PHD2 Guiding - Camera Keeps Looping

[Startrek]

Don’t know if anyone can offer an explanation on the following issue -
I have been guiding successfully now for a few months usually around 1 to 1.5 arc sec error which has enabled me to take up to 5 minute exposures and tac sharp stars
The issue is when I connect and start looping exposures sometimes it takes 10 seconds for the camera to lock on ready for calibration and guiding and other times quite often looping drags on beyond the preset 40 seconds and I get an error display
This has happened on the same night a number of times with clear skies and not a cloud in sight
Guide Scope - Orion 50mm mini with helical focuser
Guide camera - ZWO ASI 120MM
Main scope - 6” f6 newt on a HEQ5 mount
PHD2 version 2.6.5
Camera exposure duration 2 seconds
Brain settings camera
Noise reduction 2x2 mean
Auto exposure 1 to 5 sec
Target SNR 15
Saturation via star profile
Pixel size 3.75
Camera gain 95
Binning 1
Disconnect 40 sec
Brain settings guiding
Search region 15 pixels
Star Mass detection enable tolerance 60
Min star HFD 0
Focal length 162mm
Calibration step 700ms
Use DEC compensation
Auto restore calibration unchecked
Always scale, Fast recentre, enable mount guide output all checked
Note : I have no issue at all connecting PHD2 to mount ( EQMOD HEQ5/6 Ascom ) and to my ZWO camera
Getting past the continuous looping is the problem , once the camera is taking exposures the guide button is green and away I go no issue

Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated
Thanks

[LewisM]

I am not sure what you mean.

When I used PHD or PHD2 (I use MaxIM exclusively now for guiding), I would loop to see the target, select one, press start and away it went doing it's calibration etc (I always set the Brain to recalibrate always). I have never used Auto-select star, always selecting my own.

[Startrek]

When I connect mount and camera then hit looping I have no image of the FOV from the camera in my PHD2 window , it’s all black
Could it be my focus ?
When I have successfully imaged a target with guiding , then stop guiding and move to another target say on the opposite side of the meridian I start looping again and just get a black screen for 40 seconds then the time out error message
Here’s a photo of my PHD2 screen when guiding is working ok just so you can see the layout. My camera’s FOV is on the left side bottom about a 120mm x 120mm square window in this photo you can see the star field and the guide star box and axis
When I have issues PHD2 just stays looping and no camera image just a black 120mm x120mm screen
Does the above make sense now ??

[doppler]

I did get that happening a few times when I first started autoguiding (asi120mc), but it doesn't happen anymore. My guess is that something is a bit loose (differential flexture) or the guide star is not good, bad focus or hot pixels? Have a play with the noise reduction settings, that sometimes helps me get a better guide star.

[brisen]

Hi Martin

I might be off track but the first thing that springs to mind is the gain settings. You might need to adjust the gain setting by sliding the slider in either direction until you see stars appear.

Brian

[Startrek]

Hi all,
I just read a post from PHD2 back in 2017 and this guy is having exactly the same issue as me except mine happens randomly not each time I Guide
See attached
PHD2 sends a signal to the camera driver but the camera hangs and sends no image at all even though it’s connected ok between the pc and camera
I did try sliding the gamma but you can tell when your all connected ok because you can see noise or at least something on the screen not just pitch black
I have the latest ZWO driver installed as well
I don’t use a hub mines connected straight to pc USB port
Could it be windows 10 home ??
Should I try a different hub ??
Any other ideas ?
It’s an uncommon failure and hard to pinpoint

[Startrek]

As the weather is atrocious in Sydney, I have connected the guide camera to my laptop on the kitchen table to try and resolve this intermittent fault
Out of 5 attempts it only connected once after looping for 5 seconds , the other 4 attempts kept looping and timed out
I checked the ZWO quick start Guide
The camera is found in Device Manager then Imaging devices
Clicked on ZWO ASI 120MM and camera properties pops up. Status is “This Device is working properly” ( what a joke )
I go into Driver tab and update driver , the best driver is already installed !
Go into power management tab , uncheck “ allow computer to turn off this device to save power” and then check box “ allow this device to wake the computer”
I then go into power options on my laptop and disable power saving of USB ports as recommended by ZWO

I’m running out of ideas / options as everything I’ve done in accordance with ZWO is not rectifying the problem
I’ve changed ports still not connecting
I don’t think it’s a PHD2 issue
I’m going to buy a new USB cable and try that ( camera is USB2 , cable is USB2 and laptop ports are USB 3 which shouldn’t be an issue )

Anybody out there got any further advice or similar experiences ??

Thanks in advance !!

[doppler]

Have you tried the camera with SharpCap ?

[chuckywiz]

Try replacing the usb cable. Was a common fault when they first came out the usb cable it came with. Some were just bunky

Ben

[kens]

Which ASI120MM is it - the USB2 or USB3 version? You can tell from the USB port on the camera. The USB3 version is the ASI120MM-S. The USB2 version has known issues e.g. when plugged into a USB3 port.

[Startrek]

Ken
It’s a USB2 camera as mentioned in my last post. When I bought the USB2 camera I checked with Bintel about the previously known issue with USB2 camera connecting to a USB3 port and they advised should be no issue as many customers successfully do this , so I bought it

Ben
I never used the original cable as it’s too short ( only used for ST4 connection ie: camera to mount ) I bought a 5m USB2 cable as I’m using Ascom direct laptop to camera which is recommended method by Stark Lab. I’ve ordered another 5m USB2 cable to try but I don’t think it’s the cable as I’m getting the audible tone when plugged in plus PHD2 is connecting to my camera but only 1 out of 5 or more attempts

Rick
I haven’t tried Sharpcap but I will

Thanks all !!

I still think it’s an unstable driver issue caused by windows 10. I noticed yesterday when I got a connection after looping , disconnected and tried 3 more times and it worked ok and thought wow I’ve nailed it , then unplugged the USB cable then plugged back in it would not connect after trying numerous times , it stayed looping and timed out ( so it has to be either cable or driver !!!)
I will uninstall everything and reinstall Ascom and camera drivers again
Last option would be to buy a new camera

Thanks again for the replies !

[luka]

Martin, try a shorter cable first. 5m is the limit of USB2 (unless it is an active extension cable).

Getting an audible tone in Windows only means that it detected the camera. However, once you start imaging you start pushing much more data through the cable and the corruption is more likely if the cable is anyhow bad.

[Startrek]

Hi Luke

I just tried a brand new 0.3m USB2 cable and it made no difference, after it says “camera connected” I click the looping icon and it keeps looping with no image just black screen until it times out at 30 sec
Then used used my 5m USB2 cable and same thing happened no image and timed out
It’s hit and miss sometimes it works with the 5m after 10sec , sometimes after 30 sec, sometimes not at all

Still think it’s a driver issue or windows 10 issue

Thanks for the suggestion

[Symon]

Not sure if this will help but I have a Zwo mini and
sometimes in Sharpcap it won't find it, if I unplug it from the camera end, not the computer it seems to go about its business as usual
Simon

[Startrek]

Hi All,
Just sort of resolved the problem !!
Downloaded PHD2 on my desktop ( windows 8 )
Downloaded Ascom and ZWO drivers
Driver found ok in Device manager / imaging devices
Set up specs in PHD2 for my ZWO camera
Plugged camera into a USB2 port , connected camera , started looping and bingo camera started taking exposures within 5 seconds of hitting the loop button
Tried this 10 times and worked every time perfectly within 5 seconds and with my existing 5m USB2 cable

Unplugged the cable and camera from my desktop and plugged it back into my Astro laptop and no go, still looping after time out and no image

My desktop has USB2 ports. ( windows 8 )

My Astro laptop has only USB3 ports ( windows 10)

My ZWO ASI 120MM is a USB2 camera !!

Looks like I need to buy a New ZWO USB3 camera and 5m USB3 cable !!!!!!

[kens]

Might be worth checking the USB bandwidth in the driver and reducing it. Costs nothing to try.

[Startrek]

Ken
Pardon my ignorance but how do I reduce the bandwidth in the driver ?

Martin

[kens]

Theres a control called "USB Traffic".
From the ASCOM Camera chooser you click Properties and it should appear below Gain and Offset.

[Startrek]

Thanks Ken

Cheers

[Merlin66]

Martin,
I have and use various guide cameras on both a Win7 and Win10 laptops -USB2 and USB3.
No major issues with PHD2 (or AstroArt which I also use for guiding)

Does the camera work 100% on both your computers using FireCapture??
http://www.firecapture.de/
This would be a good measure of compatibility...

[Terry B]

I agree with this. I found a similar camera locking up on an old computer of mine and it only worked if I turned the USB trafic down to the minimum.

[Startrek]

ZWO have acknowledged that there is a problem with the ASI120MM USB2 camera being connected via a USB3 port
They created a flash firmware upgrade for this camera but I’m not bothering with this bandaid workaround
I went and bought a ASI 120MM-S USB3 camera and problem now totally fixed, connects first time , time after time . Got a good deal from Bintel , and yes they are aware of this issue too.

Thanks to all for the advice , suggestions and good feedback

Might be a clear night tonight in Sydney so eager to get some good guiding with my new guide camera

Thanks again
Cheers
Martin

[Startrek]

Set up last night and used the new ZWO ASI130MM-S USB3 guide camera
It worked perfectly all night ( 4 hours ) and focusing was so easy
I don’t know how I put up with other camera for 3 or 4 months
I hope this post helps others
Cheers