suggestion - 8" newt or ed80

[cjpops]

Hi all.


I previously had a 12" dob and now looking into getting involved in Astrophotography. Being able to get deep sky objects (nebulae etc) and planets. With most of the scope items out of stock due to covid etc I've got time to have a think about my setup plans.



I'm trying to decide between a SW ED80 or a 8" SW Newt, but I've been reading that a Newt might be much more challenging for a beginner.



I'll be using a Nikon 7100.


It will be on either on a HEQ5 or EQ6 mount (still deciding on this one too)


I should add, I would like the ability to use the setup for non-astrophotography as my kids like to have a play and view the planets - my understanding the ED80 would be unsuitable for those kind of viewing?


Would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks all!

[multiweb]

An ED80 is a great grab and go scope for imaging. I had one for years and used it a lot.

[Ryderscope]

Craig,

One thing to consider is that deep sky and planetary imaging are two separate disciplines each with their own technical requirements and challenges. Either the Newt or the ED80 can get you started on both but longer term you would find the need to diverge into a set up that is dedicated to one or the other. In terms of visual observing of planets at longer focal lengths, the 8" Newt would be a better choice.

The native field of view with the Nikon 7100 and either the Newt or ED80 would be such that planetary images would be very small. A 2x or 3x barlow would be required to get a reasonable field of view. This isn't a reason to not do this but is just something to be aware of.

My view FWIW, is to start on deep sky with an ED80. Either the HEQ5 or the EQ6 would do the job though the EQ6 will give you more room for growth so if the budget supports this I would go there first.

Whilst I haven't used the ED80 for imaging I would assume that the out of the box configuration for this OTA will not have a flat field so you will find that the stars on the edge of the field of view will be curved or elongated. For getting started with imaging my view is that this is fine, it may be necessary though to crop out the nasty edges to get a good image. Again, this is ok but good to be aware of when you see the first images rolling off the production line.

As a future growth item it would be good to plan for the installation of a focal reducer which can help to improve the flat field. This also throws in additional challenges with the need for very accurate spacing so no need to go there until the time is right.

There are other issues as well to take into account such as lens mount adapters and spacing for backfocus to be sure that you can reach focus with the camera connected. This will depend on which OTA you go with. It is good to be aware of this now rather than bumping into it later if you can't reach focus with the camera connected.

So there you have it. Good luck on this journey Craig.

Clear skies,
Rodney

[Startrek]

For Astrophotography I’ve used 6” and 8” newts write from the start , still use them after nearly 4 years
Also used a 10” dob at the start for visual and now have a 12” Goto dob for visual
An 8” f5 Bintel newt on an EQ6-R mount is what I use for imaging at my dark site on the south coast NSW and in Sydney I use a 6” f6 Bintel newt on an EQ6-R mount
Got nothing against refractors expect they are costly , require more accessories, flattened , f reducers and the like and restricted a little by aperture and focal length. My 8” f5 newt cost me $455.00 2 years ago , the 6” f6 cost me $299 just over 3 years ago . A good triplet APO refractor at 80 to 100 is going to set you back +$2000 then add the accessories
Both newts are easy to collimate , clean and lifting is no issue ( I’m 60 yrs old , only 65kg wringing wet )
Now if you go for a newt and choose an f4 as a beginner then it’s going to be more difficult to use and collimate etc.. I wouldn’t recommend an f4 newt as a beginner, f5 is the sweet spot for me now and in the future
My recommendation is a newt only because I’ve used them successfully over the last 3 years or so

Good luck with your choice
PS: check out some of my images in the beginners Astrophotography section over the past couple of months

[Startrek]

Forgot to mention I do both Planetary and Deep Sky imaging with both newts
Cheers

[glend]

Go with the Newt, but buy a GSO imaging newt, the SW newts do not have the same mirror quality in my experience.

[cjpops]

Thanks for all your input guys much appreciated.


Would i be crazy if i get the Skywatcher ED80 for deep space astro and a saxon 8" newt for planetary viewing and astro?

[RyanJones]

Hi Craig,

My advice would be to decide which mount first. I run an 8” f/4 on a HEQ5 pro and although not impossible, it has been hard work and taken a reasonable amount of time testing etc to get it to run smoothly and consistently because of the weight. Like I said, not impossible but I’d imagine quite frustrating for a beginner. I sometimes think if I’d had my time again if I would have either bought an NEQ6 or stuck with a 6” f/5 which would also have been easier to collimate. I haven’t used an ED so I can’t speak for them.

[Startrek]

No you wouldn’t be crazy but disappointed
The 8” f5 newt will expose so much more detail on most Deep Sky objects, even a 6” newt will expose more than the ED80
Check my images out in the beginners imaging section and I’m still a beginner
I started with a Canon 600D DSLR which I used for both Deep Sky and Planetary. I still use the DSLR for planetary.Now I use a new cooled OSC camera which is unbelievable in both newts !!!

[cjpops]

Thanks again everyone. Martin, I've checked out your pics.. impressive!! hope to eventually achieve the same.



I have my eyes set on a bundle at astro anarchy - a Skywatcher newt 8" with a Neq6 mount but it's on pre order and no ETA as yet - looks like the other stores are out of stock too.

[Startrek]

Strongly recommend the Bintel GSO 8” f5 newt on an EQ6-R mount for imaging ( see if Bintel can do you a deal !
GSO newts have slightly better mirrors and their focusers are so much better
I have both GSO newts and Skywatcher newts so I can confirm from experience with both. Don’t scrimp on a few bucks saving if you can help it
My 2 cents....
PS most telescope suppliers are waiting on stock from China anyway

[astro744]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with viewing the planets with the ED80. The views are impressive up to 150-180x given the right eyepiece. In fact there would be many a night when the ED80 would show a better image than an 8" Newt. Of course under very good seeing conditions the Newt would excel.

Note the ED80 can be considered as a poor mans Tele Vue TV76/TV85. I don't own a TV76/TV85 but do have the TV60, ED80 and TV101 and visually I do prefer the clean views they give with almost no cool down time required. The only thing lacking in a refractor is the brighter images capable in a larger instrument at the same magnification.

As for astrophotography, when the ED80 first came out it was the instrument of choice for many (mainly due to low cost). You will need a reducer/corrector/field flattener of some sort. (The older model William Optics 0.8x (II) works well).

[Wilsil]

I use the ED80 as a beginner and love it.
Surely I want a bigger scope to go "deeper" but first I want to learn how to do it.
Also the ED80 is easy to take with you to a dark site as it is reasonable compact.

[cjpops]

Thanks guys - would I be right thinking the Star Adventure 2 wouldn't be able to handle the weight of a ED80/8" newt and other bits and bobs on it?


** edit, Actually no.. I'll have to be patient for the eq6 mount stock to become available or a 2nd hand.

[cjpops]

I've noticed there's a new Skywatcher Evolux ED82 refractor, was wondering if this would be a better option over the ed80? it's a couple of hundred dollars more.

[jahnpahwa]

Those have been slated for imminent delivery for a fair few months now. I haven't seen anyone review them. Theyre still doublets by the look of things, maybe nicer focusers? Still in the same boat regarding flattener, etc.

If it was me, I'd go the ye olde ED80, with runs on the board and available. But I'm conservative in most ways other than politics.

[cjpops]

Is there any difference with the 'Evostar' and 'pro series' Skywatcher ED80's?


Been reading up reviews online and noticed some of the SW ED80 has Evostar on the side and some don't.

[Startrek]

Craig
Since your keen on starting out with a small refractor for Astrophotography eg ED80 just keep in mind your total payload on the mount you select and whether in the future you may go for a larger scope at some stage
General rule of thumb or recommended max payload for AP ( telescope , imaging camera , guide scope, guide camera , flatterers , adapters , finder scope, dewheaters, cables , hubs , power supplies , dove bars etc. etc..... ) should be no heavier than 60% to 65% of the total rated payload of the mount
Examples
Skywatcher HEQ5 mount max payload rating 13kg ( recommended max AP payload rating 9kg )
Skywatcher NEQ6 mount max payload rating 20kg ( recommended max AP payload rating 13kg )
Skywatcher AZEQ6 mount max payload rating 22kg ( recommended max AP payload rating 15kg )
Skywatcher EQ6-R mount max payload rating 20kg ( recommended max AP payload rating 15kg ) *** this mount has a slightly higher AP payload rating than the previous older model NEQ6 or EQ6

The types of refractors your looking at to get started with are only around 2.5 to 3.0 kg then adding your AP gear would bring the total AP payload to around 5 to 6 kg
So the HEQ5 would suit your needs now but if you decide later on to buy an 8” newt then you would need a larger mount like a EQ6-R mount as the AP payload on an 8” f5 newt is around 14 to 15kg
Hope the above makes sense and provides some insight into Astrophotography payloads and sizing the most appropriate mount
Good luck with your choice and hope your get up and running soon
Cheers
Martin

[cjpops]

Thanks for that info Martin much appreciated, I've got my eyes set on the NEQ6 Pro but after your information i might have to consider the EQ6-R model for future proofing.

[Startrek]

Craig
EQ6-R mount Excellent choice , I have 2 of them
The later model (2019 onwards) have an additional USB3 port so you can cable direct to your laptop with a USB3 cable to control the mount
The older models only had the RJ45 data port ( hand controller port ) which required a special EQ direct cable ( Shoestring Astronomy ) to allow the mount to communicate to the laptop
I have both models the old and the new
Also Skywatcher mounts are designed to use EQMOD to control them via your preferred planetarium or capture software, another plus for Skywatcher mounts
Cheers
Martin

[ChrisV]

I've got both but started with an ed80 type scope. Recommend the ed80 - so much easier, given there's so much other stuff to figure out with AP

[cjpops]

Ended up ordering a 8" newt and a NEQ6 Pro now getting a bit nervous learning this new curve. Hopefully it all works out over time.

Thanks everyone.

[cjpops]

Hi all, just wondering if this would be ok to power the NEQ6?
https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/sca-sca-12v-2400-amp-8-cylinder-heavy-duty-jump-starter/562418.html?cgid=SCA01060201#gclid= EAIaIQobChMImODRg-qc7QIVKZVLBR1nkQAXEAAYASAAEgKa0fD_B wE&gclsrc=aw.ds&start=3

[xelasnave]

That is a very high price to pay for what exactly..looks fancy but I could not find the battery capacity...anyways why not just buy a good deep cycle battery? It will be better than that thing I bet...so what to do ...put a switch in line and permanently wire the eq6 power lead to the battery...plus by a $25 2 amp battery charger from Kmart ...with all the money left over you could buy a 200 watt inverter to charge your lap top...and with all the money you still haven't spent get take a ways pizza for dinner and a six pack.

Addition edit..it says 2400 amps ??? I can't figure that out?.? I recently paid 5 k from memory for 1300 amp hours so something does not seem right...anyways check out deep cycle batteries...do you know anything about battery capacity and working out what you need? I use 120 amp hour battery and change everything to 240 volt via a 200 watt inverter...if just to power your mount a $150 battery will do the job.
Don't forget a fuse.
Alex

[JA]

Very good point Alex. Digging a little deeper (in the User Manual, linked below) it contains TWO 12V 22Amp.hour batteries. i.e: 44 Ah Storage.
https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/on/demandware.static/-/Library-Sites-supercheap-shared-library/default/dw2aa8642a/productsheets/562418.pdf

That it contained TWO such batteries really surprised me knowing the size of the unit and of a typical battery around that size, UNTIL I saw the back of the thing it is double the typical depth of such devices and weighs in at ~16kg, but at $350-ish, I take your point: no. Just buy an appropriate deep cycle battery

Best
JA

[xelasnave]

Here is a battery of greater capacity (although it says one amp more I bet it will be further ahead of what supercheap unit actually rates at ..).. and I expect just superior quality for a lot less...just add a cigarette plug ..forget my wire idea it's just that I like good connections...I think there is a fuse in the eq6 lead..I will check mine later...but please don't buy that thing it's for mugs..in my view.

This company is the place to get your batteries ... this is where solar power started and if you have a problem they are not going anywhere..I buy from them and you must know how demanding a customer I am...


https://www.rpc.com.au/catalog/ritar-sealed-agm-battery-12v-45ah-p-2443.html

What we should do is for you to list what the battery will power..maybe only the mount now but if you are going to do photography there is a camera, maybe a cooler, and a lap top, and a dew heater perhaps...

Alex

[cjpops]

Thanks everyone. Will look into it.

In the meantime, I have a external power point - was wondering if this would be powerful enough to support the NEQ6?
https://www.jaycar.com.au/12vdc-7-5a-switchmode-power-supply-mains-to-cigarette-lighter-socket/p/MP3575

I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed with the size and weight of the NEQ6, hopefully i can work this out soon.

Cheers

[xelasnave]

7.5 amps is more than enough so it should be fine.

Don't be overwhelmed ..I can manage it.. I am 74 and pass for a cripple..the handle makes all the difference and just move slow and deliberate.

I will get one of those 240 to the cigarette lighter plug...although everything comes from a 12 volt battery I want a 240 volt system...I have my reasons.

Anyways $50 is a far better solution than $350 off grid power is really not that romantic..if you have grid be happy and use it..much cheaper in the long run.


There must be a 240 volt to 12 volt unit that you can plug straight in...I can understand their (Skywatcher) approach however as just picking up a 240 to 12 volt is not the answer if you don't ensure correct amps an the mount wants it's correct power.

Good luck...just get it going and enjoy it..I have had an eq6 since they first came out and very happy with my new one...pier mounted so I don't have to worry about carrying it...but in moving it about I was surprised how the handle made it much more managable..haven't pulled it down yet as it runs rather well.

Alex

[cjpops]

Thanks Alex.

Looking at my NEQ6 - it doesn't seem to come with a handle - not sure why it doesn't have it considering the weight.

Will get that socket and start to have a play with it.

[xelasnave]

You can make a handle that fits where you put the scope.. hold it in place the same way as if it were a scope...it really helps..I had such on my old eq6...don't know where it is these days or I would post a photo...two bits of wood forming a t section..one part is held by the mount the other bit you have a hole for your hand...
Alex