NINA (from a long time SGP user)

[RobF]

Peter4059 inspired me to check out the latest options in automated imaging some time ago. SGP has been a workhorse for years, but no harm in checking out what else is available.

Didn't want to go Linux. Have tried Voyager before and realized I've have to kunckle down for quite a few nights to get the basics in place.

NINA has some long threads on Cloudy Nights and looked promising. Recent iterations include native QHY9 drivers which also appealed, so last night installed and tried it out.

First decision is whether to install 32bit or 64bit. All my gear is plugged into an older Mount Hub Pro, so was expecting to have to go 32 bit. Eventually managed to get QHY9, FW, QHY5IIM, EQMOD and MHP driven Robofocus motor talking. Still some tricky behaviour with my old 1st version QHY filterwheel, but otherwise quite impressed at how intuitive it all has been to set up so far.

Only managed a few test subs and test meridian flip last night. Will try some basic sequence imaging tonight.

Anyone else regularly using NINA?

[AnakChan]

There are quite a few NINA users here I believe. It has come a long way just even within the past 12-18 months. I've got the 64-bit version running and I do run the nightlies on my GMK NUCBox (J4125/8GB RAM/512GB SSD) with a PegasusAstro PPBA.

My setup's somewhat newer with the ASI6200MM/EFW/ASI174MM Mini, etc. so I don't have any issues with drivers. I did read getting the older QHY CCD-based drivers running with NINA was a little tricky.

[Edit for transparency: I have not used SGPro myself personally but I'm familiar with it being exposed to it over the past 3-4 yrs with my colleagues' rigs]

To -my mind- at least, the reasons of using SGPro are diminishing. That's not to say that NINA excels over SGPro in every area as it seems SGPro still has a few tricks up its sleeves (e.g. Sequence Recovery) that NINA doesn't have.

However overall for me, NINA does enough of what I need and I don't see myself using SGPro anytime soon.

[RobF]

Thanks Sean. Glad to hear its humming for you. Its doing its thing nicely on a HaLRGB sequence on M16 currently and seems to be getting on with the job very efficiently. Really doesn't muck about settling and collecting subs. Download times very nice, focusing, plate solving (ASTAP is damned fast), pointing and meridian flip seem to be holding up nicely.

Fascinating digging through the Discord site and seeing how often those new "Nightly" versions pop out. Had the guy that wrote the native QHY driver support into NINA answer a filterwheel query within an hour today which was pretty amazing.

Stumbled upon the advanced sequencing dialogue in the latest 1.11 version and my eyes almost popped out at all the logic options in there, e.g.
- Pause until object reaches altitude,
- Trigger refocus if average HFR drifts,
- Logic loops
That part reminds me a little of CCD Autopilot - without the price tag.

Think I'll continue using it for next few outings and see how it goes.....

[AnakChan]

I definitely don’t use the Advanced Sequencer to it’s max but it is a very powerful tool - but that also means that if you’re not using it properly you could get yourself into a twist.

So far I’ve been using the loops & triggers mainly (start when target rises above xx deg until dawn, or sets below yy deg whichever comes first, recenter on drift, and all the usual AF triggers on temp, HFR change, etc.).

I also use their FlatWizard but that requires a slight learning curve as it’s not so intuitive initially - I kept getting “too bright”, “too dim”, etc. but now I’ve gotten the hang of it, I use it to do flat darks too.

Yes the Discord support has been good. They’ve been prompt in identifying and fixing bugs. But on the other side of the coin, I’m updating nightlies really frequently :D.

[RobF]

Yes, thought I better stay away from the advanced sequencing dialogue until fluent with the basics. Likewise with the flats wizard. Nice to hear someone happy with the logic smarts.

One step at a time always seems to work best in this hobby :)

Curious - why do you keep needing the latest "nightly" version - and how often do you encounter probs?

[AnakChan]

You actually don’t need to update everytime. I just have the habit of updating to the latest. In terms of actual bugs encountered, I’ve only experienced an issue only once or twice in the past 6 months which the devs fixed within the hr of reporting it in Discord.

If one were to go through the changelog, most of the changes are minor or cosmetic, or upgrade of native libraries from 3rd parties.

[AdamJL]

NINA user here. I'm on their Discord regularly as well.

It's really a fantastic bit of software. I haven't touched the advanced sequencer because I think it's beyond me, but the rest of it is fantastic. It's also got one of the best user-interfaces around.

[NeilW]

I've been using NINA for some time now. I think it's brilliant. I like the interface, its plate solving with ASTAP is good. Not much to criticize at all, and the developers are always on the Discord site to answer questions.

[RobF]

Thanks Sean, Adam, Neil. Sounds like nothing but praise. Good to know there are others here happy with performance and development path.

Last night went well for me again. You get a feel for the style of complex software pretty quickly (while finding your way around - without reading the manual :) ) and these guys seem pretty switched on.

[TrevorW]

I get confused by all the bells and whistle has anyone got a tutorial on basic setup to get this up and running without being too technical :)

[AnakChan]

At a high level, it's actually not too difficult. One can probably start with this :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUCf3frKrBc

There's some few basic workflows for the Framing, etc. and thereafter pawn the details off to the Basic Sequencer. The Basic Sequencer is reasonably intuitive (more so than the Framing Wizard).

It's the Advanced Sequencer that starts to look daunting as it looks more like programming a schedule rather than planning a schedule. However I usually just "cheat" by starting with Basic Sequencer first, then have that converted into the Advanced Sequencer. Then within the Advanced Sequencer I start moving tasks about, adding new triggers/loops, splitting some tasks, etc.

I don't have a permanent setup, which means I have to carry my rig out for the evening & PA manually. But once that's done, I can head inside and just hit go on my plan. I check every now and then in between TV commercials before heading to bed.

In the morning if my scope is parked, it means the plan's gone well and all I do is to save the HFR history and other details of the night.

If I've got a few clear nights, I leave the scope out, tweak the routines a little, and hit play when evening comes. I don't even have to go out to check on the scope. It's pretty automated at this point.

[TrevorW]

Thanks :)

[RobF]

Yep, how you getting it singing Trevor. Coming from SGP or other software helps, but as Sean says plenty of guides out there. You can do a lot worse than just working logically through each config page initially ensure your camera, focuser, mount, etc are all talking and operating correctly before worring about sequences and meridian flips.

(Disclaimer: I only know enough to be dangerous)

[AnakChan]

Talking about dangerous, be careful of the virtual keypad of the mount in the Telescope Tab in NINA (at least for my mount, Vixen AXD). The Up/Down, Left/Right, tap doesn't just send a single pulse for a single tap. It actually sends a continuous pulse on one tap and need another tap to stop it.

I was doing a little PHD2 calibration, and I use an OAG. So I thought I'd do a short tap to move the mount a little to have the guide star in the centre of the OAG. That made my RA rotate 360 (luckily the scope was set to Dec 0 so no camera/OTA crash on the tripod) and got my controller cable twisted around the mount.

Luckily I had a bad feeling after hitting that short tap, and thought I'd better tap again (which was prob only like < 45 sec apart). That was probably the only time I bolted out of the comfort of my living room chair to the backyard. The DC power and the controller cable almost got ripped out of their sockets :D.

[AdamJL]

That's.... unusual. Mine works just as I'd expected it to. A single press sends a single pulse command. I use it all the time when polar aligning. Have you set your ASCOM driver up correctly?

[RobF]

Ouch. I'm using EQMOD ascom driver and would normally dial in the desired rate and tap the E/W/N/S buttons if need to do any manual position tweaking. Always bring up the Dec and RA displays just to make sure not getting near any extremes.

Will have to double check the NINA keyboard and make sure it behaves.

[AnakChan]

The Vixen ASCOM driver's pretty basic actually. Not much to tweak. But maybe in the current rainy week, I may setup indoors and play with it a little more. Since then I've been very cautious on tapping virtual keypads.

[RobF]

Hey guys, I went pyscho and updated my imaging laptop from Win 7 to Win 10 during the week. Currently putting everything back together.

Curious- do people run NINA and other astro programs with Administrator rights? With SGP things seemed to work best with SGP, PHD2, Astroplanner all working with Admin rights.

Wondering if I should leave everything at default settings on this new Win10 install?

[AdamJL]

Hi Rob. I run an admin account on all of my PCs.. Some people argue against that, but it is what it is.
I don't get any UAC windows so no issues there. Only Polemaster software triggers the UAC pop-up.

p.s. nice work on upgrading to 10... Windows 11 is about to be announced on June 24th :)

[RobF]

Thanks Adam - seems ok without putting everything on Admin but yet to run it again properly for a few nights. Good to know the Admin option works if need be.

Yep, I could never muster the courage to update the imaging laptop, but is a bit ironic now Win11 around the corner :)

[Sayfog]

> Curious- do people run NINA and other astro programs with Administrator rights? With SGP things seemed to work best with SGP, PHD2, Astroplanner all working with Admin rights.


I've never explicitly played with the admin settings for anything NINA related (besides on the installer/updater I think) - so after it starts up it should be fine?

[RobF]

Thanks Alistair - that's what I'm trying to do with this new Windows install and so far it seems to be panning out ok.

[Gordy]

I have just started playing around with NINA and can only agree it is a nifty piece of software at an excellent price I may add.



One unresolved problem for me is getting it to recognize my QHY268M camera. The stable version of NINA sees the camera as the OSC and also recognizes the QHY filter wheel. When I tried the Nightly version it correctly saw the camera as mono but failed to recognize the filter wheel. I downloading all the versions of QHY drivers etc to no avail. Since it is not a big deal I will stay with the 1.10 Stable version for now. Despite this, NINA is a clever piece of software.

[AnakChan]

I don't know if that's an issue with NINA. I know my friends who got their QHY268M initially had dodginess with getting the right version of QHY driver installed too for it work.

I just saw another thread in CloudyNights about the QHY268M driver too:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/778479-qhy-driver-woes-again-cant-connect-my-qhy268-again/#entry11207002

[Gordy]

Thanks Sean. I will follow up the Cloudy Nights post.

[toc]

NINA is my tool of choice, and I own both SGP and Voyager. Really have come to love it.

My only real gripe is the rather confusing method of changing the layout of various windows in the 'imaging' section. It's great that its so customisable, but I get lost in anchoring windows and getting things how I want them.

[RobF]

Must admit with both NINA and SGP you sometimes wonder if you'll be able to get back to the previous layout when you start moving the window panels about.

Very pleased how all aspects of NINA have held up in the field. Had some hardware challenges to work around, but otherwise the framing, sequencing, focusing etc performed very well. Speed and reliability of plate solving is impressive, and integration with PHD2 dithering etc excellent. Once everthing is ready, bang - its off and exposing without any messing about.

The only area I've managed to trick myself up so far is in the basic sequencer set to run multiple targets. Managed to unknowlingly mess with slew/centre/autofocus/meridian flips settings between targets, and then later puzzled why it wasn't flipping, or focusing etc. Eventually realised it had done exactly what I'd told it to however :)


Still have SGP installed in the background. Nice they now only support and supply the most up to date V3 release. Haven't had to fall back to it yet however.

[AdamJL]

100% agree with this. Thankfully there’s a reset layout button but still, it’s hard to understand how to move the windows around sometimes.

Here’s a video that also goes into how the layout works

https://youtube.com/watch?v=OEJUya9_LWA

[AnakChan]

If you’re prepared to test the nightlies, there’s quite a few nice plugins released now - filter offset calculator, & drift polar alignment routine to name a few.

[RobF]

Where can you read up on these please Sean? I read somewhere about the Sharpcap style PA routine that was coming and wondering how it would be implemented. Have zilch understanding of plugins currently - will have to do some research. Filter offset calculator sounds nice too.

[RobF]

Used my brain and called up the Plugins page in NINA. Guessing the pic below is the one?

Off to read up in Discord now - I see there is a section cunningly named "plugin-discussions" :whistle:

[Sayfog]

I can confirm TPAPA working from the southern hemisphere - Isbeorn made a few quick updates as I tested it the last few nights (if you scroll up in pplugin-discussions channel you'll see some very dodgy reported PA numbers, but its all been fixed now!).

Same with the ground station alert plugin, no longer do I have remote into my laptop just to see if a meridan flip or platesolve has worked, it will now tell me on my phone :)

[RobF]

Glad to hear the PA is now better than 10,000 degrees out too Alistair, for Southern hemisphere users :)

[Wilsil]

I am using NINA Nightly since the last few months after starting with APT.
It is a great software, easy to use.
First I had some issues with the layout as mentioned by @toc but it is very easy. Drag the window in the general area where you want it and a "Nintendo" style button appears. Left, up, right and down. That represents where it goes in that particular window.
The moment you get it, it is easy. Hard to explain when you not have it running.

[RobF]

Glad to hear Wilco

Had my first multinight outing of NINA 2 weeks ago. Really pleased how it behaved. Only real problems where separate hardware problems - which the probably of which increases the better the weather and darker the skies! :)

Shameless plug for first serious data/object, which I meant to mention earlier:
https://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=192514

[Wilsil]

Downloaded the latest Nightly yesterday and the plugins for three points polar alignment.
Now to wait till the rain stops and the clouds go away to try it out.
It looks like Sharpcap is no longer needed.

[AnakChan]

U should ask Master Oogway from our local group! He has already used it successfully a few times and step you through it if needed :D.

[RobF]

Would be interested to hear how the PA routine works out for other southern hemisphere users. Haven't tried it yet, but on their Discord people seem excited about it.

[Wilsil]

I know :-)
Had a quick look, looks very simple and use 3 slews instead of 2 like Sharpcap.
No to wait on:
- clouds to go away
- shorter screws to attached my OAG to the CFW again after getting the flattener adapter made by B1.

[RobF]

How fussy is it for FOV (Sharpcap essentially requires a focal length near 200mm F5 from memory)? Could you platesolve the main scope and camera?

[AdamJL]

Video published 1hr ago on it... from an Aussie...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyjsD6ASboQ

[RobF]

Great link - thanks Adam. Looking forward to trying this out

[Sayfog]

I've only tried on my rokinon 135mm lens so far, but all it needs is for the main camera to be able to platesolve as far as I can tell. (and given how instantly my RC8 platesolves too with its tiny FoV, I suspect it should be just fine with anything that solves already).

Tomorrow is meant to be clear, I'll try to make a video of the process when I do it.

[Wilsil]

I was using Sharpcap with a focal length if 600mm and F7.5.
Plate solving with that combination is no issue at all.

[RobF]

But.....I think if you're initially a bit off the SCP you risk not getting a solve at that FL? Sharpcap really only has limited database for region close to the pole?

[Wilsil]

And that's where the new NINA plugin comes in.
I tried it yesterday between the clouds rolling in and after dialing in the correct altitude, it worked.
In the end a total error of 00 00' 13". Happy with that.
And it was pointing somewhere north :-)