China announces plan to build base at Moon's south pole within the decade

[gary]

AFP reports today that with respect China's space ambitions :-



Story here :-
https://www.france24.com/en/20190424-china-build-moon-station-about-10-years

[xelasnave]

Isnt that where all the water is☺
Alex

[xelasnave]

Now surely the US must build one at the North Pole. We should mount a rocket and get a piece.
Alex

[glend]

Hmmm..another South China Sea island eh?

[gary]

Hi Alex,

Indeed it is, though they have started to detect tenuous amounts of water
vapour elsewhere in the lunar atmosphere whenever a meteor makes an
impact.

Where the Chinese would get an enormous head-start in planning is to
pore over the volumes and volumes of publicly available studies for
building moonbases that NASA commissioned from the likes of Boeing and
North American Rockwell in the 1970's.

An enormous amount of engineering time and money must have gone
into these proposals.

For example, imagine the amount of expert knowledge that would go
into this one recommendation amongst thousands from one of the many
Rockwell studies from the '70's :-



and so on and so on.
See https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19710016382.pdf

The North American Rockwell proposal concluded at the time the optimal
place to build a base was within Kopff crater supported by an orbiting
Lunar Station. NASA and the University of Houston expanded the study
to build a colony inside Kopff crater.

Kopff Crater was chosen as the site for the lunar colony mainly because
its limb location was more conducive to some of the research effort
envisioned for a colony away from the influence of the earth.

They wanted to perform astronomy there, which sounds like a great idea
to me, and at the time proposed to build multiple telescopes there.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19730002509.pdf

This was before they discovered water down at the south pole.

But I like the Kopff crater location simply because the name has this
really good ring about it. :lol:

See http://nassp.sourceforge.net/wiki/Moonbases

[xelasnave]

Now this is where our genetic engineering should take over. Cant we play with a humans dna and build a humanoid that does not need a space suit and gets their oxygen from the rocks☺.
I wonder how humans might change if you had multiple generations of folk knowing only the Moon.
I think underground would be the way to go on the Moon..go big like those underground cities in Turkey from ancient times..20,000 population they think☺
So replicate Earth under ground..trees for oxygen and natural systems to manage the water system...so I womder how many trees would each human need to get a handle on how much digging we need to do.
And of course if we found something we could mine deep down that paid for the dream it could work out...hard to imagine major cities underground on the Moon with their own forests...
Alex

[alan meehan]

Yep lets just stuff up the moon as well

[michaellxv]

No need to dig Alex. You are building inside a deep crater, just put a lid on it and you are underground already.


Michael.

[xelasnave]

That is a great idea when you think it through.
Just bring the football stadium builders into the discussion...great way to start but I am now set on gaint underground paradise set ups... hey it would be funny if we dig down bent on colonising the Moon but at 300 feet under and we run into a civilization already set up like I propose☺....and every planet and Moon we check out in the solar system that we can land on all have underground civilizations more advanced than we can conceive...the Chinese dont know what they are getting us into..next thing it will be war between humans and the civilizations underground on the Moon.
I wonder when and if humans will set foot again on the Moon.
Alex

[glend]

Alex I suggest you watch a movie called "The Titan". It's about human DNA engineering to create a being that can live on Titan without a need for a habitat or suit. It's on Netflix. Scary

[xelasnave]

Yes Glen there are few ideas that are original.
Still I do like the idea of underground caves of paradise.
I expect if our species survives that in time we will see colonies on the Moon and maybe Mars..they will find something..rare earth material or something that will make not having a mine on the Moon unthinkable.
We cant inagine what does not exist easily but consider where we were 60 years ago..for me I was trying to understand how they got Sputnik to stay up there..so lucky to see it..and perfect straight above no cloud...seemed ordinary but given how weather hides major events I now appreciate how lucky to see it.
Australia needs to get up there and mark out and claim territory. I see a business ..making knives for rock stars using impact material mined from the Moons craters.
Moon dust for mud packs maybe.
We need to get up there before its all gone.
Alex

[doug mc]

Seeing that anywhere outside this wonderful planet is extremely hazardous to human life, a genetically modified person may be necessary. Even then it probably won't work. Yes, i am not hopeful about long term space travel, or colonization.

[Startrek]

Hmmm.. moon bases to me means “mining”
There’s heaps of helium 3 in the regolith of the moon which is used for nuclear fusion
It’s a safe non radioactive isotope which is the prime ingredient in a fusion reactor
Byproduct is H2O amongst other things
It’s years away but fusion reactors could power our planet for centuries
Apollo 17 lunar module pilot Harrison ( Jack ) Schmidt proposed the idea 10 years ago and was ignored
What else do you fly to the moon for .... geology , views of the earth ?
The US has already done that , how many more rock samples do you need to study
Think about it for a while .........

[raymo]

You ship smallish space vessel components to the moon, assemble them there, and off you go, with only 1/6th of the earth's gravity to impede you.
No need for an aerodynamically designed craft, unless you are planning on entering another body's atmosphere. I'm confident that barring unforeseen
catastrophes, the moon will eventually become our jumping off point.
raymo

[multiweb]

Anybody remember that show?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYXEgW_0mns

[RB]

Yes, I do.
It was way before of Prince though....

:D

[cannon_gray]

The space race has begun.. When they walk we will talk.

[Merlin66]

I think you need to view the Netflix mini series “Mars” the conflict between science and profit are well explained.
Actually quite a thought provoking set of scenarios, well worth watching.

[Hans Tucker]

Or maybe ...

https://youtu.be/8CvURidpkCY

[iborg]

Hi
Unfortunately,I also suspect that the Moon is the ultimate high ground for warfare.
Philip

[glend]

I am sure the SpaceX folks will be there to welcome them.

[TrevorW]

In 1958, an American military commander (http://spaceflighthistory.blogspot.com/2015/08/he-who-controls-moon-controls-earth-1958.html) stated in a speech, “He who controls the Moon, controls the Earth.”

http://spaceflighthistory.blogspot.com/2015/08/he-who-controls-moon-controls-earth-1958.html

[alpal]

Jump to 21:40 here to see a discussion on Helium 3.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkEnO-qg-z8

[xelasnave]

I bet no one recalls a post I made back around 2005..2006? When I said I met a Chinese chap at an open house I was doing for my Sons real estate office where in I told of the plans this chap from China shared about their space program...and the subsequent poo poo comments.....well?

Alex

[JA]

Wow, that's certainly an extrapolation of the high ground advantage:D

It reminds me of another sort of analogous quote by Nathan Mayer Rothschild in 1815 along the lines that he didn't care which puppet was in power, it was whoever controlled the money supply that controlled everything (and he controlled the money supply)

Best
JA

[TrevorW]

Getting closer to that time we all will need to learn to speak Mandarin, ?? :)

[Boozlefoot]

At last! Somewhere to store the trusty F70600's! :) F60700 525X High Magnification Astronomical Refractive Telescope High Tripod

[forrestwhite]

Russia and China will cooperate on the creation of an international scientific lunar station. Within the framework of the project, Russia and China will jointly develop a roadmap for the creation of a lunar station, and will also cooperate "in planning, justifying, designing, developing, implementing, operating a project to create an MNLS, including its presentation to the world space community."

[pmrid]

We won’t need a full vocabulary; just some key phrases such as:
Don’t shoot.
Where’s the cotton field?
I am not a Muslim, Hindu, Catholic, Jew ........