably narrowed his market. Having said that, I've never sold a scope, they're given away. (refer JP's pro-rate dollars/enjoyment), but nor have I been in the enviable position of buying "high-end" (which would be wasted on my poor old eyes anyway and deserve a much better home) I'm still waiting patiently to sell my astrophotography rig, barely used, virtually BNIB.

[Hodur]

That’s about right, it’s less than arbitrary. Retail markup In Astro 20-50% freight, handling. Targeting 50% of new is fair, just and reasonable and likely to result in a quick sale.

[rat156]

Hi All,

Just to add to this. I'm getting back into AP after a location enforced break and am looking at some of the secondhand gear here. There's one bit of gear that was sold in 2020 to the current owner, who now wants an extra $750 for it. He pretty obviously took it as insulting when I pointed this out and offered what I actually considered a fair price for it. It's now offered for $4250 (seemingly not-negotiable), was sold in September 2020 for $3500, I offered $3000. New price would be about $9k.

Not complaining that my offer wasn't taken up, a bit miffed that someone here wants to profit by flipping gear.

Cheers
Stu

[sharkbite]

that's the free market for ya....

My son just bought car which at best is a $4k shirtbox.

the insurance companies wont insure it for more than that....

and he managed to "talk them down" to $8k from a $10k asking price...

....and it was the cheapest he could find around for that model of car...

[LewisM]

It's amazing to see a few Taks I have bought and sold before going for higher than not only I sold for but for what I paid. Says a lot about quality gear, but more so about perceptions of value.

[Hans Tucker]

Years ago I remember seeing an ad on Astromart for a couple of Astro-Physics refractors, one being a AP155. They were mint condition, never been used and in original packaging. The buyer sole intention was to buy these at market price, hold onto them for a few years ... in this instance 10 .. and sell them for a profit. They sold quick at nearly three times the purchase price.

[JA]

They were his self managed super fund.... Come to think of it....

Best
JA

[cciss]

I'm fairly new to astronomy, and so have been searching almost daily for used gear, here, AA Buy & Sell (Canada and UK also), Astromart, Cloudy Nights, Gumtree and even ebay, for about 3 months.

Seems to me, anything at reasonable prices seems to sell quickly with many prices close to new.
I'd buy new and pay it off but very often "Sold Out"

[houssamAstro]

I'm looking to sell my gear