UV C Light Source

[Outcast]

Does anyone know where one can get a UV-C lamp at a reasonable cost from a reputable supplier?

I'm investigating the use of one to help treating all my optics (EP's, Scopes, Camera Lenses, etc...) to ensure no mould is growing....

All my kit is stored in well ventilated area of the house; desiccant sachet's in all the boxes, etc.. but, humidity & mould are an enduring problem living in the tropics.

I have looked online but, all I can seem to find is commercial setups.

I'm well aware of the dangers & precautions required with UV-C light, basically I just want a lamp with a UV-C globe that I can setup in a separate room & treat my optics every few months or so, especially after the wet season.

Thanks

[RB]

Carlton this is what I do.
Bought a pair of UV tubes from Jaycar and put them in a dual fluro holder setup from the hardware.
https://www.jaycar.com.au/40-watt-black-light-fluoro-tube/p/SL3152

I expose all my optics to UV regularly to stop fungus growth.

RB

[Outcast]

Are they UV-C though Andrew?

I thought one had to use UV-C to kill/prevent mould growth?

Is that not the case, will regular UV black light do the job?

Cheers

Carlton

[bojan]

Exposure to direct sunlight could do the trick...

[raymo]

I don't remember whether UV-C is at the lower or upper end of the UV
frequency range,[ I suspect upper because it is much more dangerous than lower] but collectors of the stamps of many countries use UV
lamps of both varieties to detect watermarks. The lamps are fluoros,
and from memory are about $25-35 on ebay under philatelic accessories
if I remember correctly. They are battery powered, but could easily be converted
to run off a 6v power supply from the mains.
raymo

[Outcast]

UV-C is at the 'harmful' end of the spectrum.. looking at it's wavelength, I think that accords with the higher end of the UV freq range.. shorter wavelength = higher frequency.

Ultraviolet C UVC 100–280Nm

From what I'm reading, this is the specific form of UV light that is effective against mould... not sure if the philatelic lights are what I'm after...

What I've read suggests I'm after a 'Germicidal UV light'.. but, thus far I can only find commercial suppliers of globes & my electrical knowledge is not good enough to figure out if I can fit one of those globes / tubes into a standard fluoro holder...

Cheers

[raymo]

As far as killing mould goes, the philatelic upper range UV lamps would do
the job, dangerous to look at the reflection of one, let alone the lamp itself.
As for practical reasons, I wouldn't know.
raymo

[Outcast]

No worries Raymo,

Thanks for that, I'll take a close look at those lamps, perhaps they are capable of more than I appreciated.

Cheers

[Ukastronomer]

Just remember a UV lamp is useless if things like camera lenses have UV coatings the light wont work because it obviously won't penetrate the UV coatings

DON'T leave gear in closed cupboards, let air circulate none of my gear gets stored with caps on


.

[bojan]

Another possibility is to use mercury lamp (like ones used for street illumination).
You just need to break the outer shell (with fluorescent material) and extract the inner tube.
I was using such prepared lamps for EPROM erasure and as exposure lamp when making my own PCB's

[xelasnave]

So will jaycar tubes work. I have a room that gets mold and I wonder of they could fix yhat problem.
Alex

[luka]

Not likely. The description says "For live music, discos, night clubs, and great for parties.", i.e. they are UV-A and not UV-C.

[bojan]

Also, for disinfection of larger volumes, power is not sufficient. I imagine you may need ~1kW for that.

[Huey]

What about the UV sterilizers that people use in fish tanks? They plug straight into mains power and can probably be used without water (although I'm not sure). I know they definitely keep fish tanks algae free.

Huey

[ChrisV]

At my work biosafety cabinets have uvc light to kill bugs. BUT it only supposedly works if it hits then directly, not through anything. Plus the guidelines say (I think) that it is not enough alone. There are problems of bug contamination if it is the only thing used.

[Outcast]

Thanks Gentlemen,

there is a lot of technical information out there & then a tremendous amount of opinion to go along with it & it is quite difficult to figure out whether it's worth the investment or not.

All of my gear is stowed inside the house, things in sealed, airtight boxes are loaded with dessicant satchels which I change out reasonably regularly. Leaving anything in a closed cupboard up here is a big no - no, including clothes & shoes, things just grow mould.. we have our main wardrobes designed with louvred doors to keep air circulating & our fans on moving air almost 24/7...

A photographer friend of mine put me onto the UV-C idea, he uses it & swears by it but, he got his setup from a mate who has food hygiene industry contacts but, isn't in Cairns anymore... he also mentioned the removal of UV filters too...

I'm meticulous in letting my gear dry out after a nights viewing, everything has caps removed, turned to allow moisture to run off, the dew up here is beyond crazy, especially in our wet season...

I might just try putting things out in the sun (when the dry season gets here, eventually)... Thus far, apart from the inside of my SCT corrector plate (which I have now cleaned) I have managed to avoid mould (as far as I know but, I'm paranoid about it) so want to embark upon a proven prevention method rather than scrambling to try & clean things when it's noticed because, it's almost impossible to get it all once it's there...

You guys have given me a few promising leads that I have investigated a little more fully & on a cost basis, the philatelic lights look like they might do the trick with some small modification.. so, if I end up going that route the plan is to then attach one to an extension lead in a separate room so, I can set it up over a couple of eyepieces or a scope, walk out of the room & then turn it on, thus avoiding the dangers of UV-C light...

Not sure just yet.. bit more reading to do before I commit

Cheers

[sil]

correct they are not uvc they are blue light and some uva end of spectrum (longwave uv), likewise all those torches on ebay. if you can find an old incandescent blacklight bulb they do tons of uvc, give you skin cancer, hurt your eyes etc, thats the right stuff. sure tons of people use the other sorts but then people stick crystals up their bums to cure cancer too apparently. using and doing the job are two vastly different things.

[sil]

there is so much misinformation around UV especially cleaning products. how to prove your lenses are going to sprout green if you dont buy one? or that your existing care practices are fine? you wont buy two identical lenses to test over then next decade will you? no, nor will anyone else, so the marketers say whatever they want knowing you can't prove them wrong or even try. uv is not uv, uv c is not uvc either. its all ranges centered at a value, like a bell curve. UV light is invisible, it NOT BLUE or purple and the shorter wavelength end in strong amounts like emitted by the sun causes damage so you get sunburnt on cloudy days. the longwave end it up near 400nm where visible blue is part of the spectra and a small amount of uva which is enough to excite the ink in a fluro marker. but at the shortwave end down near 260nm is the dangerous high energy UVC. Its difficult to make emitters, thus genuine lamps are expensive, plus the associated health risks. security features in use often are tuned to a specific wavelength and have reader units filtered to those wavelengths. Often there are multiple security features and only one show up under the typical uv lamps consumers find, the second or third features remain invisible until the shorter wavelengths become present. its a simple method to check something and also make forgery so much more difficult as some ingredients in the inks is controlled and if the forger manages multiple inks they must be tuned to the reader devices that expect a certain strength reaction at several specific wavelengths.

there are some affordable cleaning/hygiene lamps that you can find though that may help prevent mould (but you wont know if you dont buy two lenses and usely use the lamp on one and your regular method on the other plus have a way to measure mould growth and count). some actually state this wavelengths and usually it'll be 365nm at the lowest, you need something peaking at around 265nm. many people maintain humity control is the key factor anyway. from the professions of stamps collecting/investing, book preservation, wines etc which are all at risk of ruin by mould and temperature/humidity factors to more of a degree than whatever rubbish camera gear consumers can buy. the answer universally is a wine fridge, it maintains a safe constant temp/humidity level to deter growth of micro-organisms. but if you want to insist a uv lamp is the answer than go for it, let us know your method and findings to back it up against the existing evidence.

[mental4astro]

Most enlightening, Steve. I have had some concerns about the "Ebay" stuff, and my suspicions were not misplaced.

In some instances, it isn't about preventing mould, but killing what is there already. And in many instances it is about killing the mould before opening up scopes and stuff to clean them. It's to attempt to control the spread of the spores before opening up the gear. Then I would have thought a decent UVC source would/could be beneficial (?).

Alex.

[Outcast]

Thanks Steve,

You are quite correct; it's a bit of a minefield out there when it comes to information & more importantly, the veracity of that information.

What got me going on this thought path was the apparent appearance of mould blooms on the inside of my SCT corrector plate.

I have subsequently opened the scope & cleaned the offending area. To be honest, I still don't know if they were in fact mould blooms but, not really sure what else they could have been.

I'm keeping a close eye on my gear; I haven't decided yet whether to try the UVC path. I by that, I do indeed mean the low frequency, sub 265nm wavelength source.

Having done quite a bit of research, I'm not yet totally convinced either & as you state, the specialised units are not cheap. To reassure you, I am very aware of the dangers of this stuff; if I do decide to go this route, I will be organising in a way that sees me set everything up then, leave the room, shut the door & turn on the source from outside the room.

Thanks for your info, it is good to get information that is reliable & not motivated by marketing.

I might just try exposing my gear to sunlight (when we get some)... costs nothing to try...

Cheers





That's exactly why I am exploring this Alex, humidity is such an issue up here in the tropics & it's just not practical (I simply don't have the space) for me to invest in a dry cupboard or wine fridge sufficiently big enough for my gear.

I know mould is a big potential problem up here; I'm meticulous about letting my gear dry out before caps go on (usually 24 hours drying after a session) & dessicant throughout all my storage boxes. Not a guarantee though as I think I found with my SCT; even changing EPs allows small amounts of moisture inside, especially when our night time humidity can be up in the 90% range.

Trouble is trying to sort out the facts from fiction & marketing spin... Oh, & ebay, was never going to be my source...

Cheers

[Outcast]

The other issue of concern is what about the effects of UV exposure on plastic, rubber & painted components?

Most of those items don't respond well to UV exposure.. that is another consideration in my thought process...

[bojan]

UV definitelly affect plastic.. you have to chosse - kill moss or damage plastic (however I wouldn't be too concerned about it - plastic is much more resilient compared living tissue)

[sil]

plus plastics and rubbers deteriorate over time anyway. there is no way to prevent the natural course of things going on.

For practical purposes to what you want to achieve, first step and you are doing it already is using desicants to just soak up humidity in and around your storage boxes and items. I use in my storage tubs at home a handful of kitty litter in an open bag taped inside up against the side. purely to absorb humidity and i doubt its doing any good. but the stuff is meant to absorb moisture. you could use rice too or feminine hygene products, whatever is meant to absorb moisture. I'd avoid the clay type stuff of cheap kitty litter that is very dusty. My garage is full of storage containers (since my stroke a ot of things at home are just in the way or i cant use unless i can raise money for treatment so I've packed away things I dont want to part with just yet and used this in each tub just to try help protect everything. Anything scented or has a strong smell is likely to have evaporating oils and additives that can effect things around it long term. this is not just my astro gear. There are dessicants that can be "rejuvinated" by heating in an oven, the ones i've tried I find give off water vapour because its hard to get the heating even throughout to drive out the water, instead its driven out of one pellet and into the neighbouring ones and so on, so unless you can heat for a week or more to be certain its all dry it may do more harm than good.

if you have your own tubs and happy to modify you can rig up something to use Damp Rid along the lines of a softdrink bottle with bottom cut off, upturned with a plastic sieve inside and the "cap" end poking through a grommit hole in the tub. that way as the damp rid works by absorbing moisture and turning to liquid it can drain out the bottom to say a bucket you empty periodically (basically expand the damp rid system as it comes to a larger volume so you can bulk fill and bulk empty once or twice a year.

Similarly of cource are dehumifiers, can be costly and problematic in other ways and still need regular emptying of water.

inside your equipment tubs we tend to have foam to protect the gear. this does absorb moisture and provide breeding grounds for microbials so first is to have replaceable foam, and probably minimal points of contact to reduce surface area for transference of micro stuff. Along with the foam padding I'd suggest some form of sheetin to gentle sit in the padded form that you can dispose and replace regularly. This is your sacrificial layer to try to keep the microbes off the inorganic gear and soak up condensation from your gear. say a cheap towel or the paper stuff hotels put on toilets for your safety. craft store can probably help with maybe absorbant packing paper to do the job. museums and archives must use something similar to protect the stored specimens so that could be worth looking into.

I would suggest working outside in.

- start with your clean empty tub, spray it inside and out with a good surface spray for killing insects.This is to kill anything that comes in from outside clinging to your gear plus to deter things from taking up residence on your tub. the more creepy crawlies there are the more bodily waste is adjacent to your gear and the more miro nasties are going to be present. This is a preventative barrier from physical transfer of bacteria from outside to inside by all the little carriers. You dont want roaches and spiders and frogs clinging on the back of the tub to dive inside when you lift the lid.

- next spray the inside of the tub with Glen 20 to actually kill whatever is there and prevent new stuff surviving. I use this myself everywhere at home, being physically disabled i can't scrub floors etc clean like i used to and I started with stuff i got from hospital in a spray bottle to eliminate odours and mould in troublesome areas, later i found glen20 to be perfectand means i can use what little time i get to focus on better cleaning where it is a must.

- next put your padding in and spray with glen 20. foam padding i think is really bad but for practical reasons we all use it. more sterile padding than a giant sponge is better. plus ever bought foam yourself? its always in a giant warehouse open to all sorts of dust and insects. So god knows whats already living in it even when you buy it "new". maybe the best thing is to use a frame for your gear and where is contacts the gear use a line of silastic or expander foam as sterile padding you can easily replace in the future. if the storage needs to travel then foam is probably most practical.

- drape on your sacrificial sheet to provide a physical transferrence barrier between your padding and your gear. this needs to be simple and easy toreplace as needed. maybe lightly spray with glen20.

- also the tub lid should have a replacable seal of some sort to avoid airbourne contamination.


All of the above is just my advice for everyone. its all about preventing microorganisms and spores etc from physically reaching your valuable gear. It can't be 100% certain but in my experience the above doesn't increase risk of harm. Use common sense, dont use desicannts that are dusty or any materials that flake or drop threads etc. and replace things periodically before they start to perish as by that time the little nasties you can't see with the eye are everwhere.

Another prevention area is the gear itself. use a good lubricant on moving and fitting parts. I use Super Lube exclusively for everything. Just has good consistent properties in all weather conditions I've used and so far hasn't changed over time. I have the grey tube. a little goes a very long way I find too. so a tiny dab can coat your focus tube for example. this is not just for keeping that parts from wearing out with use but fills in the air gap again where dust and airbourne stuff get find its way to the interior of your gear. One last one: rust. Ferrous metal parts can easily rust in the tropics or on the coast and spraying wd40 into a rag and just wiping these surface down where possible can help prolong parts before they rust. Be careful NOT to spray your gear as the wd40 will work its way into threaded areas and joins and can start to loosen the gear undesirably or even react/dissolve existing lubrications/greases and quickly ruin things for you. spray into a clean rag and gently wipe onto exterior metals where you can, it only takens a miniscule amount to cover a large surface, if the surface is one you handle or gets a lot of contact movement (eg between mount and its tripod) pay attention often and the surfaces shouldn't be slipery to handle (youve put way too much on). This is great for disused gear too in storage to just help protect them. same principle used during the war where barrells fille with oil would have vital metal parts dropped and stored in them, not suggestable for your nice 14" sct though. you can also look into upgrading some parts to annodized aluminium.

Again this is all my personal opinion ans some of what I do myself. I like to look after my gear but i dont baby it either. I have some nice cameras and while I see some people using stickon rubber feet all over their camera so its body can never touch a flat surface, I accept mine will get scratches and dings and develope character over time. I use screen protectors which now have cracks and chips because accidents will happen and they are doing their jobs, the screens underneath are fully functional and undamaged.

With that in mind I offer the above with some reasonings so anyone else interested can try to help prolong their gear for the best enjoyment and cost efficiency. Use common sense too and use/adapt/ignore my advice for your own reasons and circumstances. We can't all have climate controlled hermetically sealed observatories with gear stored by robots in a vacuum sealed airlocked storage room.

Notice the lack of UV lights too. But if you must, then be aware that most now are LED or energy saver style bulbs and these are all low energy and limited wavelengths so are not likely to actually kill off much bacteria (not sure they would even damage eggs or spores) I think glen20 is the better option. But with opticsa bulb is at least non contact. So look for the old 100W incandescent type or something from a scientific instrument supplier. Research though exactly what angstrom ranges are effective against microbials and also which are damagin to rubbers and plastics. it may be you can't have on without the other. Like fire, which kills microbials too, but will certainly damage your gear. I havent look for lights specifically as i dont think i need such a solution and dont need the negative effects in my life either. But there may be something thats been developed for non-contact sterilisation of equipment to 100% effectiveness (think biohazardous labs) not merely "hospital grade" which is alarmingly low. dont believe marketing hype, there are things out there that may be hard to find and possibly impossible to acquire but search for yourself and try to find something that suits your situation. the ebay stuff treat as placebo, it may work but probably not so long as you are aware of that and ok with it.

[Outcast]

Thanks Steve,

Plenty to digest & and consider

Cheers