AllSky Camera AS224MC

[Paul Haese]

Hi all,


I have for years resisted the urge to have an all sky camera, simply because the ones available were too expensive to justify buying one.



In the last couple of weeks I have been going through the process of making an allsky camera.



I bought a Raspberry Pi 4 and a ZWO ASI224MC. A day ago a friend of mine helped me with installing the code on to the Mini SD. The code and how to do an Allsky camera can be found here.
(https://github.com/thomasjacquin/allsky)


The hardware you will need can be found here. (https://www.instructables.com/id/Wireless-All-Sky-Camera/)


Tonight I had first light of the camera. I have included a couple of images of both the finished camera and of the first light image.


All up it cost a bit over $500 but that is way less than a commercially made one.

[Joshua Bunn]

It's a great alternative to the commercially available alternatives, at a fraction of the cost, and it works so well. 👍

[RobF]

Nice going Paul.
I like the way its self-contained, but what will you use to power it?

[Paul Haese]

Well most are several thousand or more dollars commercially and they do the same job, though maybe a little neater looking. This thing produces time lapses, Keograms and star trails. Everything I need really and more.






Power it has been a pain, at present I am only usine a USB cable to power it but have something coming which has a longer cable and will still use USB. I'll have to do something about protecting the power adapter here at home but at the observatory 1.5m will be fine to go inside the obs.

[LostInSp_ce]

Looks the goods I might have to pinch this idea for future reference. :)
Considering everything else ZWO does regarding cameras I'm surprised that they haven't commercially made one of these yet.

[graham.hobart]

I have collected the bits to do this as well with a mono ZWO camera, my problem is powering the raspberry pi in the garden. I wondered whether using a power over ethernet POE hat for the pi would then provide enough power for both the pi and the camera?
I haven't tried it yet as I have only just got my boards.
Would be simple if so, a long ethernet cable would do the job(s)!!

[RobF]

I was wondering about a small rechargeable battery and solar panel, but then its more complexity and panel might obscure sky.

[bojan]

Have you considered this:
https://globalmeteornetwork.org/wordpress/

[Paul Haese]

I don't know the answer to that question Graham. Perhaps someone here will know the answer. I have used a USB cable with power adapter water proofed temporarily for testing, but you can buy quite long powered USB's that should work too. Digging a trench is also an option. However, at the Observatory I'll be running a long protected USB to the power adapter inside.






I saw something like this on a couple of sites. I think it was one of the commercial cameras that had it. I cannot remember where I saw it now.





No I had not considered that. Are you suggesting I buy one of their cameras?

[Paul Haese]

BTW here is a time lapse from the other night.



Click here (https://vimeo.com/375379091) for video


An attached is a star trails image.

[bojan]

Of course not..
But their software works on Raspberry, it is free, and you can join their network. I think by doing that you may increase the capability of your hardware....
See here:
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=177497&highlight=Global+meteor+network

[Paul Haese]

Ah, sorry, I thought initially you meant I should join the group, which I think is an interesting idea, but once I saw they sold equipment I then thought that you meant I should buy something from them. Sorry for the confusion and the question.

[bojan]

When I saw that website first time, my initial reaction to their "business" was also negative.. it seems they need to work on their public image a bit more.

Basically, they are selling equipment in a kit (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MTL85YMYH33u8OZ9Tl0JjSZXcLn8mOmNrC OC0I28Drw/edit#heading=h.zg3284ohfgfe) for people who want the whole solution in a single package.. but by no means this is the only way to go.

Burried in the website are links to detailed technical information (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XBSdrkwrOGPONIn5PBJ7YzH2vr7pUIxW3l 8S62BQXEQ/edit#heading=h.sljmol4e9uz).Their software supports cameras with LAN interface (I went for this one (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32908656021.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311. 0.0.2b8e4c4d9AkEyC)), it was only AU$56 complete with optics), but it may also support ZWO (you can ask them).
For example, I will use laptop running Linux, because I have it - so it doesn't make sense (in my case) to buy Raspberry.

[turbo_pascale]

I think I'd like to take this approach, as my house & observatory are wired with a POE switch. Have you tested to see of the POE Hat can power the camera and the Pi? Running some ethernet out to an enclosure with everything in it seems like a good option.




I ran my ASI290MM in a CCTV camera enclosure which I found in the junk pile at work, but that required running a USB extension out. Admittedly, I put it out there in summer, so wasn't too risky, but I'd be interested to hear how you waterproofed your USB cable (especially since I'm going to have to run the cable at least 10 metres to get clear of the dome and mount it somewhere nicely out of the way.

I have the video of that attempt https://youtu.be/Le-MwpNq2Wc?t=10.

And the same from inside the dome https://youtu.be/Le-MwpNq2Wc?t=196

You can ignore the rest of the video if you aren't interested in the ASI1600MM.


Also, where did you get the dome cover? The link that is provided on the instructables page has no stock.

[Troy]

It's a good idea Paul. I would like to do this myself in the future also and the video looks good.

[Paul Haese]

Hi Rob,

in the end I chose a water proof case available from Jaycar. It comes with a seal which slips between the top and bottom. To seal the dome I used aquarium grade silicone.

I used an Ethernet cable and powered it via a adapter from Raspberry Pi.

The dome cover came from Ebay via a friend who was building one too. Apparently only about 7 dollars or something like that.

See photos below for updated camera and in use.

[turbo_pascale]

That's a nice implementation.

So looks like the PoE Hat does the job of running both the RPi and the camera.

A couple of questions:

Do you use it in the day time, and can the auto-exposure get it to the point where it's not totally blown out during the day?

Given the box is totally sealed, is there enough airflow to keep the RPi cool enough? I'd worry about the box getting pretty hot outside (especially during the day), without any way to get any cooler air in there.

I'm contemplating using the cheaper ZWO ASI120MC-S USB3.0 Colour cam ($279 right now from Bintel), but it's lower res (1280x960). In real-life, do you think the lower res (vs for example a 1936×1096 ASI290MC at double the price) is any kind of impediment? I suspect not, but sometimes the on-paper vs real-life experience is somewhat different.

[Paul Haese]

Rob,

the auto exposure handles day time imaging well too. It goes down to fractions of a second to achieve the correct exposure day or night. I did find however, that night time needed to have the gain raised to 300, to obtain the correct exposure for my dark sky site.

The RPi is cooled by a cooling unit which is from RPi too. Temperatures typically look to be around 50C at most during the very hot days. The sensor on the camera gets quite hot but has so far performed well.

The 120 will not work correctly with a Pi4 I believe, but is ok with a Pi3 from what I have been told. The resolution is not really a problem if you just want something to see what the clouds are like. If you want more detail you will need a more advanced camera.

[Paul Haese]

I had not realised that I had not posted a video taken from my observatory south of Adelaide.


Click here (https://vimeo.com/394109690) for video. You might want to look out for the Starlink satellites just before dawn.

[turbo_pascale]

That's good to know - if you've managed to get any daytime images with it, I'd love to see how it goes.


That's pretty hot. The fan can only circulate the air that it has, so although that's better than no fan, if I do it, I might try to put some filtered holes underneath with very fine mesh, just to give it a chance to get some cooler air.


I think the issue was with the older USB 2 model, not the newer USB 3 one, but I will stand corrected. I have both kinds of PI here. I suspect the older one would do just fine anyway, it's not that "busy".

[turbo_pascale]

Yikes! They're bright.

[va1erian]

Bintel has increased the price for 120MC-S to an eye-popping $299. The mono version was priced the same. I thought it probably had to do with the fact that (i) it is the most popular camera in spite the sensitivity being half of the another popular camera 224MC; and (ii) the availabilty decreased due to coronavirus in China.

A couple of days ago, the price for 120MC-S dropped back to $279, and the price of 120MM-S increased to $319. Come to think of it, in December last year, on 10% off sale, one could buy a 224MC for $370 !

[turbo_pascale]

Has anyone tried the NoIR camera for the RaspPi?

https://core-electronics.com.au/raspberry-pi-noir-camera-board-v2-8-megapixels-38553.html

Thinking of trying it to see what kind of long exposures it could do. Might be a cheap way out for an allsky cam at night.

Can't get my head around the $300 for the ZWO camera for a "nice to have".

[vk5cp]

There is a POE board avail for the Pi.

[turbo_pascale]

I've just purchased a ZWO ASI120MC-S second hand for use in an all-sky camera.

Of course, because I finally pulled the trigger on this, I just found that the Raspberry Pi has just released a new high quality camera module, but this is quite a bit more exciting than it first seems.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-high-quality-camera/

Sensor is: Sony IMX477R stacked, back-illuminated sensor, 12.3 megapixels, 7.9 mm sensor diagonal, 1.55 μm × 1.55 μm pixel size
with a C/CS Mount for lenses.

About $100 (with the flex cable) in Aus: https://core-electronics.com.au/raspberry-pi-hq-camera.html

The info I found most interesting was that you can capture up to 200s shutter speed. The previous cameras could only do 6s.


https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/raspbian/applications/camera.md

This opens up a lot of possibilities, both for AllSkyCam use, or as a (non-cooled) astro cam. Could be fun!

[vk5cp]

Thanks for the heads up@!

I was about to order a ASI178 but will give this a go first.

I already have the 1.55mm lens which should fit the Pi Camera. For some reason the lens is recommended for cameras up to 5MP - not sure why. I have also ordered a POE hat (with CPU cooling fan included) - Hopefully the POE hat will make power cabling a lot easier.

Will let you know how I go.

Chris

[turbo_pascale]

I did the same. Could work well as an all in one solution, and I have PoE as well so 1 cable could work out nice.

[turbo_pascale]

Paul,

I've set this up with an ASI120MC-S in a security camera dome (awaiting delivery of a better acrylic dome), but the last 2 nights, it has been covered in dew. It's doing a little better tonight, but the night is young.

http://allskycam.sqlsolutions.com.au/

The RPi4 that I'm using is currently inside the dome, and I'm running a USB cable only out to the camera.

I know the RPi could potentially be mounted in with the camera in a box, which would supply some heat. In your configuration, does that provide sufficient heat to ward off the dew, or do you attempt to do it by other means?

For what it's worth, I've put the PoE HAT to power the RPi, which is a good 1-cable way of powering the unit, proving ethernet in plenty of juice for the camera. A bit of heat pops out of it too!

[turbo_pascale]

I spent a lot of time hacking with the code to get it running with the ASI120MC-S and publishing it to my website.

However, on the GitHub repo, there is a pull request for someone who implemented a solution with the RPI camera (the older ones).
The API for the cameras are the same, just different parameter selections, so in theory, could be quite easily modified to get working.
https://github.com/thomasjacquin/allsky/pull/36
Once I've bedded in my current solution, I'll try and see if I can run up an alternate version with the RPi HQ camera.

ps. where did you source the 1.55mm lens? I've ordered one off Anazon, but it was kind of expensive....

[Paul Haese]

I get a fair bit of dew too but Clayton is like that. It appears to be the dew capital of SA, gallons of the stuff. Having said that, I could drill holes in the cover just under the dome to allow the heat to come into the dome. Even the minor slot width around the camera does allow some of the heat to rise. There is a dew heater you can buy from the AllSky camera people too. That might be better.



I got that from B&H. The price was ok but it took sometime to get it to Australia and that was pre covid-19. So you might be in for a wait.

[lazjen]

Do you have concerns about heat during summer days?

[Paul Haese]

I had it going through summer and whilst it got hot and I did use the cooling unit for the Pi4, it did not seem to affect the camera itself. It did get hot up around 76 degrees but no failures occurred. Time will tell whether an automated cover needs to be installed over the camera during the day time. I suspect this won't be too much of an issue for years to come though.

[turbo_pascale]

Sounds like I just have to wait for all the bits to arrive and jig it up a bit better. Was hoping to jerry-rig something (which I kind of have) as a proof of concept, but I think it's just going to need a more robust setup.

[turbo_pascale]

I've made 2 YouTube videos of my build.

The first one is a bit of a "what I'm going to build" intro.
The second one is the build itself.


Part 1 - https://youtu.be/k04bmhgoLZo
Part 2 - https://youtu.be/5AN8TCCmdDs

AllSkyCamera Software
https://github.com/thomasjacquin/allsky

Web based Instructions & Parts list
https://www.instructables.com/id/Wireless-All-Sky-Camera/

STL File for Bracket
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4377413

My Personal Camera & Weather Station
http://allskycam.turbotalkstech.com/
http://weather.turbotalkstech.com/

[bojan]

Very good effort, Rob.
I am looking forward to see more of your progress.
BTW, this youtube presentation on meteor hunting could be interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM7lfQ4nmyw&feature=youtu.be
My camera and everything else is still in the drawer, waiting for me to have more time to finish this...

[turbo_pascale]

That's pretty cool, but the current setup is not anywhere near ready for that level of work!

I'm waiting for a wider lens (1.55mm) to arrive, as well as a replacement dome (the one I have is super scratched up).

[turbo_pascale]

The first "official" night out in the properly mounted box was a bit of a surprise, and tested the box integrity.

I had not yet put silicon sealant around the dome, just some electrical tape as a placeholder - I didn't check the weather forecast!!! some water got in, but luckily nothing was affected - the electronics managed to stay dry.
Suffice it to say, there is a lot of silicon around it now, even though I will 100% be dismantling it in the next few weeks for a rebuild.

Major thunderstorm came over with some pretty impressive lightning around 1am and 3am.

https://youtu.be/qoQUJrK51MY
It's only a 1:30 video, but the interesting bit starts around the 35 second mark.

[turbo_pascale]

I've been tweaking my setup for my cam, and decided to try to run the new Raspberry Pi HQ Camera instead.

I've been having some problems after updating my Raspberry Pi when using the ASI120MC-S (indeed weird problems with my ASI290MM). Weird problems with the images during daytime. I'm going to be rebuilding the operating system from scratch to see if that fixes it.

Here's a video from last night which came out pretty good (ignore the first bit while I was desk-testing it!!).
https://allskycam2.turbotalkstech.com/videos/allsky-20200725.mp4

The attached image is scaled for upload here, but they are 12megapixel images (about 7Mb) as JPGs out of the camera. This was a 30 second exposure.
If you want to take a look at it live, use this URL and hope that it's not cloudy
https://allskycam2.turbotalkstech.com

I'm still fiddling with it all the time to see if I can tweak it some more. It's not a super sensitive camera, but at AUD$100 is a heap cheaper than even the crappiest ZWO camera.

[vk5cp]

Looks good, nice pic of Jupiter and Saturn going across. Pity about the cloud. How did you get the data to be on screen - my Robbo version does not do that? I will upload one of my videos from Younghusband in SA (near dark sky reserve)

I am getting a AS178MC going to compare, bit the enclosure is not so simple due to the USB3 connectors (100mm pipe fitting not big enough.

Chris

[turbo_pascale]

I've been having a fair bit of comms with the author over the last few weeks, and I've been doing a fair bit of testing.
He added the text back in about a week or so ago (which still kind of sucks because it leave that graph/axis across the top, but we can't control that - it's built in to the RASPISTILL command when you display the stats).

He added the dark subtraction back in yesterday. I haven't downloaded that one yet.

He has added some code to auto-download the git repo on restart of the service. I don't like that, so I change his code when I update to avoid that.

https://github.com/RobboRob/allsky


I'm having a fair bit of trouble with my two ASI Cameras (ASI120MC-S and as a test, my ASI290MM). Both have problems during the day, but seem to be OK at night. Not sure if I just need to start from scratch with the operating system, as it was working OK until I upgraded the OS.

I currently have the ASI290MM installed on this link: https://allskycam.turbotalkstech.com/
It's so much more sensitive than the 120, but it should be for the price!

Not exciting right now because of the clouds. If you look back through the timelapses though, there's a lot of video of the ASI290MC-S

[Paul Haese]

Update


It's been well over six months since manufacturing and installing the AllSky camera and I found out that there were several problems which needed fixing.

The first up was that the dome on the camera would dew up easily at Clayton. The humidity there is always quite high and dew is an ever present problem. To get around this a friend bought a couple of dew heaters that are suitable for ZWO cameras and all sky camera domes. I bought some new boxes to house the systems and did the soldering, installation of the dew heaters, glands and cut the holes to both boxes. The soldering required the use of quite thin cable to connect to the dew heater and it had to pass through the holes underneath without causing a short. I used RCA cable for this purpose and it has been successful. A couple of photos demonstrate how I treated the cable with shrink wrap and then the soldering. The heater was glued onto the box with epoxy and then the dome was later glued on top of the box (not shown in the pics).

Next I was concerned about having the power adapter out in the open air so I bought a PoE hub and PoE splitter. This means that the ethernet cable runs straight into the box and carries the power needed for the Pi and camera. The dew heater is powered by another cable which connects to the IP switch so I can turn off the heater during the day. The PoE splitter had a micro USB on it and I needed to buy an adapter that would go from that to a USB C because the Pi4 has that connection now. I did trial using a PoE HAT which fit onto the Pi4 but it meant I did not have the cooling module on the Pi and with the temps in summer it means the computer would need to be off during the day. So the splitter worked well.

I have attached images taken last night with the Allsky and with 98% humidity and not dew. Quite happy with the results.