the astro economic forecast?

[h0ughy]

Well this should be good. It struck me as to how much money have been injected into the local economy and the OS ones as well for astronomical equipment sold and bought by Aussie and NZ astronomers. I was talking to a Mr Rocketboy just the other day when it dawned on me just how much I have spent this year. I nearly died :scared: when I roughly added it up, lets just say its well over the $10K mark and have nothing to show for it yet except rhetoric and dust sitting on some components. I never really gave much thought as to the flow on effect through the purchase of the gear…….. well what I am really bantering around is do you think the Astro community is growing and getting stronger through the transfer of goods and equipment?

OK I will try not thinking in the future:whistle:

[Rodstar]

I was contempleting the other day, HOughy, just how much is bought and sold through IIS. It must run into the hundreds of thousands by now. That is quite astonishing, when you think about. I think it would be more that fair if Mike and Terry charged a small transaction fee on the site...maybe 2%, or something. That would be a good way to refund them for the enormous time, expertise, talent and $ that they put into the site.

As for the health of astro retailers, the rise of seconds sales through IIS and similar forums might not be so harmful for retailers as one might first think. For every second hand purchase, sure, there is one less new purchase, but, at the other end of the equation, often the sale is prompted by the vendor wanting some ready cash to purchase a new item from a retailer. The net effect is that there is a constant on-flow of seconds, freeing up the big spenders in the astro-community to keep buying the latest model.

With the ready-availability of credit in our mass-mediated consumer society, there is more disposable cash floating around than ever to spend on kids, dogs and telescopic gadgetry. I can only see that phenomenon gaining momentum. At the same time, the maturing seconds market, and the ready availability of offshore suppliers through the medium of the internet has created a pressure on retailers in Australia to keep their prices down.

Bintel have these things sussed, from what I can gather. They are differentiating themselves from their competitors by their post-sale support, they vie with other sources by an excellent website listing and pricing a comprehensive range of products, and they are very cost-sensitive, such as in the recent reduction in Televue EPs, so as to compete against the large offshore dealers like Opt Corp.

And the rise of the Big Dobs.....now that is a phenomenon which is sure to bring a steady flow of $$$ to those involved in that industry. Imagine how many 16" Lightbridges Bintel stand to sell in the next 2 years?!

[h0ughy]

yeah I know I did have one on order, but had to defer i bought my 2nd hand losmandy G11.

[rogerg]

We live in a world of plenty.

No matter how much or little we've all spent I think the general rule is that we (western world) are spending more and more on "fun" - non-essential items. This surely would be leading to an increase in the size of the astronomy market nationally and internationally to some extent.

Also, the simple comparison of how many people buy telescopes vs build them from scraps, now vs 50 years ago, makes it plain to see how much extra money people have now, and how much extra demand there would be now for components.

I haven't had too much to spend on gear recently myself :( but it goes up and down like that. Even then though, I'm more time poor than money poor - finding the time to use the equipment is hard.

My 2c worth.

[avandonk]

hOughy if it makes you feel better, when the 300mm F2.8L and camera etc is sitting outside, there is in excess of $20K Aus sitting in the dark.
I used to be in charge of $3M of equipment in my previous life so all is relative.
The trick is to use it to the best of your abilities.

Bert

[h0ughy]

LOL , I did a quick calc on the equipment possibly on the field at Qld astrofest last year and that was pushing the $0.5 million mark on the park getting dewed:whistle: (ok might have over compensated but not by much, only hope I didnt under estimate;) )

[ballaratdragons]

Back in my old life, I used to go to a lot of outlaw Motorcycle Club weekends :D

Often the organisers of each event would go round and do a count of the amount of bikes (mostly customised Harleys) and rough dollar estimate of each bike. At one event I was at in St.Arnaud they announced that there was in excess of 8 million dollars worth of bikes parked around the campsite!!!!! :eyepop:

Glad a bushfire didn't go through. :lol:

You'd be suprised if you did a proper count at an large Astro event. It may be more than your guessing! :thumbsup:

[avandonk]

In winter I have a cunning plan! Everything has ice on it when it gets really cold but the optics are clear!

Bert

[RB]

......that Rocket Boy is a bad influence ???? :whistle:

Houghy's next lens. (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0703/07030805sigma200500mm.asp)

[RB]

It's best not to consider how much money is tied up in this obsession we call a hobby........:doh: :screwy:

[avandonk]

That lens will be fine for nature shots but will fail dismally for stars!

Bert

[RB]

Thanks Bert, I knew I should've stuck with the Canon 300mm f/2.8

:thumbsup:

[fringe_dweller]

not just astro-suppliers, but the camera shops/sites of all kinds (i know some cross over of course) - how much business did recent comet produce one wonders?
anyway i see a f1.2 50mm (or a f1.4 35mm) and a 400D in my future ;) , after experiencing what a wide open f1.4 50mm on a tripod can do from a dark sky site, it will probably occasionally partially eliminate the need for tracked images of my favourite widefield subjects (when my longtime co-imaging partner with the eq is unavailable to go out on field trips from the city - which is unfortunately a lot now, due to various commitments), when taken from a very dark sky sites, and stacked multiple's possibly. i'm in heavan :love: ! also doubling as wicked planet/moon conjunction lens, and probably even for aurora - what an amazing era!

[wavelandscott]

Oh joy...a variation on "the expenditure on leisure" topic...a very interesting economics discussion. :thumbsup:

Having done a few degrees in economics at university I do find this an interesting discussion topic.

For a variety of reasons the amount of money spent on "leisure" or "hobby" activities continues to grow... and is much bigger in total dollar terms than you might guess.

There are several reasons...relatively high rates of pay and low costs of "necessities" (food, clothing fuel relative to income) combined with relatively easy and available credit and a desire and increase in the "have it and enjoy it now" attitudes come together to make some lucarative business segments...in wine, restaurants, cosmetic surgery and hobbies like astronomy.

Generally the second hand market is an "entry" point for newcomers to the leisure activity until you get hooked and feel the need to buy new...it is just a part of establishing the consumption treadmill! Viva la capitalism!

I am confident that we would all be shocked, scared and maybe embarrassed if we actually calculated what we spend (dollars, time and mental energy) on this hobby (or any other leisure activity)...but, I guess it is okay since we aren't so busy "hunting and gathering food and shelter"...

I hope you all get much "utility" (the util is a "measure" of for lack of a better word happiness from consumption) for the gear you have...and the gear that you are going to buy...and you will buy more ;)

[h0ughy]

LOL Scott I tried to be intellectual. failed eh....

RB your a tease

[Miaplacidus]

I don't know why, but I am prompted to remind you all of Say's Law:

"It is worthwhile to remark that a product is no sooner created than it, from that instant, affords a market for other products to the full extent of its own value. When the producer has put the finishing hand to his product, he is most anxious to sell it immediately, lest its value should diminish in his hands. Nor is he less anxious to dispose of the money he may get for it; for the value of money is also perishable. But the only way of getting rid of money is in the purchase of some product or other. Thus the mere circumstance of creation of one product immediately opens a vent for other products."

[okiscopey]

It seems from the replies - and common observation - that there's far more "transfer of goods and equipment" in amateur astronomy now than there was decades ago. All to the good, methinks, for the suppliers, customers and our field of interest. It's all so much easier and the technology is cheaper and better than ever before.

HOWEVER (there's always a 'however') there's a parallel question. What percentage of this gear is seriously used?

It's interesting that when second-hand items are advertised for sale, they're very often described as "hardly used" and "bought a couple of months ago".

I 'm sure this wasn't so prevalent in the past. Now we have more disposable income and the power of modern advertising and the Internet. Also, I reckon there's a generally higher 'turnover of interests' and 'shorter attention span' nowadays if you know what I mean.

Of course, nobody here falls into this category ... :whistle:

[avandonk]

Bert's law
If it works very well, use to the best of your abilities and use it often!

Bert

[wavelandscott]

Bert is right!

[h0ughy]

Thats right. thats why I plonk my huge assets on your chair so as to save my back while I look through the camera lens or the eyepiece;) ONe must be comfortable when looking through new stuff................ One item I will never tire of or wish to trade or sell at any price:thumbsup:

[ballaratdragons]

So true Bert!

I flogged the poor little EQ1 to death using the ED80 on it (my boys are going to save it and make it theirs), my Mega-huge EQ Mount from Bert doesn't just get used in the back yard, it gets lugged to Camp and even to the local fair for demos (damn thing weighs half a ton), my 12" is being dobbed regularly (when it isn't in the Mega mount), and I flog the guts out of the Toucam :lol:
And now I am making good regular use of the EQ6 & Synscan too.

I think my gear is "used to the best of my abilities and use it often" :rofl: