Considering SW NEQ6 - Espirit ED80

[abetts]

Hi All,
I've been doing a bit of wide field (milky way) astro photography and I'm now considering taking the next step into DSO AP. I've done a little research on some equipment and decided I would like a quick refractor and a reasonably sturdy mount/tripod. Unfortunately there seems to be limited stock on many items at many of the Australian online stores but I've managed to find availability on an Sky Watcher Espirit ED80 and NEQ6 Pro mount/tripod. Are these reasonable items to start out with?

I believe the Espirit also comes complete with a field flattener/reducer. I was also originally chasing an EQ6-R mount to get the belt drive but I can't find one in stock. Is it likely that I would realistically notice any difference between the NEQ6 and EQ6R?

At this stage I'm hoping these two items and T-adapter for Nikon D750 will be enough to get me started. Or am I missing some critical items?

Value peoples experience and constructive thoughts.

Regards,

Ashley

[raymo]

They are eminently suitable, and many an older member like me would have given their back teeth for such a rig, but it all really comes down to whether you firmly intend to remain with an ED80 or ED100, or graduate to larger scopes. The NEQ6 is overkill for an ED80, an HEQ5 would do nicely. If however you are likely to go larger than an ED100 or 6" Newtonian, the NEQ6 would be needed.
Those items you mentioned are sufficient to get you started with learning the dark art of AP, doing unguided subs up to about 60-90secs,
depending on your polar alignment accuracy, but you will need a guide scope and camera, or off axis guider, for longer subs.
raymo

[abetts]

Thanks for the confirmation raymo.

I did realise the NEQ6 was probably overkill for the ED80 but I think it is likely I will go further once I recover from the initial outlay.

I think I will be happy for a while learning in the sub range that you mentioned. I took an image of Orions Nebula the other night with my 300mm 3.5/f lens on the tripod and enjoyed the process and what I got to see. I was really quite surprised at how quick things move at 300mm. I've been use to 15mm. Had to ratchet back to 2sec shutter speed to avoid extremely obvious star trails. High ISO, lots of noise, the image was pretty ho hum but it put a smile on my face seeing it.

Regards,

Ashley

[jahnpahwa]

Sounds good to me. I'd throw a Baader zoom eyepiece at that kit too, so you can have a look visually sometimes and I really liked mine for polar aligning too. The zoom is good to have, get the alignment star centred at wider setting, zoom in and refine centring, super quick and easy, and far more useful in general than a reticle.
I'd not be waiting around for the eq6r to come back in stock.

[Startrek]

There is a difference between the NEQ6 ( EQ6 ) and the EQ6-R
The EQ6-R out of the box has minimal backlash on both Dec and Ra and better tracking and guiding performance
I have 2 x EQ6-R mounts at 2 different locations with different payloads
The best mount in its class ( 20kg to 22kg ) for the money without a doubt !!

[Camelopardalis]

Ashley, welcome to Ice in Space!

To set your expectations, the Esprit 80 isn’t designed for a full frame camera, so if fully corrected and illuminated across the entire sensor is a requirement, then you will need to look at other options.

I’ve customised my NEQ6 over the years, but if I was buying a new one now, I’d go for the EQ6-R.

[abetts]

Thanks janhpawha, Martin and Dunk. Great info.

Martin, I was certainly keen on the EQ6-R but I can't find anyone with one in stock. I asked Peter at Astro Anarchy and he mentioned he doesn't have a reliable ETA on them so I'm inclined to go with the NEQ6 rather than risk an undefined wait.

Dunk, many thanks for the welcome! Interesting point you bring up about the sensor coverage. I had wondered how much of the sensor was going to be covered but assumed it would be at least APS-C. Out of curiosity, how can I determine this coverage from the scope specs?

[Startrek]

Have you contacted Tasco Sales in Sydney ( Skywatcher Australia ) direct ?? They are the sole importer of the Skywatcher brand. Unless you buy off shore through UK or US suppliers
Martin

[Outcast]

According to BINTEL website, EQ6-R is in stock...

https://www.bintel.com.au/product/skywatcher-eq6-r-pro-synscan/?v=322b26af01d5

[Camelopardalis]

Different manufacturers provide different information about the imaging circle of their scopes, and it is sometimes listed on some more detailed websites.

In this case, it's mentioned on page 7 of the manual:

"The Sky-Watcher ESPRIT 80 Field flattener has been specifically designed for your telescope. It guarantees excellent field flatness across the entire 33 mm imaging plane and ensures full illumination with extremely minimized halation and zero color fringing even on bright objects."

I have the Esprit 100 and the specs list 40mm. I have used my Canon 6D (also full frame) with my scope and you really had to look closely at the stars right in the corner to see that they were true to their word.

[abetts]

Well, the budget has become more like a guideline which has been cast away with reckless abandon :)

I ordered an EQ6R from bintel. Thanks Carlton for pointing out they had them, I must of had a boys looks before, and Martin for the additional guidance.

I've also decided to step up to the Esprit ED100 (now ordered as well) as I realised I would spend an additional $1000 for it but probably wouldn't be forking out $3.5K on top of ED80 to attain one for quite some time. Thanks Dunk for pointing out how to interpret the specs. Now that you point it out it is obvious. I glanced over 'Diameter of the corrected field' entry without understanding its significance first time around.

[Outcast]

That's pretty standard in this hobby isn't it?

[jahnpahwa]

Fantastic :)

[Camelopardalis]

Congrats Ashley, that's quite a rig to get started with :thumbsup:

You've be needing a guiding solution next ;)

[abetts]

Thanks guys, I'm so excited I think I've checked the tracking numbers 3 times in the last hour ;)

I'm also pretty sure there will be a guiding solution in my near future Dunk. Swiftly followed by some other critical component :) Might just need to live on bread and water for the next few months to achieve it.

[Camelopardalis]

Yeah it’s a slippery slope for sure :rofl:

[abetts]

Have now received both the scope and mount and managed to get a few happy snaps over the past few days. Very happy with the choice. Realising how much alignment is important at these focal lengths however. Thanks to all of you for helping me get kick started. I think the guiding solution may be closer in my future than I had expected ;)

[Camelopardalis]

Nice one Ashley :thumbsup:

Defo work on your polar alignment, as guiding is meant to compensate for tracking errors and not poor polar alignment...you would still get field rotation showing up.

[abetts]

Yes, good point Dunk. I must say I haven't spent as much time so far on polar aligning as I'd hoped. As I was trying to capture Jupiter/Saturn it was roughed out with compass and inclinometer during the last light of day. Had a quick play after taking shots of planets to see if I could smarten it up but got lost a few times. I'm very much a conceptual person so the rote learning of drift this way move this way wasn't working for me but since I found a good article on this site about alignment I think it is now forming in my minds eye. I'll have another crack tonight if the sky permits.

Hope you guys had a great Christmas.

[Startrek]

Your Synscan hand controller has an in built feature for polar alignment if you want to use it. I’ve used it for over 3 years now and get my PA error below an arc minute every time in about 5 minutes or so
Originally I used a centering eye piece ( Orion 20mm 70 deg illuminated reticle eye piece) for alignment for the first year which was excellent then after that used my DSLR on BYEOS which I still use to this day. There are numerous ways to polar align using software and cameras etc but the Synscan is free it’s included in your hand controller, all you need for now is a good centering eye piece like the one above.
I have a step by step procedure for Synscan Polar alignment routine if your interested
Let me know
Cheers
Martin

[Pepper]

I used to use a illuminated reticle eyepiece too, but found it to be an unreliable bit of junk. or id accidentally left it turned on from the last session and the batteries had gone flat.
Now, like martin i use BYNikon to centre the camera.

[Startrek]

Pepper
Only the 12.5mm centering eye pieces are junk , the Orion 20mm 70 deg illuminated reticle eye piece which I used originally for my imaging scopes and now use it for my 12” Goto dob for visual astronomy is excellent, wide field , good eye relief , quality optics
They are chalk and cheese when comparing the crappy Celestron or other brands 12.5mm to the Orion 20mm 70 deg eye piece
I bought a 12.5mm when I started and couldn’t see anything, gave it away , then bought the Orion 20mm 70 deg and wow what a difference, an excellent centering eye piece !!
Cheers
Martin

[Camelopardalis]

Yeah I’ve never memorised the right way to slow the drift, but I often use the DARV method, and this is implemented in software tools such as APT. It’s pretty quick and easy to get decent enough polar alignment once you’ve done it a few times.

It’s one of those things where it comes down to practice...

[abetts]

Thanks guys, some more great tips.

I've now tried the SynScan method a few times thanks to Martin's suggestion. I've managed to convince it that the mount is well aligned (within a few seconds for both elevation and azimuth) but yet I still can see minor star trails in 10 second exposures. I'm therefore not convinced it is really aligned. I realise this could be purely operator error but it appears to stay on the star during any following recalibrations. I'm using the finder scope as it has a reticle. Maybe the limited magnification is introducing too much error for the main scope? Another thought I had was, I haven't trained for PEC as yet.

Thanks for mentioning the DARV method Dunk. I had read about it sometime back and struggled to find it again recently. I've had a quick crack but need to hone in slewing speed and embed slewing direction into brain.

Cheers,

Ashley

[Camelopardalis]

Ashley, hooking up a laptop gives you more options, whether it’s connecting through the hand controller or with an EQ direct cable (my preference is the latter).

Software such as APT can be mount aware and can control the slew speed for you :)

[abetts]

I've been thinking along these lines. I'm considering an ASIAIR Pro to avoid a dedicated laptop.

[Camelopardalis]

You don’t need a dedicated laptop, pretty much any one will do, as deep sky imaging is not an intensive process.

Planetary is a different kettle of fish...

[Rerouter]

Dunk, can I ask what about planetary is so intensive? or is it for live stacking at multiple captures per second?

[Camelopardalis]

It’s the data write speed. When chasing planets (and to some extent, the Moon), to get the most out of the conditions it’s best to capture at high frame rates, and that requires good and consistent write speed. Not so hard to achieve these days with the price of SSD, but any type of spinning disk will not be fast enough and it’ll drop too many frames.

FWIW, a fast 80mm scope is not what is typically used to chase planets, it’s more of a wide field scope :)