Saturn's rings - for the magnification-challenged!

[erick]

I've had an ongoing challenge to obtain the best view I could of Saturn and its rings using my 20x80 and 30x100 binoculars.

While I'll sure I can see them now, I'm looking forward to more definition and I wonder if that will come as Saturn's shadow starts to fall across the rings in the coming months. I extracted the views of Saturn shown in Astronomy Australia 2007 and put them in the attached picture, marking in the extent of the shadow (it's in a .tif file, so I had to zip to attach it).

It seems to me that April/May should have maximum shadow and that may be quite clearly seen. Anyway I'm looking forward to trying. :)

[xelasnave]

The more you observe the more you observe. Dont give up on it who knows what a perfect night will permit. But even with a long F/L is does not get that big and smaller F/L may give you an edge. I took some reasonable shots of Saturn thru a 80x 400 ar scope (probably the same as your binos) when a larger scope let it jump too much. Keep your binos well mounted eliminate all vibration and go for it.
alex

[DobDobDob]

Hi again Eric, okay I see from your drawings what you mean and I will take this into account. In an effort to determine exactly what we can see through the 20x80 triplet, I will also observer Saturn on every possible opportunity between now and then, and sketch what I see, and try to improve on my artwork and see if I can detect a real change in what I observer over time.

If as you suggest it should get better over the next couple of months, I should see a difference in my sketches, providing I maintain some consistency in how I actually do the sketching.

This will be an interesting experiment, because what I saw a week ago on a good night was nothing short of extraordinary, so I am keen to do this, if only.......it would stop raining......:whistle:

[erick]

Here is a Voyager 2 photo from 1981 of what we are looking for - that distinctive break between planet and rings on the upper right.

[DobDobDob]

Ahhhhhhhhhh a picture really does save a thousand words, now this is really getting me excited, this should certainly be visible to some degree given our equipment. I look forward to this very much indeed.

Who said you couldn't have fun doing astronomy???

[DobDobDob]

I assume you saw the moons in that image :P

[erick]

Yep, and if we had the date and time the photo was taken, I bet we could work out which ones they are too! :thumbsup:

[DobDobDob]

Just looking at that image again, it reminded me of something I recently saw on cable TV, it was the person in charge of the probe that first photographed Saturn. He said that they always knew of the bands around Jupiter which had always been visible from Earth based telescopes, but when they got back the first images of Saturn and saw that there were bands the equal of Jupiter, you could have knocked them all over, they were amazed.

The image below shows some of the bands very clearly.

[DobDobDob]

Here's a question for you Eric, as we look at the image, left to right, top to bottom, where would the Sun be to cause the shadow to appear as it is?

[erick]

Quick first comment. Sunlight is coming from generally behind and to the left of the observation point (obvious), but "lower" than the observation point if I'm rightly discerning the shadow of the rings on the planet (just a small amount of the shadow is visible - the rest is behind the rings.). Hence (also obviously) the sunlight is coming in from above the plane of the rings in this photo.

[DobDobDob]

Well based on what you say which is essentially to the left of the planet as we look at it and a little higher than say the equator, can you tell me if you noticed that there is also a shadow between the inner edge of the rings and the face of the planet, which is another reason why the Sun would not be very high but just slightly above the centre as we are looking at the image.

[DobDobDob]

Actually reading yours and my descriptions, it would appear that we agree.

[DobDobDob]

I was out with the binos on Saturday night and basically looked at the planets, firstly Saturn was pretty hard to focus 100% due to the almost full moon, however I did study it for some time and can categorically state that I saw the start of the shadow in the position top right adjacent to the body of the planet, as we have previously discussed. Now over the next month, I will be able to tell if the shadow lengthens, as expected.

Next I observed Jupiter, for quite a long time, and I 100% nailed it, the planet was crisp and sharp, I had the moon basically at my back. The four moons were in a sensational formation and so sharp, this time I swear I could see a spherical shape to the moons. I drew a sketch with some notes see below. This was sketched in real time using a red light and I could have redone the sketch later and made it better, but I prefer to retain the authentic data, as I saw it and recorded it.

I am sure that many people reading along with this thread who use binoculars, who have seen Jupiter at it's best, can understand how absolutely gobsmacked I was when the planet rose and I saw it, it was truly awe inspiring. There would be few less impressive sights than what I saw, magnificent Jupiter, flaked by moons in all it's splendour.

[erick]

Great, Ron! I haven't been out for far too long now! Hopefully this Friday evening I'll get a chance.

[DobDobDob]

I noticed you changed your image, that is a mighty fine necklace your wearing ;)

[erick]

Time my ugly grey-bearded face was on show! :lol:

Yes, I had them all out, having threatened them all with a good collimation, so thought we'd take a shot of my lovelies! :thumbsup:

[DobDobDob]

You're not actually an undercover used binocular salesman are you? :whistle: