Sorry to upset you folk.

[xelasnave]

I have decided to give up posting here but before I leave I would like to apologies to the people I may have offended... so I say I am sorry to present such confronting issues often unrelated to astronomy. It is inappropriate for me to challenge someone’s beliefs yet I can not refrain from presenting my views. I figure if I am not posting the problem will cease for those I offend.
I wish Mike and all who support him good luck. I have no grudges nor am I bitter and twisted about my last post re the legal realities being deleted but folk reading my comments to that point will have many misunderstandings as to the point I was attempting to make by not seeing the last post. I can live with that but I don’t want to continue upsetting people with my unfortunate approach as I do not wish that to be the result.
The best place for me is in the bush, it was my unfortunate social style that convinced me to retreat there in the first place and avoid contact with other humans. I think that is best as I also am not presented with things that offend me nor will I have opportunity to offend. So its really a good thing and the bright side all will benefit from my decision to leave and no ones beliefs will be upset.
I ask the moderators to please remove all posts you find that can cause others concern or upset.
Clear skies and happy days.
Best wishes alex

[casstony]

Couldn't you hang around but keep your posts more on topic? I imagine there are plenty forums for airing political views, etc. You need more than one forum just like we need more than one scope. Eccentric people make the world more interesting (no offence intended).

[Shawn]

Dont do it, your posts are fantastic, I appreciate them on Rav too... Keep in touch matey....

You bring a different often not thought about perspective to any thread..

Your input is priceless...

S

[matt]

I clearly missed something?

[Shawn]

Dont think so Matt, sounds like Alex is pulling the pin. I for one like his posts.. Or am I missing something...:doh:..

S

[Lester]

Alex, I have never found your posts offencesive. Although some of your views are different, I found you put them in a pleasant way.

However I will say there are some other so and so's on here that aught to be silenced with their continual put down of others. The moderation on here is strong and that is good, but I cannot understand why some of the others are not stopped.

This is why I hardly post on here any more.

All the best to you Alex.

[matt]

yeah, I get that Shawn.

What I meant is what's happened on the forum that this is the result?

[Shawn]

Nicely Said Lester, you hearing Alex..

S

[leon]

Alex although i have not been here long, on this site that is, i always found your post had meaning and really never found things you wrote offensive.

The saying goes... I may not agree with what you are saying, but will defend to the death your right to say it.

Good Luck Alex

Cheers Leon

[Meade bloke]

Alex stick around mate, you bring a different view for people to think about, which is no bad thing these days when the media whores are trying to massage the sheep.

Seems general chat is not.

Cheers
Spud

[Shawn]

Dunno Matt Im still looking....

But then I might be looking for something that is no longer there...;) ..

I think I should go now....

:)

[mickoking]

Alex don't go :( you are one of the most interesting people on this forum, on topic or not. I don't know who you may have annoyed but does it matter? we are all human, and to be brutally honest I have probably pissed a few people off too :thumbsup: Stick around mate.

[Shawn]

There you go Alex..

Theres some of your mates right here in this thread, Ok , we flit and flirt between forums, thats a good thing , but one thing for sure ...IIS is the one that we all come back to.. If the Mods have upset you , tell them so.. Its good for the liver , Apparently...:)

[CoombellKid]

Alex,

I replied to your message earlier, but I'll voice my support here too!!!

I love having a read of your posts, and never seen any as offensive

regards,CS

[slice of heaven]

Put it behind you Alex and keep on posting, you've created some great thought provoking discussions on here and added some views unattached to the usual hype. I too enjoy your posts and would sorely miss them..

[iceman]

Alex I feel you're over-reacting. For those that missed it, I deleted a thread about David Hicks (started by Alex) because it was far too political and there were already many inflammatory remarks that broke rules in the TOS (not just by Alex, but in general and by others).

Nothing nasty was said about forum members, and it was nothing against Alex himself, it was just way too off-topic even for general chat.

The thread wasn't going to be productive, it was going to be anti-US government slanging match, and that thread just wasn't needed. So it was deleted.

Alex I hope when you calm down you decide to come back and be your old eccentric self. As Tony said, there are other forums to discuss political views and have that type of slanging match.

If you decide not to come back, I wish you all the best. I look forward to more of your thought-provoking astronomical threads soon :P

[mickoking]

Good onya Alex for your stance against the injustice of a fellow Aussie :thumbsup: Please PM me if you want to engage with this discussion on a different forum.

[Shawn]

Just to Quote Mike here, Ive had my threads moved or deleted , not because it was anything I said, but because of the replies to my dry and somewhat questionable sense of humour.. Hey.. It would be boring place without any unnusual characters... Same old rhetoric ,,ra ra ra..

S

[stephenmcnelley]

Yep, there is nothing intrinsicly wrong with the mature exchange of ideas and communication within communities about the critical issues we must consider or face in our lives on this planet.
Not only that but this is an intellectual community, shame it is not allowed to grow up and be allowed to express itself without the fear of pre-emptive censure. Not a lot of breathing going on in here.

:(

[mill]

Offensive? What is offensive?
Some people are offended very easy and others not.
The same is for forums, if you dont like the thread then dont look further.
It is the same as tv channels , if you dont like it dont watch it , but dont start complaining and keep watching.
I know forum rules are forum rules and i respect them.
Btw Alex, challenging someone's beliefs is nothing to apologize for, it makes people think :)
Hope this text is not against forum rules , delete if it is.

[Shawn]

What your saying Steve , is ease up on moderation right, ?. Yup I think IIS has eased up on Moderation over the last few weeks. Now thats commendable, but across the board continuity is a difficult thing to achieve, each to their own. As a forum gets larger as this one certianly has, It becomes difficult to agree where the ground rules are. Just a hunch....

Thats why a thread that doesnt really fit , is allowed to continue over one that does fit, but is contraversial...

....

[dugnsuz]

You don't offend me mate!
Re Hicks, I really don't feel it's offensive to discuss a situation which is offensive...does that make sense!? Not discussing or being allowed to is also offensive.
I'm sure there are many IIS members who enjoy debating the dinner party taboos - Politics and Religion. I'm sure there are many who don't.
But it seems like heavy handed censorship to pull a thread before it even had the chance to become offensive.
Perhaps more defined posting policies need to be introduced so every member is on the same page from the get go:shrug:
Alex please dont walk.
Cheers
Doug:thumbsup:

[sheeny]

I thought I missed something too. Thanks for explaining the root cause of this Mike!

Alex, I hope you decide to stick around and keep contributing. We are all individuals (just like everyone else!:P ) it's just what makes us unique is more visible in some people than others. I enjoy your posts, so I hope you will reconsider and hang about a bit more!

I have seen some other forums completely disrupted (I am tempted to say destroyed but I baled out before I witnessed that!) by a few radical individuals due to a lack of moderation. It is not an easy task to moderate a forum like this, and of course none of us like being moderated, but I appreciate the fact that we generally have a "civilised" forum here. Yes we need to watch what we say, but at least we are not likely to be offended or to offend. If Mike says it was deleted because it was off topic and breached a few of the rules in the TOS, then fair enough. My impression is Mike is pretty straight down the line.

Some of the more "controversial" threads I admit I tread very warily with. Sometimes a simple comment can get taken way out of context or proportion on a forum like this because in written text we lose the nuances, and intonation of voice that can sometimes mean the difference between a little chuckle and people being at one another's throats. I've been bitten with that before both as a contributor and as a moderator (on another forum).

So I'm hoping you understand, Alex, and are a pretty tolerant sort of guy once you've settled down a bit. It would be a shame to lose you from the forum.

Al.

[iceman]

It was offensive very quickly. I'm sorry if you never got to see it, but it was deleted for a reason. It wasn't pre-emptive censorship or pre-emptive closure. It had already breached several TOS rules.


There is - it's called the TOS.

[matt]

That says it all very nicely, Al.

Especially the bit about other forums being destroyed by allowing a few to go too far, and dominate.

As a moderator I think you need to sometimes make the tough decision to opt for the lesser of all evils.

[Striker]

Well said Al.

I have had plenty of posts/thread deleted over the years....most of which deserved to be deleted....thanks Geoff....lol

Its a hard job for Mike and the mods to keep everyone happy but generaly they do a great job.

Religion and Politics we really dont want to go there.

Mike has had complaints about sport being posted in threads so I could only imagine the complaints against Politics and Religion.

[h0ughy]

OK all take a deep breath, wish the moon gone and go out and spend your time imaging, nothing to see here.............................I agree with striker, his threads did desrve to be deleted:whistle: :lol: , as most of mine.

Thats life as we know it - so lets get out of here and enjoy it. ;)

[sheeny]

:rofl:

Al.

[mick pinner]

during the two years l have been a member here we have had a few " not many " people leave the forum due mainly in their eyes to over moderation via threads being deleted.
l have disagreed strongly to some off these deletions and in other instances agreed wholeheartely because of the depths to which some of them had sunk.
a thread in general chat regarding a social issue be it religion, politics, should be given every chance to run it's course, l think to much is made of someone being offended, just because someone has something to say that you don't like does not make it offensive just an alternate point of view.
in my opinion if you don't like a topic don't participate and move on.
moderation by all means, but let's leave the political correctness to the politicians.

[Argonavis]

if they are offended ... stiff

get back here alex and stop being so damn precious

[wavelandscott]

While I am glad that adults can and do have occassional and resonable exchanges of ideas on a variety of topics...However, this spot is at heart a place for the Australian amateur astronomy community and the hobby of astronomy...and made possible through the unpaid "work" of a few individuals and the posting contributions of the rest of us.

I am not a widely traveled "netizen" but I find the moderation here to "meet my expectations" and generally keep things moving back towards astronomy or things related to those involved in astronomy...it is a tough job and in the main it is done pretty well. It is one of the reasons I come back again and again.

Some may think the TOS are "bland" but I kind of have a soft spot for "vanilla" ice cream...when I crave something "spicier" I know there are other places I can go visit...

Clear Skies and Peace to all...

[Lee]

I agree.

Question - does our post count drop back if a thread we have participated in is killed??? :scared3:

[EzyStyles]

Alex, i don't find your post re Hicks offensive in anyway. You were just voicing out your own opinion and that is what forums are for!. Don't go mate.

[GeoffW1]

Hi Alex,

I did not see your ghastly misdemeanors, but don't go just because someone else had an opinion too and it all got messy. That's the fun.

I have been active in the past with a home DIY forum where all the interesting people were chased off, and now it is nearly moribund from dullness.

I doubt that will happen here, don't you think?

GeoffW1

[EzyStyles]

Totally agree with you Mill.

[dugnsuz]

Point taken - impossible to comment on the original post without seeing it!

My point re TOS was to state the forum policy with regard to overtly political comment as opposed to offensive material.
But that would be censorship wouldn't it;)
My head hurts - I'm sticking to bad astrophotography!!:P
Doug

[avandonk]

I would never take anything personally that anyone else did to limit my expression on a limited forum which this is. It is mainly about astronomy folks.

General topics should be just that, general. We can't have this forum used as a platform for any cause no matter how important unless it directly involves people here.

If you feel strongly about any issue there are other places and remedies.

There are grey areas such as cosmology and belief systems but at least it has relevance to what we are attempting to understand.

This does not mean I will not err in the future far from it. It is up to all of us to try and make this work.

OH NO! I have become a conservative!

Xelasnave it is down to you. Only you can decide what ...

Bert

[Miaplacidus]

Hi Alex,

I've often disagreed with the stuff that you've posted, but never once was I offended by it. And I've always appreciated the humour that informs it. Why get worried if some people just don't get it?

And moderating is a hard juggle. On the whole they do an excellent job here, but you can't expect to agree with every decision they make. (Small price to pay for not having to isolate yourself or set up your own forum.)

Anyway, maybe it was the responses made by others that was offensive??? I don't know, because I tuned out half way through. Nothing I read sounded too heated.

Anyway, cheers,:cheers:

Brian.

[venus]

'free speech' just finished watching a documentary on that.....oh well
mods need something to stop them snoring anyways;)
all the best Alex. Later...

[74tuc]

From readind these posts:

Alex your apology is complete. There seems no point in removing yourself from this community - take a breather and come back "firing on all cylinders"

Jerry.:)

[stephenmcnelley]

Nice to hear everyone being honest with each other. And we can choose to stay or go as we please if the TOS doesn't fit. Some of the best forums i am a part of (6 in all) have matured to the point where self moderation is a member responsibility in act, and we are talking thousands of aussie members for the two i am talking about. It can be done but it takes time and maturity.

[GrahamL]

Was looking forward to catching up sometime alex.. keep in touch the ..interaction of other like minded folk is way bigger than a post deletion on the odd message board .

[74tuc]

Re: 'free speech'

Idon't want freedom of speech. I want freedom AFTER speech.

Jerry.

[fringe_dweller]

what i found offensive is Alex started a thread of an unbelievably sensitive (EDIT: and polarising) nature and was devolving extrordaniraly fast into another boring 'hang 'em high', 'i'm more hardass than you are' 'bring back capitol punishment' 'cut his ..... off' and provide a platform for nasty macho front bar bloodthirsty mob blah blah kneejerk reaction competition, stuff i am frankly suicidely bored of - on a subject that has had more press and discussion than just about anything I can think of in history, just check your letters to the editors in your local rag if you cant get enuff of this topic!?
officially taboo and suppressed things that dont get much media support/coverage like ID ect. are fair game - and like Bert says, things that actually have a connection to what this forum is remotely about, even tenuously :)
i am sorry Alex, but being an ex legal type you would know well know the term 'vexatious litigant'? even i know my rant quota and when i have exceeded it :P

[okiscopey]

Alexander .. what the heck!?!

I haven't been around here long and so far haven't met you or any other poster in person, but I really look forward to the news and views from everyone who contributes - yours included.

It's right for you to say what you think, it's right for the moderators to zap stuff they believe will get out of hand, but I'm not sure it's right for you to leave!

The place won't be quite the same without you.

Please reconsider!

[Ric]

Hi Alex, no offence was taken.
I hope you reconsider and stay, I enjoy your points of view.

Cheers mate

[bloodhound31]

Argonavis I totally agree. My background brings to mind something drilled into me from a very young age.....HARDEN UP POOPSIES! Dry your eyes, wanna hug? My gosh, the human race seems to be devolving into a blubbering bunch of pansies every time someone says boo!

I won't say sorry cos it really gets my goat! If you don't like what someone else thinks and says, then nick off and go cry to someone who cares. An thats not gonna be me.

Opinionated and don't care what anyone thinks of me. Like me or not.

Sheesh! no wonder there are still wars and pointless slaughter. Overblown reactions to trivial crap.

Baz.:mad2:

[fringe_dweller]

:rofl: :scared: :lol: I give in - you win rant of the day!

[bloodhound31]

End of fire mission. Out.

[johnno]

Yes,
This is why I hardly post on here anymore Either.

ALEX,you should feel Honoured to have so much support,

If it was me,
or some of the other "Not so well Known's"
who posted something similar,

We, would have hardly gotten a response at all,

OR,Perhaps a shrug from a moderator.

I used to love being a member of this forum,
Now, I just browse,and no longer post.

WAAAY,WAAAY,too "CLIQUEY" for me.

[TidaLpHasE]

Alex, your post was an opinion or view you held, i didn't agree with your views and replied so with my own.

That's what is being lost in this country at an all time high, the freedom to voice your opinion and debate the pro's and con's of it with others, political correctness has gone mad everyway you turn.

If at a star camp or astro get together, are all topics of conversation related to the stars? or is it a mix of the current dilema's we may face in our lives?

I understand this is an astro forum, but as a community of varied peoples and ideals, interests and views, surely we can raise some of those thoughts in general chat without the "it's a gang up on the U.S. thread" i'm pressing delete?

Alex, your post did not offend me at all, it just provoked a response from me and a point of view that was different to yours, and as Mike said, it was deleted because the U.S. was being bagged, like in my post, and lets be real people, even if you have heard enough of the Hicks case and you gotta run ot and read the local letters to the editor, it is a joke that he is still in a cell, without charges and without the evidence to charge.

Gee next they will be banning santa from kinda as not to upset the minority groups, oh thats right they already have.

.

[styleman333]

Yeah , i agree with what they all say , thats the beauty of living in a democracy , we are all entitled to our beliefs and its interesting to hear views that are different and sit and think about it . I can understand where mikes going , he is right , it is a astronomy forum

Gee i dont know , i always find your posts extremely interesting and as the rest say , never offensive

[OneOfOne]

Sorry to see you go...must have missed something. I wish you well and hope you have a rethink.

As for censorship on this forum, whilst it would be nice to be able to run a forum without the need for moderation there are always people who like to push the envelope some times. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the typed word it is very easy to take something the "wrong way" and offense may be taken by some where none was originally meant. As others have said, at a camp not all conversation is "on topic" either, but the benefit of face to face contact allows the, sometimes subtle, nuances of personal contact to remove offense that may be created had the same conversation been carried out using the forum. Just as two people can read read the same email and one is "put off" by it while the other one can't see anything to get you nickers in a knot over.

I can recall some posts which became rather heated and had declined into a lot of personal name calling and offense...in an astronomy related thread! The culprits were warned and ultimately they appear to have moved on. Without any censorship, we would risk having threads hijacked by such people, creating tension and ill feeling.

I support Mike and the moderators in their task and hope they keep up the good work.

[Dujon]

G'day, Alex.

Before you go walkabout I would ask that you read through all the above posts. Then, over a billy of tea (or something stronger if you're that way inclined), have a think about what's happened. Look up at the stars if clouds permit and listen to the crickets, the possums and the other nocturnal noises. I know you love the bush and the fact that it enables you to collect your thoughts into some form of logical framework. What does one spat on a forum mean in that context? As you full well know the answer is 'nothing'.

Alex, I haven't seen the post you made or any of the replies to it. Maybe you were wrong in starting the thread, maybe you were not; I'm not in a position to comment never mind make judgements.

By your own admission, mate (if you will allow me to use that honorific), you have brought some different ideas to this forum. As you can see from earlier posts many members appreciate that fact; it gets them thinking 'outside the square'. "Them" by the way includes myself.

Please reconsider your decision.

[xelasnave]

This is such a wonderful place one can’t keep away. I came back to see if my apology was still posted. I read the many comments and would like to make a statement. Firstly it does upset me to think I annoy other people as I see such as a failing on my part not theirs. Secondly I have no illusions that for what ever reason I tend to have an “in your face” approach which is not what I expect from myself. I don’t like it in others so perhaps that is why I see it as a major flaw of my character. I can see how others see me in that context and if I was working with the impressions they have to work with could not think any different to the way I suspect they think.
I am concerned that I have generated a view from some that I am critical of the moderators striking my posts and say that is not the case. Certainly the approach taken with the David Hicks post was to focus attention on a problem which the very last post deleted sought to point out that not dealing with the problem was simply one that could be laid at the feet of lawyers not the Government of the USA or Australia.. I went out on a limb to make the point and the limb was cut but I see it that the action by the moderators was the correct one. That was no one else’s fault but mine and it saddens me that I have caused some to blame the moderators. It is not their fault it is mine. The rules of the forum are clear and yet knowing the rules I raised a matter that was highly political (I was however trying to show that the politics was not the problem but the law needed to act faster so feelings of injustice could not remain in our community) the post was confrontational, divisive but above all outside the mission statement of this place. It deserved to go so please everyone see it that way.
The problem is not that of the moderators and they have my support. My only objection to their management is minor in that the rules indicate a warning will issue before action. However the rules are clear and if I had kept within the rules there would have been no problem. I would like a warning for once warned I can realize that I am being carried away with the joy of discussing something.
It is my fault as I clearly was pushing my luck by deliberately breaking the rules.
I am not withdrawing for reasons other than I must recognize I am unable to help myself determine what is offensive and what is not and how my breaking the rules is different to someone else breaking the rules. But I say talking about foot ball may not be astronomy related but is fair general chat whereas presenting matters where our leaders could do it better is not. It is my problem that I don’t see the difference..Its all just chat to me.
I said once that if you hit me in the head with a brick I am more concerned about what problems caused you to do so than my injury and as strange as that must seem to many that are the way I approach life. I care too much but it comes over that I don’t care at all.
I support the moderators and I support the rules but the reality for me is I can not help but ignore them. This is a personal problem not one the moderators need be concerned with and believe me, looking at my reaction to withdraw probably looks like a dummy spit and part of it could be, I ask myself that but cant get a straight answer. I don’t trust other people but I don’t trust myself to face truths either. But my main concern was when I thought it was not finally a dummy spit, even if that could be linked.. My intention not to upset people and I realize I do… that was the reality I was seeking to address.
So it upsets me to see people thinking the moderators acted unfairly... I say they did not I was to blame and I ask all that have offered their support to remember that... anything else is a falsehood.
People say if you have upset people so what but no one needs to be upset by someone breaking the rules.
AND working on the basis that part of my motivation was indeed a dummy spit and being a big baby I will start over , I can learn from my mistakes I know what my problem is it upset me that no matter how hard I work on being better I fall down. That’s why I wanted to hide...but that is not being a man...
So please take it after the dust has settled what I bring upon myself lays at my feet.
If I post in the future and I step over the line I would ask you to tell me as your feelings are very important to me...not what you think of me and my approach to life but how my statements may upset you.
On the positive one learns from their mistakes so if anyone thinks I have a self opinion that I know everything remember it is because I believe I have made more mistakes than the rest of you. I don’t mean to sound like I know everything please see it as a matter that I believe that I speak the truth and am honest in delivering my feelings to you I would not say something if I thought it was not true so please understand I am not saying I am right just that I believe in what I am saying.
I thank you all for helping me grow up:thumbsup: .
AND Mike overreaction can not be viewed from the outside because one can not account for what that person is reacting to … most of my over reaction was to myself not the moderation which again I support.. But I accept your observation that I have over reacted.
If you want to know how I really feel do not hesitate to ask but I don’t think I can be more open with any of you.
Having logged in I see I have messages but I will post this first.
alex

[Outbackmanyep]

Alex.....we live in a democratic society......you're allowed to voice your opinions......thats why our relatives and ancestors fought 2 world wars, to earn this freedom.....i personally didnt read the thread you posted but from what i gather from what others have said you arent alone in what you've said.....
The world is too small and life is too short to walk away from people who know you and people that listen to your posts......

You do what you want to do.....but i reckon everyone here would welcome you back WHEN you post again....
Cheers! :thumbsup:

[ving]

hi alex :)
wb :)

[jjjnettie]

:hi: Alex,
I'm happy you're staying.:)

[huckabuck]

atta boy alex

[TidaLpHasE]

:)Alex, i see that you are an emotional type of person, this is a good thing, it seperates the living from the mundane as i see it.

I see some threads in clear breach of the rules, yet as they are posted by certain people they stay without even a warning, it's the double standards of the forum moderation that has been the problem here for some time.

Your post was over the top in your presentation of your views, but that could have been explained and discussed in the thread as it went on, i just don't see it as the big deal it has been made out to be.

I wish you could see the support you have and dont be so hard on yourself.

As an example, i placed a thread in the for sale forum, and had it hijacked from another member quoteing to me the forum rules when in breach of them himself by psting in my thread.

There was no moderation and it was up to me to re-quote the forum rules to him regarding posting in peoples for sale threads.

And yet just the other day i saw in another for sale thread, a moderator post in the thread warning to stick by the rules and keep the thread on topic, as i say it's the double standards that make it unfair that posts are picked and choosed if deleted or not.

So i suppose that has just about convinced me.

[toetoe]

It's over and done with now. Glad your staying with us Alex.

[matt]

Welcome back, Alex:thumbsup:

Glad you've had a re-think and decided to stay.

This human zoo needs all of its creatures, as many and varied as they are:)

[xelasnave]

Everyone has good and bad days but the secret is to look to the positive:) ..what does it matter if the moderation is not ridgid :D ... may look like double standards but lets see it as flexible in the best possible way:) :) :) . If we see only good our expectation will deliver good if we see only bad thats what will be in front of us.
I would rather moderation be critised that it misses a lot rather than it scrapes too much. Lets be a team and all work to achieve the goal of Iceinspace being the best astronomy forum in the world:thumbsup: . There are not many people here really so its important we all pull together.
I have a new dummy so I am happy:lol: :lol: :lol: .
We have seen how some threads can go down hill but lets look at all the threads that take us to places we have never been.
I think already that folk understand their are many views on many things I recon it is great that here we all get on so well:) .
My only problem is I cant think of anything to talk about today and I am actually working on something that well I hate to admit to it but sortta work:P ;) :D .
Lets be happy I am its easy really. AND if there are any political issues I will contact those responsible direct and tell them what should be done:whistle: ..
alex:) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[TidaLpHasE]

:PGee Alex that post has summed up everything in question and made so much sense, and again proves without the input of others, the value you are as a member.

It has made me think of the previous posts i typed:doh:

[styleman333]

Welcome back alex !
Good to see ya mate ................... now lets discuss the war in Iraq and its consequences .

Lol nah just jokin

[astro_nutt]

Hi Alex,
Glad you're still with us...
Your last post has some very powerful messages for all of us...but hey!..we can all feel strongly about a particular subject at some time or another!
But that's what makes us all diffrent...and you can see that not everyone felt offended.
Cheers!

[Ric]

Hi Alex, good to see you have returned.
Healthy debate in all areas is good for the mind and opinions are what make us induvidual and unique.
I think that we all should remember that it is the love of amateur astronomy and all things pertaining to it that brings us here and ultimately keeps us here.

Cheers

[Dennis]

At school, I had many fights as a kid. I cannot remember any of them. Why? Well, soon after each fight, we shook hands and made up. The scrapes and bloody noses are long forgotten. However, what I do seem to remember, are the keyboard fights, those battles fought via the written word; on forums, in e-mail, or on paper. It seems so much more difficult to shake hands and make up after word fights. Truly the pen is mightier than the sword. The wounds run deeper, take longer to heal and burden us in our future exchanges.

Someone “owns” this forum and has invested a lot of time, energy, money, blood, sweat and tears in this on-line community. A bunch of people also help moderate this forum and as far as I know, do it in their own time, are unpaid and to be honest, do a marvellous job, given the diversity of its members and the colossal variety of subject matter discussed. I suspect this is hard work and I wouldn’t be too surprised if some of these folks might even lose some sleep when confronted with an issue that requires them to intrude into a post. For their efforts in operating and steering this IIS ark – I thank them.

Very rarely are these folks the recipients of even a little praise – bless their hearts; more often, they appear to be blamed when something doesn’t go our way.

The main topic here is astronomy; not religion, sex, drugs, politics or rock and roll. If I want politics or religion I’ll go and join a forum that specialises in the stuff. If I want astronomy, I’ll dwell here a while longer.

I’m a bit thick at times so in my thickness, all alone with my keyboard, I’ll write, and post something that to me, smells as sweet as roses and wouldn’t hurt a fly. I’ll try to craft my words so they just cannot be misunderstood, and then I’ll hit the “Post” button.

Lo and behold, when those words are received, by 100’s of different eyes and ears, in unbounded states of receptivity, they will be filtered and interpreted in ways I could never have imagined. Those words, once released, will also reveal much about me; how I think and feel; my prejudices, both conscious and unconscious. Well, if I’m that fallible, and took so much care and time word smithing my post, how can I expect a 3rd party who doesn’t know me from a bar of soap to wholly understand what I intended, when they just take a moderators helicopter fly-over my words?

I have learned to live with being wrong or being misunderstood and my older, wiser self endeavours to look into my own heart when I am involved in a conflict. What part did I play? In the end, if I find that I was not lacking, I can still find comfort in that knowledge and don’t really need the world to validate me. Yes, maybe it would be nice, but is it really necessary? Is my ego really that important?

So, I’ll dust myself off, shake hands and move on, till the next time when surprise, surprise, it gets easier to cope because I’m thinking more clearly and not carrying the baggage and wounds of battles past. Well, mostly anyway. I still stuff up, badly at times, so thanks for accommodating one tiny ego and accepting me, warts and all, in this wonderful community.

Well, I got this far so whilst I’m here, I would like to say this place rocks. We have so much more in common than where we differ; Mike and the mods make it a nice place to hang out and above all, so does everyone else in whatever way they contribute.

By the way, isn’t it weird that all these skirmishes involve only us blokes? :shrug: Is it genetic? :whistle:

Cheers

Dennis

[CoombellKid]

You could just dont bother reading if that's how you feel Dennis, I mean
the forum is called....

"General Chat General topics not covered by the other IceInSpace astronomy forums."

So I dont think you are fully right there, perhaps the general chat forum should be
remove or relabeled. Personally I find it a great place to talk about different things
that my fellow astronomers like to talk about.

regards,CS

[Dennis]

Thanks Rob - that's just what I do, I skim and skip those posts.

Cheers

Dennis

[JethroB76]

I agree with you there Rob, general chat of various types do not seem welcome in the General Chat forum. Did I read it right, that Mike had received complaints about sport being discussed in GC? How odd..:screwy:
If thats the case, and political debate is also not welcome it might be best if it was removed or modified

[iceman]

Let's not go overboard.

1 person complained about sport, once. It was an off-the-hand comment that a few people took issue with. It was over and done with.

General chat is for general chat, about astronomy and non-astronomy related topics except what is clearly labelled in the TOS.

It's not that hard to understand or follow, so no need to remove or change general chat. The general chat area is great for people to get to know each other.

[ving]

the problem, as anyone in marketing will tell you Mike is that people dont read :shrug:

signs, memos and especially COUs and other such agreements. who here actually read the blurb they were given when say signing up to hotmail? i doubt anyone did. click on "i agree" and get on with it... i think we have all become lazy :lol:.

maybe if poeple were tested on the given COU of any situation before they were alowed to enter :lol:

what can you do huh? :shrug:

big thumbs up to all mods. they do the job that none of us want to do. :)

[JethroB76]

Fair enough, I obviously missed that thread, I was just a bit shocked when I read about it earlier in this thread.
Might go read this TOS thing :lol:

[sheeny]

Good on you Alex!

Thank you Mike!

Thank you ball boys...;) :)

Al.

[DaveR]

Really pleased to see you come back Alex.
I also add my thanks to the moderators - despite the odd hiccough which will happen with a large group of intelligent people given a forum like this, this place is still great. I love coming here at the end of the day and reading about interesting things!:)

[Striker]

Nice to hear Alex.

Nobody likes it when someone leaves.

I'm glad we have sorted all this out.

[Geoff45]

If someone expresses a view that people find offensive (ie conflicts with their comfort zone) they can
1 Close their minds to an alternative view.
2. Refute it with appropriate arguments.
3. Be convinced and adopt the new view.

Unfortunately, most people choose 1.

[Dennis]

A view, hmm. Where feasible and meaningful, I might choose to embrace it as one more view, one of many, and maybe honour it as such? When I stand on a mountain top, with an all round 360° view, depending on my vantage point, I can view trees and paddocks, roads and rivers, hills and valleys, towns and open spaces etc, all different, but valid views from a particular position I might take at the time.

Alter my position – change the view. It doesn’t necessarily mean that the other views are no longer true or valid.

Cheers

Dennis

[mill]

Ohhh noooo!!!! Please don't call me intelligent :lol: (Just joking.) In my eyes everyone is intelligent in their own way.
And welcome back Alex. Hope to see more challenging posts from you.:welcome: back.

[stephenmcnelley]

Nice to not lose you from the am. astro community Alex. Even if our communications are involuntarily regulated here.

I value the iis potential, but unfortunately we can not speak freely here on non- astro topics, that is a matter of choice.

If anyone would like to discuss non-astro things while being a part of the am. astro community, here is a link, supplied democraticly and fairly and not for the purpose of undermining anyone:)

http://southcelestialpole.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=2715.0;topicseen


steve

[Geoff45]

Yes but some views are crap. The view that the earth is flat is not valid, so we have to be able to separate the crap from valid alternatives. This is where we use our our ability to think and don't get mired in a wishy-washy "everyone is entitled to their point of view". I think I'm heading down Alex's path here. Help!
Geoff

[matt]

I think I know where you're coming from, Geoff.;)

[Dennis]

Which is why I wrote:



Feasible and meaningful imply thinking rather than blind acceptance, and might implies the use of judgment as opposed to wishy washy acceptance.

Cheers

Dennis

[h0ughy]

Look we will settle things here:

1. Make Ving a Moderator:D
2. Make Ballaratdragons a moderator:D
3. Make Dennis a DemiGod, us grasshoppers need to look up too
4. Make me an observatory
5. Fill the dams with water, settle the dust and calm the atmosphere and move the moon.

now I don't ask much.........about time this thread died a natural death, much like most of my comet and deepskyshots.:P

lets get back to meaningless activities like counting how many jupiter and saturn threads mike has started............................ ................... :whistle:

oh and by the way, would any of the above occur??????????????:lol:

[seeker372011]

I support 1 above

oh and most of 5..not sure if i want the moon to move any more than it is already

and welcome back alex its always nice to have people who really think outside the square as the management consultants say

and lets all get back to normal I'm worn out from just catching up on this thread

[spacezebra]

Interesting isnt it Dennis.:whistle:

Welcome back Alex.

Cheers Petra




By the way, isn’t it weird that all these skirmishes involve only us blokes? :shrug: Is it genetic? :whistle:

Cheers

Dennis[/quote]

[astroron]

The main reason that its only the male of the species is involved with this topic ,is the females are to busy with the cleaning and washing up and looking after the children.:lol: :lol:

[jjjnettie]

Ron!
Behave yerself.

[netwolf]

Alex, for what its worth your posts always intrigue me and make me think, I try not to involve myself with gray areas but i admire people who push the envelope. The increase in chaos increases the potential for order. To much order has the reverse effect, read that in some fantasy fiction novel when i was a kid. In simpler terms we need to shake the tree now and then to see what falls out. It might be an adam's/Newtons apple that changes the world of science. The disorder can bring about an increase in the community spirit to bring an individual back into the fold. Thats worth it. Everyone here is important and needed. The strength of a wheel comes from its many directional spokes. It would not survive on one.

Regards
Fahim

[gaa_ian]

Welcome Back Alex, I admire your ability for self Analysis !
While your post are sometimes "Off Beat" you have one great quality that our world needs more of, that is the ability to ask the question "Why".
Why ? am I being served up this in information, why do "They" want me to feel, think, act a certain way. It is a basic scientific principle to ask this important question & it is the beginning of the road to understanding.
Good onya mate & again, Welcome back !

[xelasnave]

Thank you all for your understanding support recognition of an individual’s right to be different.
I would like to reply to each post here personally as each post caused many many thought to run through my head.
For those who are muttering why did the mongrel come back I still say I am sorry to have upset you and leave you with this thought ( a quote from I think Sir Francis Bacon please correct me if that is wrong) but it goes like this.
On taking revenge a man is but equal with his enemy but on passing it over he is far superior for it is a Princes part to pardon..
and

one I use to be at peace with myself and others..

Forgive us our trespasses and those who trespass against us.... has more to it than walking on someone’s land

So let’s start the new day with hope and enthusiasm put all behind us and not forget the start of this thread was an apology to real people who have been hurt it was not supposed to be about me... I was trying to leave by the back door.
Lets move on and thank whoever we each have the need to thank and be at peace with ourselves and the world.
Alex

[iceman]

I think everyone has had their say, got things off their chest, whatever the case may be.



A good note to end this thread on.