Question for the Ha imagers and viewers please

[Ukastronomer]

I have the setup in the photograph.

Quark daystar Ha, 72mm Ed

1. Would you expect to see granulation and detail on the sun visually, see photo 2, NOT mine.

2. If so what am I doing wrong as all I ever see is a plain sun no detail

Thanks

[AstroJunk]

With a DS Lunt, yes. Plenty of surface detail visually, but not like your example photo - that looks like a coloured white light shot to me and not Ha.

The attached photo is fairly realistic visually.

[Ukastronomer]

Sorry but I was specifically asking about the Daystar setup not what others get thank you

Thanks for the comments though, MUCH appreciated

THE REASON IS THAT Daystar filters do not work like other Ha scopes

[h0ughy]

Jeremy,
I think you were politely told what you would get with a ha setup.
The image you showed is a coloured white light shot probably taken with a scope over 100mm Dia with a camera with a bit of grunt in white light. It was processed to look like that. You also need bloody good seeing.
Jonathan is a very experienced solar viewer and imager . And his opinion in my view counts.

My opinion not so much but I do have an example which is mine
http://www.parkes.atnf.csiro.au/news_events/astrofest/DMA/2014_shortlist/ss-hires/David_Hough_02.jpg
It is a white light shot

This is a ha shot made from sticking a few grabs to make a disc http://www.parkes.atnf.csiro.au/news_events/astrofest/DMA/2014_shortlist/ss-wf/David_Hough_03.jpg

What Jonathan showed you is close to what you should see through the camera

If that doesn't suit you then go here

https://solarchatforum.com

[Ukastronomer]

I appreciate what the poster said which is why I thanked them for their time,

[Ukastronomer]

Thanks for the link



Many thanks, appreciated

[Ukastronomer]

THIS is all I ever see

[Ukastronomer]

When "viewing" the Ha, do you actually SEE this detail or only when imaged

[JA]

For the image you've shown, being able to see the dark lines between the solar granules determines whether you will see:

1. a smooth orange yellow disc with an earth sized black sunspot hole or
2. a red/orange/black detailed granular image showing filaments entering the black sunspot.

Based on the image, the dark lines between the solar granules are in the region of 0.3 -0.5 arcseconds wide (and larger in some areas). You will not see (nor image) this detail with a small telescope. In order to see?/image such would require a large aperture telescope, excellent seeing ± adaptive optics or better yet something in orbit:D.

You will be able to see/image some degree of granulation, with a large enough aperture scope with sufficient abberation free resolution but would be limited to solar detail probably no smaller than 1 to 1.5 arc seconds being limited by typical excellent/good seeing, unless you go a dessert somewhere in Chile for, I think: 0.6 to 1 second type seeing (although I'm not sure if that's still achieved for daytime seeing). Anyway, with such seeing someone with probably ~2000-3000mm focal length and sufficient aperture and cameras would have a good show at some excellent results.

Best
JA

[h0ughy]

When it is in focus and the seeing is good you see a lot of wavy detail. Your image is not focused. Also the daystar is a barlowed camera, so seeing will be crucial. Focus on the outer limb first you will have to adjust the gain settings and tweak the bandwidth knob to get some features.
Here is an example https://youtu.be/Gdw98SoUiDg
And earlier in 2012
https://youtu.be/-uOo_bK7LoM

[Ukastronomer]

many thanks

[mental4astro]

Jeremy,

What model Quark do you have, Chromasphere or Prominence? This makes a big difference.

It is the Chromasphere model that will show more granulation. If you have the Prom. model, like I do, granulation is there, but it takes a patient eye to view it, and patience with waiting for the tuning to do its thing.

A Quark does not have the range of tuning capability of a dedicated Ha scope, even from that of modest PST. This is why there are two Quark models, each designed for a specific aspect of Ha viewing. This is the trade off that Daystar has always been at pains to express.

My Prom. Quark is stupendous with prominences. I can see chromasphere details, but I need to be much more patient. Even with all my patience, I still sometimes need a helping hand from something like a dedicated Ha scope to track down the chromasphere features through my Quark, or as I more often do, use the H alpha network web site to get an Ha image to chase down these features:

http://halpha.nso.edu

What also helps with bringing out chromasphere features is to change eyepieces to vary the magnification and hence the contrast range. This is a BIG help. I even sometimes use a 0.5X 1.25" reducer to really squeeze the image when using a 30mm plossl. It doesn't increase the TFOV, but what it does is concentrate the image which helps the eye in its response to pulling out chromasphere details. Don't just use the one eyepiece or magnification with a Quark. Varying the magnification is a very good trick.

I use my Quark with an ED80. I can just get a whole of disk image with it, but it's not what I would describe as a usable whole of disk image - scope has too long a focal length for the Quark to do this. But this isn't a concern for me as I am primarily chasing proms, and any surface features I pull are an added bonus.

The last two pics below of my sketches shows I can see plages, sunspots, filaments and all manner of other surface features with my Quark. Just don't rush your gear or your eyes.

ALSO, right now there has been little solar activity, which makes spotting granulation on the surface more difficult for our eyes as there is bugger all features to allow our eyes to focus on and make their necessary adjustments. This current solar activity minimum has been a very deep one. Very little activity of any kind has been visible for some time. So not entirely your fault either. If you look at the GONG site linked above, you will see the Sun really is showing bugger all activity. Next to nothing really.

Alex.

PS, the Quark is not a camera. It is an Ha optical filter with electronic tuning of the etalon. There is no CCD or CMOS or other such element inside.

[Wavytone]

Love those sketches !

[Ukastronomer]

Chromosphere, thanks

[Ukastronomer]

Ok clever person (nice way)

barlow on a Quark, I thought it had a barlow (telecentric) built in dumb question, add another ???

[h0ughy]

Jeremy,
There are no excuses here, be polite and respect those that have politely answered your question.

If you don't like the response don't reply to it. However I am sure that there are those with experience who have answered you.

[Ukastronomer]

You need to understand the use of English (nice way)

I clearly stated Ok clever person (NICE WAY)

in other words tongue in cheek, you are clever where as I am not

It was a compliment, in English obvously mis-understood by you

Perhaps the fact that as I have stated here all too often I am AUTISTIC, I have co morbid ADHD and ASPERGERS means I write "literally", but should NOT have to explain myself every time

If you had taken the time to re read what I said "Ok clever person (nice way)" (nice way) you would have seen it was a compliment and not rude

Next time |I will add a few;););););)


Oh, and he and I have been talking a lot in PMs, the person is VERY helpful and I thank him here for his much appreciated help.

[mental4astro]

Jeremy, no need to add a bunch of :) :) :) :)

Not any more :thumbsup:

Your friend,

Alex.

[Ukastronomer]

Can I say, thank you to everyone on this forum, I have been on many (and banned from two because of my Autism and lack of communication skills)

This is the nicest forum I have ever been on

[Ukastronomer]

You are a good man Charlie Brown ..............................;)

[mental4astro]

No, not a barlow. The opposite, put a focal reducer in the eyepiece.

One of those cheap 1.25" 0.5X focal reducers you can get say from Ebay:

Ebay 1.25" 0.5X focal reducer (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Datyson-1-25-Telescope-0-5X-Focal-Reducer-Threads-M28-0x0-6-fr-31-75mm-Eyepiece/142979409785?hash=item214a3ca779:rk :4:pf:1&checksum=14297940978559e74395d33440 9b98ba20dcee78aaa8&enc=AQADAAADAFjVrDbVsZ8oH%2F8PNHtt9 VX4%2Fw7FZcmMuqsX8uaFEduVAPMaUyj148 teCks6NnZ6Fd8%2BXDEw0%2FDJA%2Bqeor% 2BSPu%2BhQw0UE%2Bv7iOK6e7lwhMU%2BHS QBTNr%2B%2BlVaZJaignGc1D0DjLl94XSjW V%2BONjyCrm9BjehS4TH1mao7yGr3nCykaF nEoyEuGNhX5gGAVhYrTr6Ny1O6B3MU7TOaU qW8E7Gf8lTWvVNqHHpvy1tbZE5hpaqQQ7C0 V%2BbizK3Ffd6ckhEBXJDxq42NyJebGF%2F OxYClTnV0e9F%2B7SM5%2BPPFfnozFA%2Bt BglbGd4YgFiiK59%2FMwf1xXFMkPPv0etDv ZkGj%2BBoE07SQsczdqF82Bpp82QkGFH5%2 BN5%2FHCi0wqs%2FOOlYLTdX3w75QIifuPV YLNCsyXh0b367fDMUe%2BkuD8Em8c3loZc4 bXRT1gatFNrEzzvEYAGyI2sPo0I5nvjypTJ IZ5neDq80%2F4TxI27ou6S1kf%2BWrtre2B dfSA8Ef8P9CXCdLvNBfhtRo3911E1AYUy8g dsr7F2LWDwkheP%2B1OyKBPFRDhTxLmKZZh DoKs1F5k2JRsdir4DjTK8cZxm50bSNP%2B4 zI7eSuwBXVsqFfzmnQPJqVRhymBdvnNi3nH usN3ogDkOUCCWBQz1QQsUl3EYXsx4%2Bl0P RKi1VqPKEUAWkUIGzYk1uWtdv31bnw0wDW3 QyDllMeEzKKdi6V7x%2FweVGPQvu9yQox4q YDErGAKTXXUpF7jGdi%2Fxx4kXommxOt81v G6NiVHUxqMLYldAUjFm9SrFU4yrIJ8mhrVw HkvrTu9H7B4fg1AGUH0DhJ37HxvL4dSRjcC hjLWhfURpbOxF1%2BtuM0wVXqkEcZ4VVeO1 qCnVy2M5xUEifigA4RM4B%2Frn7C8ScYwoz cgSQjVuvyOzYcBvLrvgZ%2FkoumzIpUzxmy %2BbUOK4limE6DqE2qdR9g2i39p19GkU%2F 4Cp03OUaon9OTeSoewnux%2Bvuf2dSLHRS5 ASHi%2BLWpLpLTgGDCZ2atwzSCg%3D%3D&frcectupt=true)

The picture in that ad shows how to use the reducer ON THE EYEPIECE. Do not put it on the Quark. I use my focal reducer with my 25mm plossl eyepiece.

The reducer won't magnify the image. It will actually make it smaller. What this does is concentrate's the Sun's image into a much smaller image, and this can help our eyes more easily identify some features. Like you suggest, it makes no sense to add another barlow to a Quark. What we want to do is REDUCE magnification :)

There's a few little tricks that can be done with a Quark:

* Changing between a couple of eyepieces or using Zoom eyepiece
* Using a focal reducer
* Using an aperture mask to reduce the effective aperture of the scope.
* And of course tuning the Quark as conditions change.

I use all of these with my Quark. These are all just little tools that help exploit the Quark visually. I can use all of these during a session with my Quark, not relying on just one single tool for the one single observing image.

Photography with the Quark is a different matter. The image of the Sun in photography is manipulated externally through a computer. Even this processing takes its own time and experience, and is not an instant fix. The dynamic range of the light from the Sun is really challenging to deal with photographically. A lot of work goes into producing a photo that shows proms, granulation, filaments and sunspots. And sometimes the most subtle of features just cannot be seen on a photo, but can only be seen visually. That is why I LOVE my Prom. Quark. Solar photography is a really niche discipline!

Everything that you see in Ha photographs of the Sun you can see through your Quark. But our eyeballs are different from cameras and computers, so we need to use different methods to exploit the Quark. Even with a dedicated Ha telescope, there are different visual tricks that can be used to improve the visibility of different features, not just the Quark.

Alex.

[Ukastronomer]

"No, not a barlow. The opposite, put a focal reducer in the eyepiece.

One of those cheap 1.25" 0.5X focal reducers you can get say from Ebay:"

AH..................... thanks

I have a few of those

[mental4astro]

Remember, a focal reducer is just one tool to use and exploit during your session. It is not the only item to use, nor will it reveal everything you want. Use in combination with other techniques.

Alex.

[Ukastronomer]

Learning ..................................: )

[Ukastronomer]

I am ordering this in a week

https://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/sky-watcher-solarquest-solar-go-totracking-mount-tripod.html

As I said I have problems doing more than one thing at a time adjusting the Quark, tracking, looking, re adjusting all on a MANUAL mount, so this will help with my disability and allow me to try out everything the good people of this forum have advised me to,

[mental4astro]

Looks like a useful bit of kit.

[N1]

Hi Jeremy et al, here is a shot* taken from sea level in less-than perfect seeing through 70mm of aperture and a Herschel wedge in September 2017. White light. Granulation is visible, even if individual granules are not. They are still a photospheric (read: white light) feature, so a H alpha setup is not needed to see them. If anything, it probably makes them harder to see. What a H alpha setup will show, and a white light rig won't, is the chromospheric network, itself caused by supergranulation beneath it.

https://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/feature2.shtml#Network


*actually a short video with some stacking applied.

[Ukastronomer]

All replies much appreciated and printed off for my folder