What is going on in NSW and Vic

[leon]

Hi Guys, just an observation, Vic and NSW are flooded with Covid infections, that is a known. and I am a Vic :sadeyes:

So why, :shrug: SA is doing OK, WA is fine, Tessie is never mentioned, as are any States left over. :shrug:

So what are these two States doing wrong, or is it just a population of idiots that live here.:question:

My apologies to any people offended by this but have a look at the statistics. something is just not right.:shrug:

I will probably be deleted with this, but so be it,

Leon:thumbsup:

[iborg]

Hi Leon


I'm in Melbourne myself. I suspect that population density and total numbers of people on the move are the main factors, followed closely by a big dose of bad luck!


Regardless, it is frustrating.


Philip

[Atmos]

As a Melbournite, I blame Sydney for bringing it down. It’s all Sydney’s fault! ;)

I think it’s mostly to do with population density. NSW and Vic are the two largest economies so there is a lot more population movement.

[xelasnave]

Dont worry Leon..look outside ..any riots? No?
I think so much comes from media sensational ism..dont fall for it.
The government cant win..whichever way they respond there will be opposition...realise that and dont worry...this time next year we will not be thinking about it.
Alex

[xelasnave]

I think the best each of us can do is to spread the "dont panic" approach..spread the calm and dont be led by media sensationalism...lead by example.
Alex

[Hans Tucker]

Along with the already mentioned population density Melbourne and Sydney have the greatest diverse Ethnic population in the country and these have vast extended families. Communication hasn't been the greatest during the pandemic and communication to and within the ethnic groups has been poor and problematic.

[multiweb]

Because delta is super contagious and there were a lot of unvaccinated people in NSW and VIC moving around. It took off like a fire. Now it will likely spread through the unvaccinated population in other states.

[glend]

I don't think Covid is going to just fade away. Look at what is happening in Singapore, with over 80% fully vaccinated, they are having another outbreak. The US CDC has just approved a Pfizer booster for anyone over 60, in an attempt to regain antibodies that drop off six months after your second jab.
Living with Covid is going to mean a background of cases continuing. Even if we were 100% vaccinated, there will still be deaths. The various vaccines do not kill it, but reduce the severity of it if you do get it. You will still need to take precautions. This is the new normal. WA, SA, etc have been very lucky, but their population density works in their favour. Once borders open, so does Covid.

[LewisM]

LOTS of breakthrough infections amongst the fully and partially vaccinated people. Iceland - the world's most vaccinated nation with over 90% done, is undergoing another outbreak amongst the vaccinated (few hospitalisations or deaths, but HIGH case numbers). In fact, the US CDC released data showing VACCINATED people actually are MORE contagious to unvaccinated people as they carry a larger viral dose in their sinuses since their own body cannot uptake it as much due to the SLIGHT conferred resistance via the vaccine.

3 out of the 5 Sydney deaths recently were vaccinated. There is still a stupid sector of our community that thinks vaccination = immunity, which it DOES NOT. It makes you SAFER, not safe. This needs to be drummed into the populace.

COVID 19 is a corona virus, just as the common cold is a corona virus. It's NOT going away, but it will mutate to not kill the host as readily (already has - Delta is FAR less deadly than the initial strains, but more contagious) and our bodies will acquire antibodies against it. Some suffer greatly from respiratory infections, yet many more don't. Being a novel virus that we haven't directly experienced before, it adapts, we adapt.

Canberra is still in lockdown until - at the moment - the 15th October (I sincerely doubt that will be the actual date - it'll be pushed through to November for sure) - we have on average 16 cases a day. Over half have recovered already. None have died. Less than 12 a day are in hospital, with 2 on ventilation on average. On average, approx 80% of the positive cases have been completely asymptomatic and only tested due to having been at an exposure site. Viral fragments have been reported in our sewerage for the past 1.5 years, showing we have ALWAYS had it in the community, again with vast numbers being asymptomatic. There are some troubling indicators emerging in the vaccinated, showing spike protein proliferation in the brain and in the gonads, so this could be a worrisome side-effect, particularly in the younger population (mental health and reproduction issues). We didn't have time to truly test the vaccines in terms of long-term outcomes, and this global experiment is now showing some interesting and in some instances, worrying trends.

There is a massive over-reaction to this virus due to a greater amount of misunderstanding and extremely short-sighted and best-guess policy (just watch one of Andrew's farcical press conferences - he doesn't have a clue, nor do his minions).

Like Glen said - it's not going away. The vaccine is not a cure, not a panacea. It just bolsters the bodies own natural defences.

[GTB_an_Owl]

and the only way to kill it is ! - to let it die
which means only one thing - isolation

geoff

[leon]

Thanks Guys, and Glen, I know what is happening,;) but Vic and NSW are always the target.:question:
What are they doing wrong, no blame, is it the climate:shrug:

Leon:thumbsup:

[GTB_an_Owl]

the almighty dollar Leon

people who need to chase the almighty dollar

geoff

[Stonius]

Basically, Sydney is what happens if you don't face up to reality early enough and take necesarry action.

Melbourne is what happens if you live next to one of those places and have a population that are just completely over lockdown.

[GTB_an_Owl]

that pretty much sums it up as well

geoff

[GrahamL]

If the numbers are still right they said around 50 % of known contacts of a confirmed case do not always follow the advice given .


Personally A family member worked a whole day with a confirmed positive (unkown at the time ) case then came and visited us pre delta and vax.. no one got unwell thankfully but I do know one of the group of 10 told to isolate often did not... govts are to blame for underestimating stupid ..the mirror will take care of the rest in time unfortunately .

[DJT]

Some poor shmuck of a cab driver picked up the virus when moving airline staff when not vaccinated. Delta is a bugger, highly infectious and everyone is always playing catch-up. Both governments are trying to react to something that has already happened. Once the cat is out of the bag…

It’s by the grace of whoever or whatever is out there that the other states have so far dodged a bullet. That and an incredibly strict set of rules about letting people in. Fair play to them.

The best that anyone can do is get themselves vaccinated which will reduce the risk of serious health issues or possibly death.

I remember watching the happenings in Italy last year where medics where triaging people who were seriously ill but not necessarily of COVID because of an overwhelmed hospital system. We do not want to go there. Anyone over 60? Pfft.. Jab away people.

David.

[DJT]

Some poor shmuck of a cab driver picked up the virus when moving airline staff when not vaccinated. Delta is a bugger, highly infectious and everyone is always playing catch-up. Both governments are trying to react to something that has already happened. Once the cat is out of the bag…

It’s by the grace of whoever or whatever is out there that the other states have so far dodged a bullet. That and an incredibly strict set of rules about letting people in. Fair play to them.

The best that anyone can do is get themselves vaccinated which will reduce the risk of serious health issues or possibly death.

I remember watching the happenings in Italy last year where medics where triaging people who were seriously ill but not necessarily of COVID because of an overwhelmed hospital system. We do not want to go there. Anyone over 60? Pfft.. Jab away people.

David.

[LewisM]

People have short-term memories, especially the media (sensationalism for sure). Here's a few from the past decade, showing flu pandemics in Australia and globally are nothing new.


ABS data 2017 flu deaths: https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/3303.0~2017~Main%20Features~Deaths% 20due%20to%20influenza~5


(as a comparison, current toll after 1.5 years: https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/coronavirus-covid-19-case-numbers-and-statistics and https://covidlive.com.au/report/deaths - less than 2017 flu season considering this data is covers additional months)



NSW health department, 2016: https://www.slhd.nsw.gov.au/PopulationHealth/pdf/SLHD-InfluenzaReport_2016.pdf


SMH Sydney report 2018: https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/nsw-flu-season-seven-more-deaths-and-more-than-30-000-infected-20190630-p522oa.html


Aussie Flu epidemic: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-11/aussie-flu-australia-not-to-blame-for-uk-spread-experts-say/9319372

Take the precautions,stay home if sick and get your shots....and don't live in abject fear. Australia as a whole is doing incredibly well despite the ineptitude of several politicians (not naming names :P) - our fatalities are not even a chip off the European or US numbers

[xelasnave]

Thank you Lewis.
Dealing in fear should be a capital offence ...unfortunately there are so many "influencers" for the want of a general description, who use fear to gather their audience or " followers" ...and they will point to one or more of the many problems in the world with such an intense focus that "their" group becomes entirely occupied worrying about that one area...it is unhealthy and unrealistic...I say to people to look "outside", meaning from where they are, and consider how any of these apparent "sky is falling" issues are actually affecting them, their family or their friends...AND sure there are many who are suffering due to covid measures but really if you think about it things are holding up far better than anyone could reasonably expect...personally I really thought 12 months ago that the stock market would crash and real estate would become valueless and actually make ownership a burden..but look..shares are doing great, in fact if you bought blue chip after the initial pull back you would now be some 40% up..I wish I bought CBA shares at $62 given they are now $102...but next time..buy buy buy...and you could think banks should suffer..anyways as I said things could be much worse...they are for me personally so I think if one had my problems you could become a little fearful..but I don't.. you just have to deal with all this stuff...and ..what we have is nothing when you go back to ancient times..535 ad ..plague where they think mortality in many places was 50%..bodies filled houses and streets, cattle roamed around as their owners were dead, crops went unharvested...or you think it's bad try living in Brittian, France or Germany in WW2...or being on shore when the terrible events took place in Japan due to the Earth quake...
MOST of all be alert to the journalistic sensationalism designed to generate fear..look at that dude ABC had re the sub last week...why fall for their crap.
Alex

[glend]

Importantly, Penrith defeated the Melbourne Storm. All is right with the world order now.:lol:

[xelasnave]

I think the main issue to address is the month of July.
It was named such after Julius Caesar in recognition of him being a great man and a great general...now the fact was he put at least 200 villiages to the sword saving only able bodied people who he sold as slaves..and responsible for a terrible civil war seeing many folk die...and we accept a month called July ...we may as well have a month named after Hitler because he was handy at war...these are the main issues to deal with.
Alex

[leon]

Wow that was a big response, with many different views on the subject, thank you to all.:thumbsup:
I thought that this post may have offended some, apparently not.:shrug:

Have a nice day and stay safe.:):)

Leon:thumbsup:

[PRejto]

I think the primary reason, other than population density, NSW and VIC have the large outbreak is because these two states have accepted international flights with a very broken hotel quarantine system. The other states have been a lot more cautious, but I fear once they led down the gates, vaccinated or not, delta will spread.

Lewis, I mostly agree with what you have written, but hasten to point out that the latest research paper (that I heard about from Norman Swan on Coronacast towards the end of last week) actually showed that delta is somewhat more lethal than the original covid-19. I do agree that most viruses will mutate towards being less lethal, but that is not a given, especially in a virus that spreads easily before symptoms arise. Once the spread happens the virus has been successful and there is no evolutionary pressure for the virus to become less lethal; it can just as easily become more lethal. It is just all chance.

Peter

[Steffen]

Iceland has administered 162k doses per 100k people. That could be, for example, 90% first and 70% second dose. A bit ahead of NSW, but not by much. Similar to ACT.

They’ve had no deaths in September, and on average ~40 cases per day.

[Hans Tucker]

Can you fairly compare statistics between a country that has an area size of around 104,000 square Km's and a population of 340,000 to NSW's which has an area size of 810,000 square Km's and a population of about 7 million?

[AdamJL]

Delta started overseas. NSW takes the most amount of inbound travellers in the country. VIC second.
That means unless the quarantine system is watertight, Delta will get out.

Delta did indeed get out, because of a failure in the quarantine system.

Once it was in the public sphere, the NSW government failed to act quickly enough to shut down, and it was too late to contain.

[RogerLightyear]

Some good recent points though comparisons with previous years flu seasons aren't really valid given lack of lockdowns and isolation.

[Stonius]

My understanding is the case fatality rate can't really be compared either. Covid is an order of magnitude higher. Once everyone's vaccinated the idea is that he case fatality rate will be resemble the flu. Infections will be sky-high, but deaths will be on a similar level to a normal flu year so, back to normal.


Hopefully, (fingers crossed).


Markus

[Stonius]

I think you're right about the quarantine system. It is possible to contain infectious diseases in purpose built facilities with properly trained staff, but we did away with our infectious diseases hospital under Jeff Kennet in 1996.


It's easy to resign oneself to the inevitability of it getting out, and once out, being unable to control it, (because it's Delta) but a lot of people forget that Victoria beat Delta strain with lockdown number 5.


It was having it reintroduced from NSW a few days later that just destroyed Melburnians. It was the straw that broke the camel's back and a lot of people stopped doing the right thing because what was the point in doing all that hard work when our neighbors could undo it so swiftly?

[multiweb]

Here you go :lol:

[Hans Tucker]

Lucy should know ... she is one ... they way she keeps pulling the Football away just before Charlie Brown can kick it.

[strongmanmike]

Exactly. When such comparisons are trotted out, they fail to consider that for all those past outbreak/flu seasons there was absolutely zero social distancing, zero lockdowns, zero quarantining, zero attention to hand hygiene etc etc in place, ie the viruses just ran a muck to spread and infect as they pleased. Had the strict measures we currently see for Covid19 been in place for those periods/years, then the number of sick and dead would have been vastly lower! It really is a terrible oversight and quite misleading comparison.

Mike

[lazjen]

1. Get Vaccinated - it helps you and everyone else
2. Wear a mask - this is more to help everyone else, but that then helps you.
3. While waiting for vaccination numbers to be high enough, live in an area where the leaders lead and react swiftly to outbreaks e.g. Qld which has now beaten back Delta at least 3 times iirc.
4. Remember how things have been managed (e.g. quarantine facilities, vaccine acquisition, responses to outbreaks, etc) and vote accordingly. :)

[multiweb]

So excited that we're getting out probably early October. :cool:

[Startrek]

I can’t be too excited about COVID still in our community after lockdown eases and the unknown and unpredictable nature of this insidious virus but however I am relieved and grateful its spread has been retarded due to measures that are working including the big one “vaccination”.
I feel for parents with babies and young kids ( like my kids ) and the frail and elderly being locked down. It has really been tough for them.
I’m being optimistic but on the side of caution once restrictions are progressively eased later in October , November and December
We are by no means out of the woods yet , not for a long while yet
Keep aware and vigilant but not paranoid about it
This ugly thing is going to be with us for a long time ... we just have to manage to live with it around us
Stay safe and healthy
Cheers

[PCH]

While I understand your excitement Marc, I’m really struggling to be excited about swapping what we have over here fir what you have over there.

I get that we have to move forward at some stage, but we do have it pretty good over here from many points of view.

Just my 2c

[Stonius]

Yep, I would feel pretty reluctant to open up to us if I were you too.


Interesting to note in relation to flu, there have been far fewer cases this year (https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/influenza-cases-hit-alltime-low-in-australia-in-2021/news-story/ac7a57180b0edc798e47babe312f2eef), precisely because of the covid measures in place, as one would expect.



But given that we flubbed the possibility of eradication, I'm looking forward to things opening up again too, at least in Victoria. I feel a lot better now the vaccine program is starting to gather steam. Whether our friends in WA will welcome us another matter. I hope they do - they have by far the best reef.



Markus

[The_bluester]

Regards the differences between NSW, Vic (And now the ACT) and the rest of Australia.

I reckon NSW got where it did due to an apparent belief in the spin that lockdowns were a symptom mostly of Victorian incompetence (Meaning that there was no need to heed the lessons learned here last year) and that they really were the "Gold Standard" for hotel quarantine and contact tracing and that those would be enough to see them through. Add in a dose of good luck finally running out and the rest speaks for itself.

This time around in Vic, it is pretty well known that the outbreak seeded from NSW, add in people who are well and truly over it and not bothering with the restrictions much (I am in an essential services job so I have been out and about to a degree and I reckon mask use has dropped to about 2/3 of the people I see. All you usually have to do to see someone go in to a shop without checking in, is watch a couple of people go in to a shop!) once you add in a lack of good luck, well here we go again.

The ACT was more or less inevitable when surrounded by an outbreak in NSW.

The rest of the country so far has still had good luck and I hope that it continues. We have gone from the NSW government playing whack a mole on a laggy screen so they seemed to perpetually let it get away in an area before tightening restrictions in just that area, to the vaccine program playing whack a mole by sending extra supplies out of limited stocks to wherever is deepest in the hole this month.

I really hope the rest of Aus just gets to do vaccinations with the sense of urgency that it will help keep them out of a situation that is warm and brown rather than having to choose between mass vaccinations as fast as they can possibly be delivered, long term lockdown, or "Let it rip"

[JohnF]

\
Thanks Lewis. In our area are a number of Doctor who refuse getting vaccinated. I hitchhike a lift with one GP doctor who when I asked if she is getting vaccinated, said "I am still researching it." In Hanover 2/3 of the medical doctors and there staff refused to get vaccinated.

I got banned from the men's shed where I was a member because i am not vaccinated. Some say do not listen to what youtube & social media tells you. But the one I listen to was a Professor of Zoology, head of the department. PHD in Comparative Physiology, who taught immunology to Medical Students at his university.

[raymo]

You shouldn't be thanking Lewis, he is urging us to get our shots, which is contrary to your view.
raymo

[multiweb]

It's been over 16 weeks here now. We've been hit hard and in lockdown 5km radius because Liverpool/Fairfield are LGAs of concern. 1st dose in May and double dosed since 1st of August so low risk of transmitting. Eventually we're going to have to open up so everything starts functioning again. Unvaccinated people will always be most at risk but that's changing quick now looking at the daily numbers of 2nd jabs.

[xelasnave]

So John tell me why you wont get vaccinated given on the balance that seems to be the preferred opinion..

What is it that you fear and please be specific and support your answer with some sort of evidence.. if you wish to claim two thirds of medical staff, whatever, refuse to be vacinated I think we need more...like who are they what are their individual reasons and do those reasons have any basis in fact.

It seems the folk refusing vacination do not have something that justifies their stand and given you are one of those people please tell me and all here why you fear vacination.

Further your youtube dude does he still teach? If he is successful why is he on youtube? if not teaching any more why not?.. always be prepared to find nutters in positions where they really should not be.... and why single out these folk over other experts?

I think you deserve to be thrown out of the mens shed and I hope you stay out of Casino and Lismore as I go there as do friends and family ... Anyways tell me why you choose to be a potential risk...as I see it.
Alex

[Saturn488]

A lot of people are idiots and simply just don't follow the rules. They really don't know what the word "freedom" means. Look what's happening in Kabul, then they will see what freedom really is!

It's a real shame because many, many people still don't get what the phrase "global pandemic" means. It has affected every country in the world to some degree and the virus is very much real. We are in uncharted territories but there is still a bunch of people who need to go get their coffee everyday or just go out, they just can't stay home. They will complain that they have no time to do anything because of work, outings, etc but then when we have restrictions they complain that they can't go out.

We are so very lucky this didn't happened before the age of the internet then we would really have been in lockdown. Wouldn't be able to order groceries online, keep in contact with friends and loved ones around the world like now and would be in a much worse of place as there would be more people moving around.

Humanity worked together to put a man on the Moon and it was only possible by uniting and working torwards a common goal. Once it starts effecting peoples everyday lifes that's where we fail.

I hope in the future as a species we all work together to overcome the many challenges that the world will throw at us. That is the only way to be successful.

My childrens, children might live through another pandemic in 100 or so years and I hope they do a much better job than we have.

[xelasnave]

The main reason I got my two jabs was not to save myself but to be one more in the number of folk that could not pass it on hopefully..you know thinking of others....my days are numbered it seems but I can choose to act responsibly...further...sure things can go wrong and there may be screw ups but that does not justify folk ignoring what is necessary...you just dont say..NSW screwed up so lets not try anymore...to take that attitude is a childish cop out.

AND my doctor sounds smart as he could tell me everything and had researched the matter well before I saw him..
Fancy a doctor and after all this time can not complete her research...on you youtube or reading scientific papers????I would love to know who she is..from Nimbin I guess.

..and my doctor was able to suggest this over that because I had a high blood clotting risk..well no problems..not even a saw arm...I really think folk who wont get vacinated are big sooks looking for any lame excuse not to suffer the terrible pain from a little needle...and not a thought about others...and John..really should you be hitch hiking ? And really should that doctor have picked you up..the situation says so much about each of you...it would seem in breach of lock down rules..I suppose that you are above those rules?
So here is your chance share your fact please.

Alex

[raymo]

As far as I know, Zoology and Comparative Physiology, have limited, and almost zero relevance respectively to immunology, so why would this Professor be teaching it to medical students?
raymo

[multiweb]

1st trip to the hair dresser with grass shears then off to a dark site somewhere. :thumbsup:

[xelasnave]

I was hoping John may figure that out Raymo...so many folk say in effect .."he is a scientist so his opinion is worth having" ..in effect..er well no..like everything science has various specialised fields and really if you are not working in a particular field your opinion is no better than a layman's..like why would you think a guy working in General Relativity should have any cred in say climate science...in law as with medicine you have your local lawyer or doctor who basically has the job of reasonably identifying your condition ( or legal problem) then referring you to a medical specialist or in a legal case sending you off to see a Barrister who does that work day in day out..like would you send a client going thru a divorce to a workers compensation barrister?

But most folk just do not think..heck I am a mug and I seem to not be taken in by internet cranks...first ask..who are they, what are their qualifications, what is their area of specialisation, have they written any papers, why the need to host a youtube channel? Having that need strikes me as suggesting some lack of self esteem which one must always wonder about.

Alex

[Hans Tucker]

Manbun the hair. Well we can rule out QLD and WA for your Dark Skies retreat

[multiweb]

:lol: WA is a little far. QLD, well... Astrofest got cancelled 2 years in a row and won't be up this year either. But Wiruna is alive and well so hopefully I can go there. :stargaze:

[Sunfish]

Well said Raymo.

One can easily find a vaguely related academic to give you something to misquote. Newspapers have discovered this. The question is , are they widely published in peer reviewed journals for articles in the field.? Were they asked to check the article and quote?

Even though even many medical people do not fully understand immunology, which is just about as specialised as it gets, an informed scientist will always give us practical measures, wear a mask, wash your hands correctly, get vaccinated, stay outside in public away from others.

[PCH]

Alex, I’m fairly sure that being jabbed doesn’t stop you passing it on to others if you were to get covid.

[xelasnave]

I can not work with " fairly sure" and it seems I need to know more ..however..what the facts may or may not be does not detract from my motivation and even if mistaken the fact remains I had the jabs holding the reasonable belief that I would be less risk to others...thanks for your worrying observation.
Alex

[multiweb]

A year ago they didn't know if it was the case. Not sure if they still don't now. :question:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgfeV9b1K4M&t=18s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgfeV9b1K4M&t=18s

[LewisM]

US CDC has confirmed fully vaccinated people not only are contagious, but MORE contagious than unvaccinated due to their own bodies not uptaking the viral load - the increase in mucosa viral load is higher in vaccinated than not.


That's confirmed.

Quote:
"The delta coronavirus strain, now believed to account for most COVID-19 cases in the U.S., can generate significant viral loads in vaccinated people, raising alarm that even those who have received shots can spread the virus, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Friday.


“High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with delta can transmit the virus,” Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the director of the CDC, said in a statement. “This finding is concerning.”"

[xelasnave]

Now there we have what appeared to be an honest and frank set of answers but when you read the comments you get these negative people who are just happy to critise..like saying " they know nothing" in effect..well clearly they know a great deal and are working on solutions it would seem..is that not good enough for all these ding bats..

So where is John? Hitching home?

Anyways..I have not suffered as I have been in and out of hospital but in both cases bed ridden except for the trips into town for blood tests or to see my doctor or specialists..I am still being careful and responsible.

Thanks for the video Marc.
Alex

[multiweb]

Got a link to that article? I couldn't find it on the CDC website. The only thing I could find is an article dated 06/08/2021 that says that fully vaccinated people spread the virus (delta variant) for a shorter time.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html

[Astronovice]

Hi Alex,
Studies in the US, Singapore and UK have all shown that:

Vaccinated people can become infected, but the risks of serious illness and hospitalisation are significantly reduced.

Vaccinated people are much less likely to become infected.

Vaccinated people who do get infected stay infectious for about half the time that unvaccinated do.

All of the above means that vaccination both protects you and reduces the risk of passing infection to others.

Stay Safe Alex - it’s great to have around again!

C

[LewisM]

I sure am urging vaccination. The real data definitely agrees.

What I don't always agree with is the over-hype and sensation, and pure ignorance and more so, ARROGANCE around it. The amount of division within the community is alarming and very disturbing and a definite wall of vaxxed vs unvaxxed exists. That is exactly what we DO NOT need.

People still have a choice. With evidence showing vaxxed are dangerously contagious as well, the piousness shouldn't exist. Yet, of course, the government is not showing a lot of the data, unless you dig.

I believe NONE of what I see on the news - NONE. I read for myself, make my own opinion.

Here is the PDF of the CDC report (a confirmed genuine document): https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/cdc-breakthrough-infections/94390e3a-5e45-44a5-ac40-2744e4e25f2e/?_=1

(I can email the original to anyone - it's too large to upload here).

The key points from it:
▪Delta is different from previous strains–Highly contagious –Likely more severe–Breakthrough infections may be as transmissible as unvaccinated cases▪Vaccines prevent >90% of severe disease, but may be less effective at preventing infection or transmission–Therefore, more breakthrough and more community spread despite vaccination


I did make some errors in a prior statement, but for transparency, I won't redact or change the erroneous statement.

[multiweb]

ah ok. That looks like a power point presentation by the Washington post but not sure who wrote it in the first place. There is a disclaimer in the last slide:



It could be an opinion piece. I asked because I couldn't find any of this info on the actual CDC website.

[Astronovice]

Totally agree with the sentiments in your previous post Lewis.

The politicisation, misinformation and hype around COVID vaccines is unprecedented. The instant nature of communication these days should work in favour of rapidly proliferating fact based information, unfortunately this often gets swamped by crap peddled by extremists and charlatans, sadly some of them posing as politicians.

Some of us are old enough to understand the value of vaccination based on real life experiences. I was born and lived in England until 1982. My mother nursed her sick father suffering with TB, the result being she contracted TB and passed away before I was old enough to know and remember her.

My now wife and I when courting used to walk past a house with a large bay window, which contained a double bed kitted out with an electrically powered iron lung occupied by a young ex nurse, who whilst nursing an infected patient contacted polio that paralysed her from the neck down. She lived in permanent fear of power cuts.

Just two examples of diseases that have been eradicated by vaccines in all but third world countries. I understand that this vaccine was developed quickly, but that was a result of limitless funds and effort. The technology has been around for years and has been adapted for COVID. Even the newer mRNA based vaccines technology was developed at least 4 years before COVID appeared as part of research towards vaccines for diseases like HIV, which is still a work in progress.

So, please all get vaccinated as soon as possible if you haven’t already done so and let us get back to at least some sort of normality in the next few months.

[h0ughy]

Thanks for the discussion but that's as far as this thread goes