first light ASI183mm Pro camera

[gregbradley]

I thought I would enter the CMOS camera game.

I used to have a Starlight Express Trius 694 I used for galaxies and smaller nebs.

Some of these latest CMOS cameras have even higher QE (84%) and extremely low read noise.

I was unable to get it to run in the Sky X (and I can't login to their site to get the latest downloads - is this because they have changed to an Adobe style regular payment?).

But the ASI software worked so it was awkward but I got a good amount of data in luminance. Colour tonight.

40 x 10mins (long exposure for these types of cameras) 1x1 binning medium gain.

Focusing on the small pixels was quite different to focusing on 9micron pixels. This camera has tiny 2.4 micron pixels. I am going for max resolution and counting on the high QE to offset any drop in sensitivity by doing so. Seeing was better than average.

I want to exploit the superb optics of the AP RHA more than I have.

https://pbase.com/image/170629529/large regular size

https://pbase.com/image/170629529/original larger size

Greg.

[John K]

That's a great image Greg,

As a CMOS convert myself, sure, focusing, guiding and the seeing really determine the image quality, but you get amazing detail and resolution like you have achieved in your image - looking at the original, and zooming into the dust lanes, it's a great image you have there.

Look fwd. to seeing the colour version.

Clear skies.

John K.

[gregbradley]

Thanks John. I haven't reached for it until now as my FLI cameras do a good job. But a small sensor with high QE would be just ideal for galaxy imaging with this rig.

The ASI6200 looks like a game changer as well.

Amp glow dark calibrated out easily and there was actually very little in the 10 minute exposures.

I finally got all the softwares updated (my observatory computer is a Windows 7 jobbie). Latest softwares insist on the latest Ascom, Service Pack 1 for Windows 7, a late version of .Net Framework etc etc.

Its taken a day to get it all sorted but now its working in Sky X where my autoguider and filter wheel are. So now its business as usual with the new camera.

I'll have to try this short exposure lots of stacking approach at some point.
Is that still the go or are imagers going for longer exposures now?

I don't see its any different to a normal CCD in that regard. Short exposures though may be sharper due to less guiding errors and seeing effects.

Greg.

[codemonkey]

Nice one Greg, glad the new cam is working out for you.

There's the age-old SNR trade off with exposure length on these cameras, even with the relatively low read noise. I think if you stay away from extremes and consider your target when selecting exposure lengths you'll do fine.

I built up a dark library with 1, 5, 30, 180 and 300s exposures for the two gain settings I use (53 and 111) and don't deviate from those. I basically only use two... 300s for imaging and 1s for flat darks.

[gregbradley]

Thanks Lee. Yes I think I got away with 10 minutes here but a lot of the stars are saturated so 5 minutes makes more sense.

Keeping it simple is a key to success in this game. It can get too complicated very easily and less fun as a result.

Greg.

[Andy01]

Looks promising Greg - bring on the colour! :thumbsup:

[Atmos]

Looking good Greg, I've got a QHY183M on the way at the moment so I'm hoping to join the club shortly :)

You look like you have a fraction amount of tilt on the bottom of the frame. It's not much and it's a tiny sensor but you've got the backing system down pat so it may not take more than 15 minutes ;)

[Placidus]

Looking very fine - smooth and detailed. A great first light with a new camera.



The links to the medium and full size images seem to be the same file.

[cometcatcher]

Nice to see what my camera can do on a good rig. Great image.

[multiweb]

Really nice details. :thumbsup: Looks like a keeper.

[gregbradley]

Thanks Andy. I got some colour last night. Seeing wasn't as good so I might take some more of some of them.



Yes there is a very small amount. I'll see if I can fix it in under 10 minutes and get back to you!



Thanks Mike. I just checked the links and they seem fine. One is simply the larger displayed image or you can click on "original" on the bottom of the displayed image on PBase.



Thanks Kevin. I am wanting to bring out the absolute best performance of the AP Honders. Like anything in this game optimisation is the key.



Thanks Marc. Still learning the camera but now is a good time to get one as there are plenty who have experience with these cameras that can guide you and get it going quickly.

The software support for it also seems to be of a high standard.

The main difficulty I am having is focus. Its harder to focus on these small pixels for some reason. Plus CCDsoft won't run it and I have been using CCDsoft with its large displayed images to focus my scopes for some time.
Perhaps time to master FocusMax! or @focus in the Sky X.

[topheart]

Hi Greg,
Very interesting...
Looks like a game changer!!
Well done!

Yeah, TheSkyX daily build updates require an annual subscription to download now.

I prefer @focus3 to all the other automated focusing systems.....what do you use currently??
Cheers,
Tim

[turbo_pascale]

I'm a proponent of keeping it simple - I just shoot 5 minutes with my gear at -20c and have a library of darks and bias frames and don't fiddle with them. Same goes for flats (I haven't changed my gear config for 3 months). However, I've not been very scientific about it up to this point at all.


But, I recently watched a talk by the author of Sharpcap. It’s quite interesting in regards to exposure length calculation. Way more detail than I ever though about, and more importantly, discusses the differences between CCD and CMOS. I also like that this is based on the math and isn't based on subjective opinion.
I found the info suggesting that going "long" in my configuration was just probably inefficient, and could go much shorter (ie down from 5 minutes to 2 or so). Saves on planes/satellites etc in the subs I guess. The downside is way, way more images to stack as a result.

https://youtu.be/3RH93UvP358

There is a section on gain which he had to skip over, and then he subsequently recorded that separately. This in particular was very interesting around the discussion around gain on the CMOS sensors. Was completely counter intuative to what I would have thought.
https://youtu.be/ub1HjvlCJ5Y

If you own Sharpcap (it's pretty cheap really), it can calculate all this stuff for you (I own it, but haven't had a chance to try out the calculator yet since watching the video)

[gregbradley]

I do it manually and set temp compensation. The Honders is fairly stable temp and focus-wise.

@focus 3 must have kicked in since y last download. Yearly subscription, wow, they are all going that way. Thanks Adobe and Microsoft.
I find Photoshop updates usually are not useful for astro. Hardly any improvements over Photoshop 6 that are useful for astro processing.

Greg.

[gregbradley]

Thanks Turbo.

I'll definitely watch those videos.

Greg.

[Phil Hart]

Nice one Greg. Should keep you busy!

I have the QHY367C (or I will have when it arrives back from repair in China). Finally getting around to processing some data from the last two years with it!

cheers
Phil

[Decimus]

Looks terrific, Greg! Love the added advantage of RHA's focal length too. Great detail.

I use Sky X Pro (with the Camera Add-On download which is a separate item but ensures compatibility with many cameras including ZWO). My ASI071 works well with Sky X Pro, though, admittedly, I have only used the camera twice since I bought it last year:D

Good luck with the new camera.

Cheers,
Richard

[gregbradley]

Thanks Phil. The 367C sounds like a wonderful camera. I had the original Sony A7r which used the same sensor. It was a big step up. I look forward to seeing your images.



Thanks Richard. I did end up getting the drivers for the Sky X from the ZWO site. I didn't recognise the list of different uses was a menu. I found it under DSO. So you don't need the latest version of Sky X just that X2 driver which was hard to find on the ZWO site.

I have had a few nights with it now. I need a better adapter to prevent non squareness but I got it pretty square for now.
Focusing is harder with this camera, quite a bit harder. I am surprised. It must be the small pixels. So getting used to that.
But when the seeing settles it does shine.
Greg.

[Joshua Bunn]

You have some nice resolution there Greg.


With regard to logging into SB, you need to change your PW the first time you log in, I just used my old one, seemed to work.

[gregbradley]

Thanks Josh. Part of the problem is I am not 100% sure what my password is. So many sites want passwords these days its hard to keep them all recorded.
Its no longer an issue as I got the Sky X needed driver of the ZWO site. It was hard to find on their site. All working now. Focusing though is the main issue with this camera. Its a lot harder to focus with its small pixels. If the seeing is off then its hell. I tried for over half an hour to focus around the Tarantula Nebula which for some reason often has bad seeing for me.
Then switched to a target at the zenith and it was easy. The seeing was good there.

Greg.

[PRejto]

Greg,

Good luck learning all the ins and outs of the new camera. Seems you are off to a good start!

Re Software Bisque, The SkyX has always been on a yearly subscription basis for updates. Of course the software continues to work, you just can't update without paying the $100/year, or when you need the update. CCDAutopilot is similar.

Re logging in, just put your user name in and follow the forgotten password procedure. The new site is kind of a mess and hard to figure out. It's slowly improving but I doubt will ever be as good as the old site in terms of the wealth of information. The new site seems crude and clunky....can't upload attachments, difficult quoting system, hard to locate old threads, etc, etc. In my view the new site never should have opened without far more testing. Some of the threads about the site are vitriolic and very angry.

Peter

[turbo_pascale]

I swear by this: https://1password.com

I’m in web development. I have literally thousands of passwords I have to keep straight. This works across all my devices seamlessly. I don’t even know my actual password anymore. They are all random.

[Ryderscope]

Excellent. We can see the potential already lurking there within.

[gregbradley]

Thanks Rodney.
The camera is also very sensitive in narrowband which
Is also a big plus.
The only downside so far is its harder to focus due to the small pixels and resulting oversampling.