Filters: Astrodon, Astronomik or.....

[Andy01]

Good news! I won a full frame mono camera with an 8 pos filter wheel :D

https://qsimaging.com/2020-competition/

Bad news, now I need 2" filters and they are not cheap! :eyepop:

..and a bigger coma corrector, bigger focuser etc.

Most of my imaging is NB, done from the burbs of Melbourne, 15ks from the CBD. I currently use 3nm Astrodon filters in my QSI 683 and have been very happy with them. I can pretty much shoot regardless of the moon most clear nights.

So having just priced a new set of 2" AD filters at almost $A6k :jawdrop: I'm asking the community about the alternatives.

Has anyone done a comparison between brands, are the Astrodons really that much better than the others available now?

Thoughts welcome. :)

[codemonkey]

That's awesome Andy, congrats!

I've never used AD for NB, only for LRGB. For NB I've used Baader and Astronomik 6nm... I'm very happy with the latter, but having never used 3nm ADs my experiences are of limited value here I'm afraid.

[Slawomir]

Congratulations once again Andy. Fantastic photo and a great prize.

Maybe you could get just a 5nm Ha for a start, and one day add a 3nm OIII? Many targets look great in just mono.

I only had 12nm Astronomiks and now 3nm AD, so not a fair comparison.

[lazjen]

If you trawl through CloudyNights there's a lot of discussion on Chroma filters. They might be a (slightly) cheaper option to the Astrodons. I have no personal experience with them though.

[gregbradley]

I have used Astrodons gen 1 and 2, Baaders and Astronomiks gen 1.

With the advent of the 16803 sized sensors scopes invariably have a flattener or corrector of some sort. This placed a lot more pressure on the filters. Most were experiencing some reflections from the filter to the corrector and back down to the camera again. This started a series of new generation filters which had antireflection coatings.

So before that they all had reflection issues to some degree.

So I can't comment on the Baaders in regards to reflections as I only had Gen 1 but they did have some minor reflections mostly in the green.

Baader promoted their filters to be parfocal and balanced so they got the same exposure but they weren't in practice.

Astrodons are including the narrowband filters. I find this very useful as I focus in luminance and set an exposure rolling knowing that the focus is the same or almost exactly the same for each filter.

You can't do that with Baaders.

I had a 7nm Ha Baader filter. It was often praised on the net but my copy was defective with bad salt and pepper artefacts sprinkled through the images.

I have had a few Astrodon Ha filters and they are superb. I currently use the 5nm Ha filter and love it. Don from Astrodon recommended the 5nm Ha and use the 3nm O111 as it works better in O111. 5nm Ha allows some of the nitrogen and H Beta to come through.

Astronomiks. I got a set of LRGB. They are very thin at around 1mm whereas the Baaders and Astrodons are about 3mm.

When I got them they were the 50mm square versions and my filter wheel was set to accept 3mm filters. They were not supplied with a spacer and Astronomik brought out spacers and made you pay for them. I found that very annoying as I ended up mounting my Astronomiks and used tape to hold them in and one got loose and got damaged as it tilted. So personally I have not used Astronomik since due to the poor marketing and irresponsibility towards their product. The filters themselves gave reasonable colours and they now have a gen 2. Mike S uses them and we all know he gets great results. They are cheaper as well. Not sure about their narrowband filters. They may not have 5nm filters.

Baaders tended to give a richer red. I prefer the colour from my Astrodons and do regard them as the best on the market. I don't know anything about Chroma except they are fairly new.

Yes Astrodon's are expensive but they are the best. You sure they are $6K?


Greg.

[Atmos]

Just as an aside to that, Chroma has been around for a long long time (two decades from memory) and I’ve read a number comments that a number of years ago Chroma made the filters for Astrodon to their specifications, that may have been until about 5 years ago. I haven’t found it written officially but it’s been mentioned by a few on CN.

Chroma is only recently producing for themselves for astrophotographers. I believe this is why they seem to be new to the market but they’ve been in the industry for a few decades I believe.

[lazjen]

A quick scan of the website for 50mm round filters, for a full set (NB @ 3nm), given USD conversion, shipping + GST - $AUD 6K sounds about right.

A set of Chroma filters may not be that much cheaper overall, btw. Maybe $500 AUD less?

[JA]

Here you go Andy - $US 900 on Cloudy Nights for Baader f/2 50mm unmounted NB set .....
https://www.cloudynights.com/classifieds/item/197823-baader-f2-highspeed-narrowband-50mm-filters-900/

50% Bandwidth ????
BAADER do not state the filter bandwidth (that I can find), but I suspect that it is not as narrow as the narrowest of conventional filters to try to cope with the higher angle of incidence in to the filter necessitated by faster optics

EDIT: Maybe FORGET that suggestion depending on what optic you end up using since, to quote BAADER...
"Our new f/2 Highspeed filters are entirely designed and exclusively manufactured to work for a focal ratio range of f/3.5 to f/1.8. They are NOT designed to work above that, say from at f/4 to f/10 and this may become very apparent to see in the imaging results, if someone would try this out – for these focal ratios, "classic" filters work better."


Best
JA

[Peter Ward]

Current international list pricing from OSI for AstroDons....

49.7mm Gen 2 E series LRGB $US1485

49.7mm H-alpha, SII, OIII 5nm $US1088 each Total $US 4749.00

With the $A at around 66 cents that's $AUD 8000 inc GST :jawdrop:

[gregbradley]

Wow, they put their prices up a bit as well. 5nm narrowband used to be $895 or similar.

I have 2 sets. I shall treat them like royalty.

Greg.

[gregbradley]

Ah, makes sense. Astrodon did not make the filters themselves as I imagine that would require an expensive factory.

In which case if they are the same then it just comes down to cost.

Greg.

[lazjen]

I assume that price includes the shipping? I was guesstimating that part (badly, it seems). That's seriously insane.

[Andy01]

Would you consider parting with one for the right price? :question:
Pretty please with sugar on top? :D

Andy

[Xeteth]

I just bought myself a QHY16200a second hand loaded with Optolong 2" filters. The filters are 7nm Ha, 6.5nm S2 and O3 which isn't top of the line, but fit within my budget. I haven't had a chance to give it a go yet - waiting for an adapter to arrive (hopefully tomorrow) and some clear sky - but I'm happy to post some subs when I do get the chance to give you an idea of results.

Edit - I'm also closely following your other thread about a new scope, I'm highly doubting my ED102 will be able to illuminate an APS-H sensor, but we'll see.

Edit 2 - it's worth checking out Astromart, some sets on there going at reasonable price. https://astromart.com/classifieds/astromart-classifieds/filters/show/nb-filters

[Peter Ward]

Yes. Including shipping.

I have a set of 50mm square AstroDon LRGB Gen2's , Ha 5nm, SII 3nm and OIII 3nm...stupid money now (north of $10 k)

I might have to call in a security team and don a Hazmat suit next time they need a clean. :lol:

[Andy01]

Thanks for all the replies gents- much as Love my 3nm Astrodon’s for suburban NB imaging, $10k is waaaaay out of my budget which is half that at max and that’s really pushing it! :help:

It’s a joy to win the camera but it’s looking like I’m going to have to review or part with both of my OTA’s (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=181021)as well to get the most out of it! :lol:

So unless there’s a nice 2nd hand set of 2” Astrodons going somewhere, I’m going to have to consider these alternatives, ie: Astronomic, Baader etc.

I’m going to Neaic/Neaf next month- maybe I’ll find something there :question:

[PRejto]

I think you need to consider matching the filter set to the OTA you intend to use. For example, some APO refractors can benefit from the Astronomik Deep Sky RGB filters that block more blue than the Type II filters. And, that same blue consideration can influence what filter you use for luminance. If the pass frequency range is too wide the stars may not be as tight. If your consideration is only NB imaging maybe this doesn't matter.

I did view a very nifty filter wheel made by Optec that will hold 2" filters. It is compact and will allow carousels to be swapped out without removing the wheel. I now greatly regret buying a huge SX wheel that interferes with tracking past the zenith....

Peter

[Paul Haese]

I have bought both Astrodons and Astronomiks in the past. I currently own one set of 1.25" Dons Gen2 with NB (5nm Ha and SII, 3nm OIII), one set of 1.25" Astronomiks (LRGBHaOIIISII) (recent), on set of 2" Dons Gen2 with NB (5nm Ha and SII, 3nm OIII) and I also have an LRGB set of 2" Gen1 Dons. They are all good filters. The recent Astronomiks are much better than the past versions and probably close to the 5nm Don Gen2 Ha filters I own in performance. Recently I chose the Astronomiks simply because they were the most affordable solution to the problem. The 2" Dons I bought cost 7K last time and I would not even contemplate buying them at the current price. So I reckon go with the filters that produce good results at the best price. You would need to consider the impact of moon light and light pollution into your choice as this will be significant in the duration you can image from the metropolitan area.

[JA]

Andy if it were me, rather than wait for the perfect solution, I would make an offer on the set of 3 filters that David (username Xeteth above) linked to on Astromart. They are 6nm filters and should serve you until you can strike it lucky with a narrower set and then you could on-sell them when your better equipped with 3,4,5 nm??? bandwidth filters.

Best
JA

[DJT]

Hi AndyGet Astrodon LRGB and an Ha filter for the coming season then when the Oiii and Sii targets come up later in the year, pick up the rest then when you have wheedled more funds from the CFO...


The reasoning here is that when june/July comes around, most of the widefield targets will be heavy on the Ha around Sagittarius but the good NB targets in SMC and LMC and around that general area won’t come round till the last quarter of the year (when you are bound to be in smoke)


I can’t image you doing PNs with an FOV of that size..


I image within 10k of Sydney and for the sort of targets you will end up on with the CCD you can still do RGB and blend In the Ha for the time being.


Shocked at Astrodons price hike from farpoint.. I bought a 2” set in 2013 for $675 and they are what, close to $1400??? US.


I now have 2 CCDs that work best on 2” filter sets but I have NB in Sydney on a 10” RC and LRGB at the dark site on an FSQ106n. Can’t afford another LRGB set just yet at least not until I get more solar credits back..


PS, order from OTP not Farpoint..they have a nasty habit of taking your money then telling you the stock is on back order...opt will have let you know before you commit the money..


Tsk..1st world problems but what a great win on the CCD!!

[multiweb]

You just need to get rid of that camera and list it in the classified. It's already more trouble than it's worth. :P

[Andy01]

Lol :lol: - well it's certainly given me plenty to think about! :question:
New filters - new camera, probably new OTA, probably sell existing OTA's, :screwy: it'll all be good in the end! :D

[Andy01]

That's worth thinking about - good advice! :thanx:



I think you're right, 7K? Friar Truck!!! :eyepop:



MAybe - certainly worth a look thanks! :thumbsup:


Cheers DJT, that's a possibility for sure! :thumbsup:

[gregbradley]

I think Astronomiks are probably the current best bang for buck. Mike uses them and his images are superb.

The Astronomiks I had did good colour but needed that stupid plastic spacer to fit (cost over $100 for that - still annoyed!).

They have also improved their filters over the years and also have a nice range of clip in DSLR filters.

I don't like the Baaders much. Not parfocal and not 1:1:1 exposure values.
Also the colours were different. A bit more reddish overall. Reflections may still be an issue. I notice QHY600 images on Astrobin using Baaders had nasty reflections. But to be fair they didn't say how old the Baaders were. Gen 2 have antireflection coatings.

Make sure whatever you get that they have good antireflection coatings or you'll get nasty reflection halos on bright stars.

Greg.

[Andy01]

Thanks greg. I think you're right.:thumbsup:

Mike's images are indeed superb, however his Obsy is in a dark site and most of my imaging is done under severe LP rom the 'burbs. :shrug:

The Astronomiks NB (https://www.bintel.com.au/product/atik-narrowband-set-2/?v=6cc98ba2045f) set is reasonably priced but only 7nm - as opposed to my current 3nm Astrodons, with which I can image on any clear night regardless of the moon.

The Astronomik LRGB (https://www.bintel.com.au/product/atik-lrgb-2-set/?v=6cc98ba2045f) set is also very well priced and available locally.

However money talks and $2k vs, 7k is a compelling argument, with enough change from the sale of my existing camera & filters to purchase a complete set of Astronomiks and fund the focusser/paracoor/tube upgrades to my Newt. :D
Hmmm.... :question:

[Peter Ward]

Even though I can get AstroDons at dealer cost, with the current dismal exchange rate, they are still eye-wateringly expensive...so I thought better of it when choosing the filters for my STXL16200.....I ended up ordering a set of Baaders. I guess we'll see the results in due course, but given most of my deep sky work up until now has been taken with a 65mm/7nm Baader set...I expect the 50mm set will work equally well.

[Andy01]

Just googling and found another premium player in the filter market.
Chroma. (https://optcorp.com/collections/chroma#/sort:ss_price:desc)

Appears to be 20-30% cheaper than the Dons with some good reports...
Still almost A$5k though! :eyepop:

Astronomik is looking pretty good right now :lol:

[lazjen]

See post #4, Andy. :)

[Andy01]

D'oh - yes - sorry I've been doing so much googling I forgot that I had already seen that, thanks! :P

[strongmanmike]

Yep go with them.. and tell Gerd I sent ya :thumbsup: ;)

Mike

[codemonkey]

Personally I've been happy enough with 6nm Astronomiks that I bought them twice. Still, as I said earlier I've never used 3nm Astrodons so maybe I just don't know what I'm missing.

[Joshua Bunn]

https://astromart.com/classifieds/astromart-classifieds/filters/show/baader-filter-set-lrgbc-narrowband-h-alphao-iiis-ii-50x50-mm-unmounted


Here's a set for sale on astromart

[gregbradley]

Filters in Europe and he is in the USA. Hmmmm. I would never buy again off someone who does not have physical possession of the goods. I bought an SBIG camera like that once off Astromart and it never arrived. I got the seller to eventually pay me back. Only took 2 or 3 years!

By the way his location is listed as a Czech town yet says its in the USA and its not. Unless he meant both Czech and USA and splits is time. Only 6 ratings.

Risky seller.

Greg.

[gregbradley]

I bet you anything these are Astrodons anyway and the 20-30% was what he was charging extra.
He probably sold the business when he saw that Chroma intended to sell direct.

Greg.

[Andy01]

Well thanks everyone for your generous and informative input. :thanx:

After much thought, I've struck a deal with Tolga (https://www.tolgaastro.com/) in the USA on a complete new set of 2" Chromas.
LRGB & HA, S2 (5nm) & O3 (3nm)

I'll pick them up when I'm at NEAIC in NYC next month.:D