Just when you thought the hobby couldn't get anymore expensive

[Hans Tucker]

https://www.bintel.com.au/product/fli-kepler-6060-back-illuminated-grade-1/?v=322b26af01d5

Thinking of starting a GoFundMe .. any contributors?

[pmrid]

It's mind-boggling of course, but there are folks out there in Disneyland who would think nothing of that price. That's also a bit mind-boggling.

[Zuts]

one year warranty? :rofl:

[alpal]

At $257,999.00 it's obviously not for the amateur market
so why is it being offered at Bintel?

[Hans Tucker]

99% of Bintel's sales would be to the Amateur market .. Being an FLI dealer I guess they advertise the complete range .. Amateur to Professional. Maybe some University with a dedicated program might invest in this. But you have to wonder what scope would compliment a camera like this ... I just don't think my AP130GTX is up to the task.

Imagine trying to put a Business Case to Miss Ministry of Finance.

[alpal]

With a Sensor Diagonal of 86.8 mm you'd need a very large
telescope to illuminate the chip.
Probably a 24 inch mirror as a minimum?

[Huey]

Shouldn't be a problem. If you can afford splashing some spare cash on the camera, affording a larger telescope only comes natural:lol:

Huey

[Zuts]

Like the Ford Ranger ad when the kid says to his dad,

we're gunna need a bigger boat

[gregbradley]

Hard to see much gain over an ASI6200/QHY600 there.

They are 61mp, 3.76 micron pixels able to do 2x2 or 3x3 binning and 90% QE and a proven performer.

The current CMOS Sony sensors are proven and world class.

They have had a development track and overcome various problems.

Has Kepler done that? The Sony sensors at 90% QE and very low read noise it does not leave much room for improvement.

They are also driven by their development of sensors for Sony, Nikon and Fuji's mirrorless camera market.

102mp full frame is the next likely sensor from Sony.

Greg

[AstralTraveller]

It rare for a uni to fund research internally; maybe some seed funding but not this sort of money. Wollongong invested considerable internal funds to medical research as part of a strategic plan to move into that area and I imagine other unis have made similar strategic investments. However the vast bulk of funding for research comes from the Australian Research Council and equipment is normally via a Linkage Infrastructure Equipment Fund grant. Obtaining a grant is a highly competitive process. Preparation of a grant proposal takes months and has about a 10% success rate. Applications generally close around Feb-March and so many academics spend their christmas 'holiday' preparing their proposal. All proposals must be cross-institutional, academics from 6-8 institutions is common, and preferably cross-disciplinary (though that is more important on a research proposal than an equipment proposal).

Applications are judged against a range of criteria by an expert panel. I've seen an academic with a pile of proposals as high as their desk which he had to get read and evaluated in a few weeks (and this on top of all his regular duties). Proposals need to demonstrate that there are projects ready to go that require the equipment, that there is no other suitable equipment available, that the researchers are competent to operate the equipment and have the necessary support infrastructure, that the research is relevant, important and will benefit society etc etc. The evaluations of all panelist are compiled and converted to scores and the proposals ranked. Grants are awarded from the top down until the year's funding is exhausted. Often the grant is for less than what was requested and researchers are told to find the funding elsewhere. Hence the high rate of bank robberies by struggling academics ;).

The relevant Minster is then supposed to rubber stamp the panels decision but recently there was a controversy when he vetoed a project (in the humanities) because he said it wasn't in the national interest and that from now on all projects must satisfy this criteria. The truth was the the national interest test was already in place and a group of individuals better qualified than the Minister had already said it met the criteria.

So ensuring that taxpayer money is well spent is actually a rigorous and expensive exercise. Negotiating with the 'Ministry of Finance' may be the easier option :P.

[multiweb]

Credibility. Although not of interest to any amateur it's a company flagship. A potential FLI customer might look at their range and think if these guys can pull something like this then their more affordable stuff must be good because they know their sh!t so good marketing.

[alpal]

When Bintel was off Toorak Road in Melbourne,
and Roger Davis was there to help it really had some credibility -
but now it's only in Sydney - I wouldn't know.

[multiweb]

Oh I was talking about FLI the manufacturer. I don't think Bintel credibility is in doubt anyway.

[DavidTrap]

Might be something to buff up the value of a grant proposal, only to be replaced with something for a fraction of the cost when the reduced grant comes through???

:shrug:

DT

[Hans Tucker]

Saddleback College got their TEC 250 mm APO refractor from a generous former student. Maybe institutions should forgo the idea of grants and seek out rich students or maybe rich benefactors ... like Leonard did in the Big Bang Theory ... according to Sheldon he had a knack for Gigolo work and daddy need a new Linear Accelerator.

[Constant]

Yep, it'd not surprise me if more of these were sold than you'd think possible. Bintel isn't the only dealer with esoteric gear at stratospheric prices.

[Wussell]

I can't say too much about their customer service, 2 emails, 1 phone call, with a "we will call you back tomorrow" and not a peep from them. I was after some info regarding secondary dew heaters. I will go else where from now on.

[alpal]

Yes - I liked the way Bintel had accessories in stock.
Roger also adjusted my EQ-6 mount for me once -
that was a specialist job and it worked fine afterwards.
(it had arrived from the factory mal-adjusted on the worm gear)

[pmrid]

Your cynicism is showing.

[Zuts]

I have been dealing with Bintel for 15 years and have always had good service from them.

1. Recently i blew up my mount (reverse polarity), i got a board directly from skywatcher and Bintel installed it for free.
2. They helped me install a focus motor on my CPC for free
3. They have collimated scopes for me free of charge

and many other instances over the years to numerous to mention ...

P.S regards email, did you check your spam folder?

[RB]

Can we please get back on topic?
This thread is not about Bintel's customer service.

RB

[AstralTraveller]

The thing is that the grant money is not paid to the academic(s) but to the administering institution and then the academic has to put in a purchase request. It is possible to vary slightly how a grant is spent but changing one of the large items would require considerable justification. Also reports have to be sent back to the ARC on how the money was spent and also what results have come from the equipment (not the data - papers, PhD completions etc). If you misspend or under-perform you won't get any more ARC money.

As an example of what can be done, when I was working there was a grant to add an input device to an existing mass spectrometer. Included in that was money to upgrade the backing pumps in the MS from rotary oil pumps to dry scroll pumps. But before the upgrade happened one of the turbo pumps pooped its bearings so we applied to not do the backing pump upgrade and instead spend the money on a new turbo. That was OK. But if we had wanted to not buy the Kiel device and instead get the cheaper gas-bench I believe we would have had issues. I don't know what would have happened because I've never seen anyone try a trick like that.

[N1]

Because they can, and to generate web traffic & interest in their other offerings

[AdamJL]

I'll take 4

[middy]

I bought one as a guide cam. Works pretty good. :P