What Solar Scope after having a PST?

[Cliff]

Hi all,

After having ok success with a Coronado PST I have moved it on and looking for something else.

Possibles

the Daystar 60 or just a Quark ?

Quark more versatile, could use it in my Tak76DS not sure about wether Flourite is ok for solar?

A Lunt 40 or 60 ?

Any suggestions ?

Appreciate any ideas
Cliff

[astro744]

I first saw a Ha Sun through a Coronado SolarMax 60. I liked it so much I got my own but could only afford the Coronado SolarMax 40 (pre-Meade). This is a step above the PST since the bandwidth is narrower and the focuser is better. However it is still 40mm.

The larger aperture of a 60 mm Ha ‘scope would give, a 2.25x brighter image than the a 40mm and would be the logical step up but at added cost. Image brightness is perhaps more important if you want to observe the surface and especially if you are double stacking. Narrower bandwidth too helps with contrast on the surface.

If I were to upgrade from 40mm I would go to straight to 80mm but this is at considerable more cost and at present I am satisfied with what I can see with the Coronado SolarMax 40mm. I have never looked through a Lunt Ha Telescope.

[Merlin66]

Cliff,
Bang per buck, the best/easiest/cost effective upgrade is adding a QUARK to a suitable scope.
For over 15 years I have been advocating PST mods as a way to larger aperture Ha imaging/observing. I now have to acknowledge that the costs of the PST mod has significantly increased, to the stage were the QUARK solution is much, much, more cost effective.
You won’t be disappointed.
Ken

[AstroJunk]

+1 for the Quark

Visually the finest I have owned is the Lunt 100DS which was absolutely brilliant, but it was a big investment. The Quark is cheap and cheerful in a way that Ha usually isn't, but prepare for some compromises. That built in barlow makes for a big magnification on all but the smallest scopes and the tuning can be a little frustrating. I'm still happy that I have one though!

[mental4astro]

I have a Quark, Prom model. I use it with an ED80. It suits my needs just fine. It shows an extraordinary amount of faint detail in proms. It does also show filaments, but of course not as easily as a dedicated H-alpha instrument. But more detail in the proms than a dedicated H-alpha? Dunno. It depends on how deep your pockets are too, not just expectations. In my own situation I cannot justify a dedicated H-alpha instrument in my collection. The Quark gives me the prom display that I want and allows me to use the ED80 for other purposes.

I have used single and double stacked H-alpha scopes. These are also less tricky to use than a refractor with a Quark. There are several "tricks" I use to pull as much detail from the Quark, but this also means that the Quark is flexible in how it can be used, not just stick an EP in it and that's it. A Quark and an H-alpha scope are different beasts. I can also use the Quark with a 4" scope, and a 4" H-alpha scope is a wee bit more expensive... It all depends.

My sketches below were all done with the Quark and ED80. I've also put down the sunspots and whatever other chromosphere details that were visible, such as plages and filaments.

This Quark/ED80 combo has also shown me filaments that transition to across to proms. Took me by surprise the apparition, but there it was. It is a good tool the Quark.

Alex.

[Cliff]

Such a great forum,
Thanks for the information Jonathan,Ken and Astro744?

Seems the Quark is the most cost effective , certainly a 60mm Lunt is double, the one being sold now is a modular so can be used non-solar.

Really only have one scope suitable well two a 80mm ES Triplet and a Tak FC76DS doublet which is a Flourite. Both would show a partial disc I think.

Probably need a 60mm ?

I like the unpowered Lunt but with small battery packs available I guess the Quark is not bad, have read with the built in Barlow that seeing conditions have to very good to get the most out of it.

Off to think some more
Cliff

[Cliff]

Thanks Alex,

I think I've been down this path before with you and I ended up with a PST was best bang for the buck at the time. Worked pretty well the 'hotspot' was a pain in photos.
I tend to agree a dedicated Ha scope is a bit of a luxury, I like that the new Lunts 60mm and greater are now Modular so can be used at night etc but still pricey.

You've thrown another curve a Prom or Chromosphere ? Guess it depends on what you want to view I know they both can see the other but not as well.

I looked at the Solarscout 60 but has a fixed Quark the 80mm one is removable but at $$$.

Cheers
Cliff

[mental4astro]

Oh, I nearly forgot!

I also had a PST for a short period at the same time as I had the Quark. I got the PST after the Quark. While the PST was better in showing chromosphere details, the Quark still showed the same details but it took a bit more effort. The larger aperture that the ED80 afforded also stomped on the 40mm's of the PST...

As an outreach instrument a dedicated H-alpha scope I certainly say is better as a Quark does need a more experienced eye. Still useable for outreach the Quark is, but really best for when the Sun is at its Maxima with big proms.

Alex.

[Merlin66]

Chris,
if you do go for a Quark, get the Chromosphere version.
A bit tighter in bandwidth, giving better contrast on surface features but still capable of showing the prominences.

[mental4astro]

Cliff,

My choice of Prom model over Chromosphere was an easy one for me. And as you said, which you or any other individual goes with is entirely a personal choice. With my sketching, it is the proms that present the better visuals.

I have also tested the Quark in many different scopes, achromatic and apo. Not all scopes are created equal, and while H-alpha is a monochromatic situation, I noticed a difference between scopes.

I used scopes from 60mm up to 100mm in aperture. I tried 7 different fracs all up. The apo's had the edge over the achros, even the 100mm achro was not on par with an 80mm apo. I also noticed differences between different Apos. Made me wonder if some scopes that are described as being Apochromatic really are... One performed more like an achro than apo.

The only thing to take from my comparison of refractors is the better the refractor you use, the better the image will be with the Quark. It is that simple. But an 80mm f/5 achro is still a blooming good scope with a Quark. Splitting hairs here again.

[xelasnave]

If I purchased a myall cover for a refractor can I expect to get anything using a mono cosmos camera with a HA filter in place?
Alex

[Merlin66]

Alex,
I assume you mean a solar film filter (Baader)?
If so, then you're restricted to White Light Observing. This shows the sunspots and surrounding faculae, and with larger apertures >100mm will also show the surface granulation.
Adding an Ha filter doesn't change the view, it may help improve contrast but that's it.

Definitely no solar Ha detail - that requires special narrow band filters ($$$$$$)

[xelasnave]

Thanks Ken for your reply, thats what I suspected.
Alex

[astro744]

No. Typical narrow Ha filter will be 12 or 6nm. Typical Ha solar telescope will be 0.7 Angstrom. 1 Angstrom=0.1 nanometer. Energy rejection filter also to be in place in Solar telescope. This very narrow bandwidth is why they cost so much.

[Cliff]

Thanks Alex,

Interesting but I guess not real surprising that not all scopes are created equal.

A quick question is that a home made solar finder on the scopes there?

I've also read that Quarks have a limited service life unlike a conventional Solar scope. Not heard anyone having to send it back ?

The Quark certainly seems to heading the list so far.

Cliff

[Cliff]

Thanks Ken,

Yes I would go for the Chromosphere model I think the narrower passband is better for photos also.

[Merlin66]

Cliff,
Not sure about your” limited service” comment.
With normal etalons used in the Coronado and Lunt I’m not aware of any issues. They have been in use for more than ten years with no failures.
However, the associated blocking filters do have a front element, commonly called the ITF, which can and does fail sometimes within months. These are easy to replace.
With the Quark and other solid etalons there’s very little to go wrong.
So, generally solar etalon filters are very robust and should last you as long as you’re an active observer.

[Cliff]

Ken,
I was thinking the Quark might have limited life,
I know that some ITF's fail in the blocking filters, lots of info about PST's having issues.

[xelasnave]

Thank you for that...I did google but did not find what you told me in my initial search and I had thought the band was different but could not recall its details nevertheless I did wonder if a ordinary Ha filter would be a step above white imaging so with the experts gathered here I thought it was a good opportunity to ask. Thanks again.
Alex

[Merlin66]

Both the Lunt and Coronado blocking filters are prone to ITF failure.

[Cliff]

I see that Daystar recommends using a UV/IR before the diagonal and the Quark on scopes 80mm and higher.

Also read a Baader 35nm Ha filter can also be used .

As I would mostly use a camera without a diagonal would these filters still be necessary guessing yes as they protect the Quark.

A side note I have another Refractor a Quadruplet and they say they need a front energy rejection filter they are $$$

Just watched Chuck on youtube and he is getting great results from a AR!02 and a ASI174MM with his Quark.
He reckons visually the quark is not so good ?

[Merlin66]

Cliff,
"" ....Refractor a Quadruplet and they say they need a front energy rejection filter"" Who says????


The refractors with the rear Petzval elements are all 100% safe to use without added protection.
The manufactures have all advised me that their product is 100% safe to use with a Herschel wedge.
It's an Urban myth that the rear elements will be damaged - just not true!


I use my Genesis four element/Petzval with the Herschel wedge for all my white light images. No issues, no drama.

[Cliff]

Good to know Ken, I am sure it was in the Daystar information about the Petzval ,the 106mm should be great on the Quark then.

Also been looking at the Herschel wedge they vary lots in price too.
Currently just use Baader Solar film on my old Meade 6"SCT works pretty good. Pic attached

[Merlin66]

Cliff,
That’s a very nice image, well done.
The Baader solar film is a very cost effective (and 100% safe) way of doing white light observing.
Experienced observers report the Herschel wedge give “better” viewing and images, maybe a 10-20% improvement over the film.
The wedge can only be used on refractors, so not as useable as the film.
I used the Baader solar film for many years before changing to the Herschel wedge.
To me the ultimate performance comes down to the local seeing conditions.

[Cliff]

I'm now thinking a Combo Quark and a seperate 4X Barlow etc.

Means I have the 4X also available for planetary imaging .

Then in theory could use it with either the 6"SCT or a refractor anybody tried this ?

[Cliff]

Well I took the plunge and a have a Combo Quark Chromo and just received 4X powermate not used yet.
Today first light I guess visual only though , with my 76mm x 570mm F7.5 refractor a 2X ES focal extender and a couple of Meade 32 and 40mm plossils, the Proms were stunning though little surface detail so i am at F15 I think.
Focus is marginal almost all the way in.
First day impressive, now to get the 174mm in focus need to reduce spacing somewhere.

I added my 'first light' photo using the Combo Quark + ES2X on a 76mm x 570mm Refractor. This was on the 20thAug2021 weathers been pretty lousy since. Camera ZWO ASI174MM

[Cliff]

Hi,

Well finally some decent activity and clear skies.

Taken 1st September 2021

not coloured and barely processed out of stacking.

White Light - Meade 6"SCT Baader Film.

Ha- Combo Quark, 4X Powermate ,Tak 76DS.


Cliff

[Merlin66]

Cliff,
Whooo!!!!
Those are very exciting Ha images. The prom looks fantastic.:eyepop:
Well done mate.

[Cliff]

Thanks Ken,

I'm pretty impressed now with the Combo Quark it was a bit of a gamble and took a while to work things out. Seems indeed F30 is the sweet spot.

I like that I can now get a full disk image if I use the ES2X with a 0.5 focal reducer on the 174MM camera. Details no where near as good though.

Cliff