The ongoing joke that is NBN

[LewisM]

We have had regular "by end of [insert month/date]" news about the NBN where we live for 3 years. Last pushback was till June 2020, and with it rapidly coming to an end, I checked status on NBN and Telstra.


Lo and behold, it says Ready to Connect (FTTC.... GRRRR). So, I start the change-over, and up pops "Due to COVID 19 we have significant delays and we strongly recommend you do not attempt to join the backlog queue" or something like that. So, I gave up again.


We shall suffer 6.9Mbps up, 0.28down for probably another months I guess.

[peter_4059]

We had similar issues at the start but worth it when it finally arrives!

[rrussell1962]

For us about the same speed as ADSL and drops out at least twice a day. The Telstra modem / router periodically refuses to connect to http sites (as opposed to https) which needs a reset to fix. Utter rubbish.

[Xeteth]

Sucks Lewis, I'm lucky to have a great connection but a mate of mine has suffered on a worse than dialup connection for about 5 years and has also been waiting for NBN. They've delayed it at least a year from initial forecast... don't think there's much you can do :(

A quick tip for those out there who are on Telstra since it's relevant. If you're having issues with your service (NBN, phone, whatever) - when you call up to try to get help make sure you lodge a complaint. Literally say the words "I would like to lodge an official complaint about this issue" and do not hang up the phone until they give you the complaint number.

Once that's done, you should be assigned a case manager - generally someone who doesn't just read off a script and can actually provide assistance. I've been navigating the woes of Telstra for a good 15 years and this is the best method I've found. Also feel free to ask your case manager for compensation for any issues you've had. I reckon I've had at least $500+ removed from my bills over the past 2-3 years through doing this.

[LewisM]

Agree Richard. Telstra informs us we cannot get over 44 Mbps with the NBN due to the FTTC technology.


Why they won't even offer us NBN Satellite...yet a mere 10km away they have it.

[LewisM]

Yup, been doing just that since moving to Canberra. We've been waived 3 months of fees, given 2 new modems gratis (including one with the backup 4G ability), and most recent was $270 credit for ongoing issues.

Most pathetic thing is the Defence business hub literally spitting distance from us has had NBN for the past 3 months yet the last 50 metres seems to befuddle Telstra no end. The wiring etc was done 2 years ago right to our house (we were slated for FTTP, now its FTTC), and then...nothing. And still...nothing.

[rrussell1962]

28 down, about 9.6 up for us. I could maybe get a bit more by tidying up the cabling to the house (old screw terminal) but Telstra said that they can't do a lot better in our location and offered me a lower plan which would give the same speeds at less cost. Not what was spruiked a few years ago.

[Camelopardalis]

Our NBN service on the Sunny Coast is great. FTTP, 100 up and down, never missed a beat...

[The_bluester]

I would not complain about Fibre to the curb, those of us on fixed wireless would love to get that. Beautiful timing for them to cut three quarters of our upload speed for an almost indiscernible improvement in download speed, just in time to start working from home under COVID conditions. if 5G ever appears out here (All of an hour form the Melbourne CBD) and pricing is comparable, the NBN will shrivel and die in the FW footprint.

[mswhin63]

I am surprised that you can't get more than 44M for FTTC, I was able to get more with FTTN back in WA.

All satellite connections are restricted as the user rate goes up the maximum speed goes down. So there have to be strict guidelines. It will be interesting to see what Starlink will offer. Plus satellite is expensive. We could never use it for working at home. Why it goes down, I am not about to show the math even though it is one of the simplest engineering math it is still boring for most people. As an RF & Satcom engineer, I think that would be better left alone.

I am potentially looking at urban living but need to get more information on Fixed Wireless as South Australian regional towns are flooded with FW.

[The_bluester]

FW is lucky dip download wise.

Unfortunately they several months ago cut the maximum upload speed, initially it was supposedly to 5mbps, now it is 10 apparently, but I have not seen anything as "Blazing" as 10meg up in months, before when it was 20meg up we used to normally see about 15, now I am lucky to see 6. Digital divide firmly entrenched here.

[mswhin63]

Yep as expected, this is the famous user rate goes up the speed goes down issue. I would like to know more about the technology they are using to determine whether they can upgrade or whether it is a case of steer clear of FW areas.

[DavidTrap]

Friend is on FTTC via TPG and is on 100/40. Biggest rate limiting step for FTTC is the copper link between your house and the curb. If it’s old and dodgy, you won’t get good speeds. It can be replaced. Telstra don’t want to have that argument with customers so don’t let you ask for anything above 50/20.

Satellite has latency of ~600 msec. I occasionally connect to a remote observatory via NBN Satellite (when the 4G link is down) - useable, but only just. Download speeds are ok, but it takes a while to wind up the rubber band. They use the satellite for data backhaul.

DT

[The_bluester]

When it was 50/20 a tower was not considered in need of upgrade until users were getting less then 6mbps down in peak times, urgent was 3. Now it is “Up to” 100meg and it is fine so long as you can get 25meg download at ANY time of day. 25.01 mbps at 3am, all good.

[mswhin63]

This is where good management of your data transfers can help. Planning for uploading and downloading at specific times usually takes the strain of the system.

Towers usually only affect people at longer distances, it is as you said upgrading to 50/20 it where it really starts to play an important role. Although as more users go up the distance for good reception goes down as well. So much to consider, but as long as they continue to upgrade there is a chance for me.

Curious does FW have unlimited accounts like Fibre plans in the Urban areas?

[PCH]

Why do we use FTTC instead of the correct FTTK?

Here in Oz we spell the edge of the road as KERB, not CURB!

Just saying...

[The_bluester]

You can't plan your uploads when teleworking though. And to be honest, performance that is really hurting me (Upload) is a plain vanilla roughly 6mbps all day, every day anyway. The decision (Rooted in the idea that it is all about download, showing how little the people making the decisions actually understand) to cut the upload rate stymies work from home to a large degree. I have to work locally, log in to the companies VPN only when vital, and log out of it again when it is not. Unfortunately it means a lot of apps which take ages to open (GIS apps mainly) and work best via a remote desktop rather than VPN (By keeping the bulk data transfer inside the corporate network) fall over every time I need something that requires VPN. Not only does it take a long time to sync and upload, I burn another 5 minutes re opening programs every time I have to do it. Those lucky enough to be on just about any other tech sit on the VPN all day and use a citrix remote desktop within that for the really data hungry stuff.


PCH, we probably imported whoever did the naming.

[glend]

As the real estate guys like to say, location, location, location. I have no issues with NBN performance at all, but I live within 100m of the fibre node box, even though that last 100m is over copper probably installed over 40 years ago when the area was built up. My area is still classed as rural, but ping response to say a Sydney router is less than a few ms. Download speed tests consistenly provide lowest of 12mb, but usually 20mb, and that is fine with me. I am on a budget plan with TPG. I am retired so I don't have to work from home or fight the Netflix bubbles that seem to happen each evening as workers get home, or fire up The Handmaid Tale.
Best time of day is anytime after midnight till dawn, haha.

[multiweb]

We still have a bit over 200m over copper in my area but I still get 40/10 on a good day, 20/5 on a bad one. I went from dialup in the mid 90s to ADSL1 then ADSL2 and finally NBN. When ADSL started it was quite fast but slowed down dramatically with the rising number of connections. NBN is a lot faster than anything else we've had but it does slow down occasionally early evening when everybody's streaming on it I guess. When I download 30MB in a few seconds I remember setting up the dialup modem at 18:00 and check in the morning again before going to work. That's about how much you could download over 12h if there was no disconnection with ozemail at the time.

[UniPol]

We've had NBN here in the upper blue mountains for two years now and it has been faultless, really can't tell the difference to the old ADSL. The phone works perfectly well. Just done a speed test and the results are shown in the attached image.

[AndyG]

We chose our house 5yrs ago with the expectation that it would be FTTP. I couldn't tolerate any less.

[AndyG]

Indeed, Aussie BB Fixed Wireless has unlimited accounts. I'd expect many others would too. A friend recently switched over from Telstra FW, 500Gb/month to Aussie BB unlimited, for $20 less.

[GrahamL]

We are the same speed as you Tony in a new estate , when we changed over wasnt to impressed to start with now it seems to handle multiple people streaming without issue and it is 20/month cheaper.

[Exfso]

Lewis, FTTC is much better than FTTN which I have and I get 95/38 pretty well all the time and the node is 150metres away. With FTTC, your fiber basically comes to the front footpath, where as FTTN goes to the Node which can be up to 1 km away, so I do not believe the best they can offer is 44Mbps, sounds very sus to me.:screwy:

[LewisM]

Well, here is copy and paste from trying to establish an NBN connection:


"Great! You can connect to the nbn™ network via Fibre to the Curb (https://www.telstra.com.au/internet/nbn#fttc) technology. Actual FTTC speeds will be confirmed once you’re connected."



"As your nbn connection type is not HFC or FTTP, unfortunately Premium speed is not available." (apparently rated only to 88Mpbs anyway)



So, that puts us in the Standard Plus only option (or budget), and this means:



44Mbps
Standard Plus Evening Speed
(nbn tier 50)

Typical evening speeds between 7pm-11pm*
Download speeds* – 44Mbps
Upload speeds* – 15Mpbs
Sometimes we go even faster. From Sep 2019 - Feb 2020, most customers experienced average evening download speeds of 45Mbps
Great for homes with multiple people sharing the internet at the same time. Stream HD movies and TV. Download and upload large files.


Thanks Telstra, thanks :( Still, a darned side better than the current ADSL 1 with it's glorious max of 7 Mbps down, 0.28 Mpbs up...

[LewisM]

And this is the message I get when trying to change to the NBN:


Temporary pause on switches to nbn
Switches to Telstra nbn are paused for now due to COVID-19 impacts. Until you can switch to the nbn, Telstra will keep your internet and home phone connected, so you don’t need to do anything.
If you still want to continue and place a backorder, keep in mind there will be extended delays. We recommend you don’t make changes at this time. We’re sorry for the inconvenience.

[DavidTrap]

Telstra refused to port my number to mynetfone for a couple of months due to COVID. Eventually it went through.

I would suggest trying another service provider for the NBN. Aussie Broadband are awesome! You don’t have to stay with Telstra.

DT

[LewisM]

David,


When we moved here, we tried to bring our provider with us - Westnet. They tried for 2 months to get a port from Telstra, but gave up and apologised. I then had Telstra connect us. Took 1 month before they told us they had no record of our connection request...and then another 3 weeks to finally get connected - on ADSL 1 (they refused to put in ADSL 2 because they told us the NBN would be in 4 months...3 years ago...).


Telstra all but refuses to give anyone else a port out here. Ombudsman failed to achieve anything either. In the end, for the first 9 months we were "double ported" with a data centre down the road...which gave us near zero connectivity when they uploaded at nights. A Telstra tech sorted that one out, and then Telstra gave us 3 months free internet...


There is a Yank expression for all this, involving clusters and fornication.:rofl:

[DavidTrap]

The "ports" you're talking about were ADSL ports, and yes, those were limited in the exchanges to a certain number for each provider.

Telstra doesn't control who gets a port on the NBN. Best way it was described to me was that the NBN builds a "road" to your home and the provider uses their "car" to deliver the internet to you on the NBN's road. You can choose which ever car you want to drive.

[mswhin63]

Teleworking is not my only gripe if I decide to move to rural areas. My wife being profoundly Deaf, uses sign language to communicate and rely heavily on upload speeds being high for her video communication, including video interpreting. Right this moment, she is chatting away.

For this technology, the Upload/Download rate is running purely by statistics. The ratio of Download to Upload is based on consumer demand on average. Working from home may increase this stat but only for a short time. For the most part, while streaming video keeps going at this rate, then the ratio will remain the same.

The ratio is limited by bandwidth as with everything else so if the upload was to increase download would have to decrease. Wouldn't bother me, but streamers would complain and commercially would be detrimental.

The only thing that can be done is to manage this, preferably in an automated way individually, but that will cost money and not sure who would implement this.

[AndyG]

As Peter mentioned, what you have (undeniably) read from Telstra has no basis in science or technology. You have x metres (30?) of copper from the street pit to the network boundary (Your 1st phone socket).

I can only excuse their misdirecting you with 2 possibilities:

1. They simply have zero idea of the actual technology in your area. This being relayed to you by a bot, script, or minimum wager who has no idea, nor care what they are selling you. Having known a few who have worked for Telstra, it is famous how one hand is FORBIDDEN to talk to the other.

2. The VDSL router provided by Telstra (for an FTTC job) is possibly very cheap, unable to maintain a decent packet handling rate. Cheap modems in the past could not process packet rates found in the 50+ Mbit range. Of course to Telstra, no VDSL Modems exist outside their catalogue. Perhaps their latest range has improved.. perhaps those handling your case are unaware... ok edit... it's marketing (https://www.itnews.com.au/news/telstra-stops-offering-100mbps-services-for-nbn-fttn-b-c-users-538601).

I cannot believe I'm making excuses for Telstra :P The short version of this: FTTC is better than FTTN, and nobody (with a choice) wants Skymuster Satellite. Under your situation, from what little I know, I'd be taking this up with a better RSP (AussieBB are great), and get that last 30m(?) of copper replaced (at your own expense if need be). Nobody wants to see you suffer like this. Crap internet is a cruel and unusual punishment that nobody here deserves.

[Kal]

This looks like something some ISP's are implementing because they can't guarantee the faster speeds all the time, as per this article:


link (https://www.whistleout.com.au/MobilePhones/News/Telstra-no-longer-sell-NBN-100-plans-to-FTTC-FTTB-FTTN-customers)

[lazjen]

That's pretty damn slack of Telstra, but expected I think. FTTC is supposed to be much better than FTTN.

For our area, it's FTTN. The setup of the node was new, I believe and it's a shame they didn't go further. However, when I applied for NBN, Aussie BB waited on the tech report of the potential speed before I could choose a plan. The tech report was positive over 100/50 from memory. I just chose a lower plan just to save some costs.

[julianh72]

Time to change RSP - FTTC should be able to provide 100 Mbps on virtually ALL connections, but Telstra only offer 100 Mbps plans (and above) to FTTP and HFC residents. Pretty well every other RSP will offer you access to 100 Mbps plans - and you'll probably save some money as well.
https://www.itnews.com.au/news/telstra-stops-offering-100mbps-services-for-nbn-fttn-b-c-users-538601#:~:text=Telstra%20has%20stop ped%20offering%20100Mbps,plan%20whe n%20connecting%20through%20Telstra.

Some RSPs may only allow you to sign up for 50 Mbps initially, but will allow a speed upgrade once your actual attainable line speed has been confirmed. (Note that on FTTC, it is possible that your in-home wiring may have an adverse impact on your attainable speed; and in some cases, the copper lead-in from the street is too long and / or very poor quality; but for most people on FTTC, 100 Mbps is attainable.) Telstra avoid dealing with the whole issue by preventing subscribers from accessing their full attainable speed - and have the gall to charge a premium compared to other RSPs.

[mswhin63]

The possible reason that Telstra does not provide it as too many people expect too much from Telstra in providing the full 100 connection, anything low then people complain. I found out that complaints to the ombudsman cost the providers minimum $40.00 for each message that is transmitted from the ombudsman to the providers. Then there is the cost of handling the complaint and the amount of time for a rep to handle it. For any provider that will add up, so to cover the cost of complaints the simple solution is not to provide it.
I am sure they have done their math and decided the cost outway the income from 100M rates on a low guaranteed connection.

[DavidTrap]

I've heard every complaint to the ombudsman costs them 4 figures - it's why mentioning it in a support call works wonders...

DT

[mswhin63]

Yes, I tried that as well, but my figures came from many years ago, so things may have changed and quite possibly so has the sum. Just confirms that all business decision is based on costs to the business as they get higher and higher every year.

I am in no way support Telstra, but as I used to have a small business that ran on the politics of current governments at the time, I had to make a lot of difficult cost analysis that some people didn't like. Anyway, I tossed it in and now feel better working on a salary.

[PCH]

Back in 2004 I had what was (IMO) a serious business complaint revolving around poor service etc with Optus.

It escalated eventually to the ombudsman who promptly fined them $20k and gave us strict guidelines about how quickly the issue had to be resolved by Optus.

Foolishly they didn’t heed the warning and soon we were in touch with the ombudsman again.

This time the fine was $40k.

Somehow they managed to act more quickly to put things right this time :shrug:

[luka]

Lewis, Telstra has stopped offering 100Mbs plans on new signups. See here (https://www.itnews.com.au/news/telstra-stops-offering-100mbps-services-for-nbn-fttn-b-c-users-538601).

Also I feel like I should clarify a few misconceptions I have seen mentioned above:
1. FTTC Distribution Point Unit (DPU) can be up to 110-150m away from your phone socket. This possibly means up to 150m of the old copper.
The pits (DPUs) in the street are small and can only serve 4 houses. You do not necessarily get connected to the one in front of your house. Our distance to DPU is 120m.

2. The VDSL modem for FTTC is supplied by NBN and not by Telstra.

3. While most of people on FTTC can get 100Mbs, not everybody will.

4. When the technician comes to install the NBN they will measure what speed can be obtained. Before that it is just a guess.


My advice... AussieBroadband.

[The_bluester]

Luke is on the money. FTTC is still a compromise system, and to be honest I have lost interest in how the NBN is going so I have lost track. It was originally proposed to have an upgrade path to FTTP if a resident wanted to pay for what amounted to a fibre haul from whatever distribution point they are connected to but I don't know if that eventuated. But, that said, MOST houses on it should be able to get around 100mbps down.

The problem with Telstra is they have had decades of promising the world with "Up to" speeds and delivering often a small fraction of the promised speeds, and being able to get away with pointing out the "Up to" when they deliver 2mbps not 24. They got well burned by it when fibre to the node turned out to be the unpredictable turkey that pretty much everyone in the industry knew it would be and "Up to" didn't cut the mustard. We on fixed wireless (And maybe satellite) are the only ones where "Up to" works.

The safest, most risk averse option for Telstra was to simply stop offering the higher speed tier, so they did.

[The_bluester]

Time to start logging speeds again, if net connectivity is now part of the USO and 25/5 in peak times is the new mandated standard we might have to start making noise again. While our download speeds would probably pass the new "Peak time" 25mbps test rather than the previous NBN "25MBPS at any time in a 24 hour period" we barely top 5mbps upload at any time of day, let alone in peak times.

Yay, back to proving that my home GigE wired network is not the bottleneck when we are getting sub 5meg in one direction. And knowing my luck it will flatline at 5.00001mbps upload so "It passes sir"

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-02/high-speed-internet-universal-service-obligation-legislation/12415512

[muletopia]

Just tested my speeds
23.59 down
4.72 up


I pay for 25 and 5 so no complaints
Chris

[The_bluester]

I am in theory 100/10 (With that well worn "Up to" prefix) but it is more usually like 25-30/5, down from 30/15 that we used to generally get before we involuntarily traded most of our upload for no better download. 25/6.6 as of right now. I say involuntarily as they certainly did not ask me or any other FW user I know if we wanted to trade at least half of our upload for theoretically more download. If they surveyed anyone they must all have been netflix bingers but I can tell you from bitter experience that you only need about 6mbps down for that to work OK.