could the universe began with complete zero?

[cohen avshalom]

could the universe began with complete zero?
My general idea is the location for creation mass/energy, is the edge of the universe,on the jacket of the universe,more I claim that if Hubble (the astronomer)didn't take the view that the universe began without mass/energy ,the reason it is because he didn't take option that mass/energy could be created. If he was taking that option he would have arrived at a first point without any energy or mass just emptiness
i was writting what i thinks in 3 pages(call icarus5-unlimited energy being created at the age of the universe-com),and i like to know your opion.
thanks from cohen avshalom charly isreal/haifa
www.icarus5.com (http://www.icarus5.com)

[xelasnave]

Greetings and welcome to Iceinspace from me. May I call you Cohen? It is very nice to have you submit a post in our forum. I am sorry I am not entirely sure what it is you ask.
Hopefullly that indicates that I want to be clear on the point you are suggesting.
If you ask could everything we see today come from "nothing" I as one human can not comprehend that anything can come from nothing although that seems to be the premise of the big bang. One reads that the theory of the big bang can take us very close to the start but not to the actual start. So not having a statement from the popular theory explaining the presence of everything this leaves the matter open to speculation. Personally one can only wonder how something can come from nothing to grow to all and more of what we can observe today.
However I must confess I have problems accepting the big bang theory because of its reliance on the inflation theory. Without inflation it is difficult to support the big bang theory. My little human mind can not accept that everything grew at the rate of trillions of time in a split second so that leaves me wondering about the validity of the big bang theory.Of course what I think has no bearing on what really may have taken place. I hasten to add that I am probably the only person on the planet who has difficulty in this regard as most appear content that inflation is reasonable and as such so is the big bang theory.
If one is to entertain the big bang theory and look at what there was at the exact moment of the begining one can see that it possibly started from nothing , however nothing is a very difficult thing to comptemplate and in fact I can not see that there can be something really described as nothing.
If truely nothing we must introduce some force we can not describe or comprehend. Some will introduce God some say a fluctuation between positve and negative..so we then have something.
However if God why should we have a start, could it not be posible that all that is always was and always will be.. and if a fluctuation between positive and negative we certainly have something but a reference to positve and negative indicates forces which is something.
Perhaps if you could state what you speculate as a possibility we can go further. Please extend your post more so we can get a better idea of what you propose.
Again welcome you have a very interesting post I would like to understand your proposition better.
alex

[cohen avshalom]

because if the creation is always been taken prosess then it is like a flower who it has growning every step-and never stopping prosses-might read what i was writting it is only 3 pages-of course i like to know then more thinks from your opion.
cohen avshalom charly isreal/haifa
www.icarus5.com (http://www.icarus5.com)

[styleman333]

huh?
im confused by what hes saying more so then the big bang theory

[xelasnave]

What I guess we are saying Cohen is we cant get a grasp on the premise of your idea. Perhaps if you take the time to put it anoter way. Dont get frustrated that we can not gain enlightenment easily as we are starting on this you no doubt have put considerable thought into your idea.. I sense you feel as though you have something that offers a different approach to what popular thought entertains. It may be your excitement of having an original idea leaves you jumping past something that you feel you understand but dont take the time to expand it sufficient for others to enjoy your thought.
I feel however by attempting to explain it at length we can get a grasp of where you are coming from. I would say perhaps your answer lays in understanding the inflation concept as that is really so important in considering matters close to the start.
But I must say what I think probably will not correspond to what you think but that does not mean I will not respect your ideas and investigate the alternatives you present. Mind youwhat I think does not correspond to what others think so you will not be alone I suspect.
Best wishes alex

[avandonk]

There is a very thin sphere around a black hole where when virtual particles appear (see Casimir Effect) one goes into the black hole the other propagates into space. As long as mass/energy is conserved all is well. The Universes accountants have a balanced book and don't get into trouble with the auditors.
Is this what you are asking?

Bert

[cohen avshalom]

everyone could think in everway that he like to ,and i am respect that,the open point of the craetion universe it is very un-knowen point,we only could guess what happend there-i am thinking in one way the other in other way,but if this wasn't a open conversation it was boaring for everyone
thank you xelasnave -and if i dont mistack-from Sri Lanka-i saw 2 income from there.
avshalom charly cohen isreal/haifa
www.icarus5.com (http://www.icarus5.com)

[allan gould]

If you go to his/her site the message is very clear
Regards, Allan

[xelasnave]

Thank you Allan I will have a look.
I just got in from Sydney Cohen I will look at your site after I have some sleep it was a long drive 760klms and I need a couple of hours rest.
I am sorry I missed your point when you said
and if I dont mistake - from Sri Lanka - I saw 2 income from there.
I dont know what you mean by that sentence could you rephrase it please.
alex

[cohen avshalom]

Isreal from one side to the other side by the longest way dont have 760 kM
second take your time-i have time,i am taiking with people from some country(about 20-30 other contry)and i am happy taking also with you.your very friendly,and your commond are very polite.
after i was rewrite you i had 2 income from sri lanka to my site,so i was assumption with a wrong way.
tanks from Cohen Avshalom charly isreal/haifa
www.icarus5.com (http://www.icarus5.com)

[xelasnave]

All I can think is there is an Doctor (I think in Sri Lanka) who has a site that he links direct to things I say in another forum. It surprised me he valued my ideas so highly as he is a very important man in his field giving lectures world wide in his area of expertise.
I think you may find your thoughts will get more respect if you call them an "idea" not a "theory" as a theory requires more than a layperson can imagine if used in the world of science.
Thank you for the compliment as I do like to be fair minded, polite and respectful of another humans beliefs:) .
I can not say I agree with what your idea suggests but that is not saying you are not onto something and would say that by following your idea you will learn more things and that is very good. I do not accept the big bang as a theory as it needs inflation for support which has yet to be proved in my view. But if we dont have a big bang it is difficult to imagine a Universe where time has no start or finish. Neither alternative is easy for a human to comprehend but alternatives should never be eliminated, so remember that because your ideas offer alternatives.
I will be driving back to Sydney in 2 weeks. Have a look at a map to get an idea how although that sounds like a long trip it is a small fraction of our East Coast and a smaller fraction of the entire coast of Australia..it is a big wonderful country, you must come over one day, and if you do contact me I will show you my part of the world:) .
My home is on 200 acres with no one for miles around and a 2 klm frontage to a lovely unpoluted river so I think you would not go home as you would fall in love with it as I have.
I feel very sad for your country that it has so much difficulty with neighbours and can not imagine how difficult that must make life for everyone:sadeyes: .
best wishes
alex

[xelasnave]

Cohen if you want to know what I really think have a look at
http://forums.astronomydaily.com/viewtopic.php?t=4364
I call myself there Professor Morosoper.
A Morosopic condition is one where everything you find supports your idea.. it is my little joke about myself. People will probably say you have the condition but in truth all humans have it, it is only the ones who can look truthfully at themselves who will accept that it is with all of us.
best wishes
alex

[cohen avshalom]

my site was planning exit to the internet at june 2006.but the war that token place in the summer cause delay till the 10 September 2006,there i was concentrating slightly of my idea to a short(only 3 pages)-idea that call icarus5-unlimited energy....-the wide open space of australia,the self confidence,is someting that you should be proud . on this summer ,only few month, jule-and August,every day for 2 month almost till 10-20 time a day,a 1-20 bomb was falling in my area(my city is urban-crowded-and with many factory-must of then are chemical factory-the area consist 500,000-600,000 people),few of the bomb was falling near me,and one of the bomb was falling 150 meter from my parent house while my son was there,but we didnt injured mostly by good luck(my city is about 30 km-from Labnon-Isreal-border).-but i was learnning appreciate the thing that we have-and what sometime are transparenting for the view.
if i didnt been in australia till now,apparently,(even i am 34 years old only)will not been there because the routine give me the opportunity only few hour
when i am haveing a free time-to be at imagination-way -somewhere else.
have a good day
from cohen avshalom isreal/hifa( north isreal)
www.icarus5.com (http://www.icarus5.com)

[xelasnave]

I hope they were not bombing you because of your idea.
I dont know how you can live in such a hostile environment I know I could not.
An of course the violence only breeds violence so the end never comes.. not good for you and the town. I have no idea on how it can be finally resolved so all I can offer is my sorrow that part of the world has such problems.
alex

[cohen avshalom]

i prefer quiet life for sure-and now it is quiet for few month,well i dont fraid from the death when he will collect me,then i probably was completting my
designation, but till then i have probably some time,well i have more soul then a cat having-the cat have only 7 soul.
i was seeing you replaying (a lot replayes) of your,and i know you are filling that this field is more then interest you.
i will reback-till then all the time step by step i am updating my site,and your remark is inportment for me
cohen avshalom charly isreal/haifa
www.icarus5.com (http://www.icarus5.com)

[cohen avshalom]

and i hope to here from you again.
the update was after i read alot of note
so i hope you will note

cohen avshalom charly
isreal/haifa
www.icarus5.com (http://www.icarus5.com)
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