The cycling future

[MattT]

I ride a bicycle to work and back home in Melbourne, roughly 40kms a day.
Have been doing this since 1999 and have seen a few changes in that time...more people riding, a good thing, and a huge increase in the amount of cars on the road....a bad thing.
Train travel is slow and crowded...not my thing, specially when cycling is free and quicker.
I found this interview intersting from a few points of view.
Firstly, to my way of thinking, the E-bike is the local transport future...maybe along with small electric cars.
It’s a long interview with Stephen Hodge, who sold me my first decent bike at Spokesman cycles in Canberra in the early 1980’s.
I ride a normal bike, not an E-bike.
Hope you enjoy.

https://youtu.be/UWIutLISUgw

[JeniSkunk]

Unfortunately e-bikes in Australia are crippled by by government standards which actively prevent the effective use of e-bikes. Too low a maximum electric motor capability for battery only use, and too slow a maximum speed for battery assisted.
What e-bikes that are permitted to be sold here do not come close to the capabilities of what's available in Japan.
As for braving the traffic, the hostility of motorists toward cyclists, combined with the lack of bikeways and bike lanes that go to usable destinations, it really feels like cyclists are not acceptable road users.
I don't know what the solve is to fix that.

[GrahamL]

I see an attitude thing most days in that cycleways and theres lots where i live are empty ,, the roads beside are well full of lycra most of the time ,, Why ?

[AndrewJ]

Listening to a lot of talkback on many radio stations, a lot of people believe that it is time bikes should pay rego and insurance, and have identification of some sort, like everyone else, if they want to have unfettered access to the roads.
Too many ( but not all ) cyclists pay lip service to the road rules at present, and that annoys people, as the perpetrators cannot be identified.

Andrew

[Ausrock]

I was constantly riding a bike from around 6 years old until well after I obtained my drivers licence.....'56 - late '60's and didn't sell my last bike until around 12 years ago. We rode with some very specific "rules" ..........have respect for motor vehicles, of any sort. Clearly use hand signals to indicate your intentions, DON'T ride two abreast and have an understanding of basic road rules.......a "STOP" sign means just that, same with traffic lights, etc., etc.

With a tad over 50 years of driving cars, in more recent years, I've gradually come to understand the emergence of the angst between the cycling fraternity and motorists, I have honestly lost count of the instances of cyclists, regardless of whether they're part of the lycra brigade or general people riding to and from work, that appear to believe that they are beyond, not only the rules of the road, but beyond being expected to have any degree of either common sense or respect for other road users regardless of what mode of transport they are using. For too many, the above mentioned Stop signs, traffic lights, etc., are nothing more than an inconvenience to be ignored, there seems to be a total lack of any thought of self-preservation.

AndrewJ nailed it, it is beyond time that laws were changed to ensure that anyone who used a "wheeled" means of transport was able to be made accountable for their actions.

Unfortunately, as an ex cyclist, I have to say that a large group of the current vocal generation appear to have a philosophy of "being always wronged but never wrong.

[The_bluester]

We are just about to get an E bike for my wife. I will put the counter argument that I think they have got the specs about right given what Chris posted above me. Many (Certainly not all and almost certainly not even the majority) of cyclists ride in a way that seems to give no thought at all to their own safety, let alone anyone elses. Imagine giving these people an extra KW or two to play with and assistance that would let them ride an E bike at 60KMH. If they can, they will!


What I saw when I used to commute in to the city all day was probably 95% of cyclists doing the right thing, 3% that you were just glad they were on a bike not driving a car as it limited the damage they could do to others and 2% that were just death on wheels. In that last case, I was literally 100M away from someone who ignored a red light and cycled through an intersection at full pace, only to be knocked down by some poor sap traveling through a green light, the bike would have just appeared from between the lines of stopped cars right in front of them. I never heard the actual outcome of that one. The cyclist could perhaps be glad there was an ambo stopped there!

[multiweb]

:2thumbs:

[glend]

My view is to separate bike and motorised traffic wherever possible. I have ridden bikes in Holland and where it is a big part of the culture there are few problems, but they also have a network of bike paths that are bike only.
I rode 40km a day during my uni days in Canada and never had any problems co-existing with vehicle traffic, but times have changed. The resentment felt by folks stuck in traffic has a lot to do with the problems.
These days I no longer live in a city, so I get to ride without anxiety, other that the damn bagpipes swooping me.

[RB]

Is this in the highlands of Scotland Glen{pun}?

:lol:

[Wavytone]

Depends where you live too - if it’s flat bikes are fine, but here it’s too hilly for bikes to be a practical solution.

On weekends we do have pelotons of middle-aged blokes in tight Lycra pretending they’re in the Tour de France, but they’re bonkers IMHO.

[The_bluester]

It is interesting that this came up now, they were talking on the radio this morning about a push to reconsider mandatory helmets and the things some cycling advocates had to say I thought were concerning.

Firstly the rep of the cycling body misquoting or at least misunderstanding OH&S methodology. Quoting that 80% of cycling accidents are the fault of the driver of a car (Cant comment on that figure, so I wont) and talking about the "Hierarchy of controls" starting, as you should, at the top, with "Elimination" saying that what you need to do is to stop cars hitting bikes (You do always start with elimination if it is possible and practicable)

I work in an OH&S heavy industry. The HAZARD is falling off your bike (Whatever the cause of falling off may be) The risk is how likely that is to happen, and on top of that you have to look at the potential consequences of the hazard coming to pass (Catastrophic)

"Elimination" of the hazard is entirely possible, don't ride a bike, but obviously not practicable. I could go on and on down the hierarchy of controls but in the end, if you are going to ride a bike the hazard of falling off is there and the least effective form of control comes in to play, PPE (Wear a helmet)

The other one was a cyclist who came on and more or less advocated that helmets should be voluntary for adults (Who obviously know not to fall of their bikes and of they do, not to hit their head!) and that responsibility should be put on to car drivers, anyone but the cyclist themselves! She actually did say that riders should not be responsible for their own safety when it comes to being around cars, more than once!

I think both of them put pretty good arguments forward for the case of helmets remaining mandatory.

[multiweb]

They're still exercising and fit bonkers. :lol:

[AndrewJ]

I am going to channel Alex :-)
All pushbikes will need to have a spaceframe rollbar system
such that if you fall, you are encased in a protective structure.
( Similar to what they want for quad bikes )

On top of that, all cyclists must wear clothing that incorporates air bags.
ie https://hovding.com/ is a start

Its only a matter of cost, and the govt doesnt care re that, as long as its the user that pays. ( And if they make the fines > cost, people will use em :-) )


Andrew

[FlashDrive]

I purchased an Electric Bike about 7 months ago.
36Volts / 16Ah Battery .... can go 80klms on 1 charge.

Top Speed .... 25klms / Hr

3 x different power ratings . Low / Medium / High
Disc Brake Front / Multi Geared Rear Wheel.

Comes with all necessary accessories ... / F & R Lights / Both Mudguards / Shock Obsorbers F and Rear / Rear Carry Rack / Tool Kit / Bike Stand .

Can ' fold ' in half and take in the Car Boot

Brand ...LEITNER ( German ) reviews here ........ http://www.leitner.com.au/reviews/

Up steep hills no problems ... I quite like it.
I always use concrete bike-ways ....sometime on Road Way ' if ' I have to.

Shipped mine from Melbourne. http://www.leitner.com.au/electric-folding-bike-dual-suspension-supert-leitner-html.html

Col....

[Wavytone]

Bikes should have roll bars, side impact protection, seatbelts (stop you going over the handlebars) and airbags for protection from frontal collisions.

Riders should be wearing full body armour.

[FlashDrive]

Sounds like a new MAD MAX Movie :lol:

[Ausrock]

I wish those first two percentages could be applied around here, unfortunately, I'd probably change them to 60% and 37%.

[The_bluester]

All that said, we are still looking in to an E bike for my wife, just waiting on the local bike shop who was getting a new brand in to store soon so we can test ride a few different ones.

The ones he had in there all had Chinese motors, but he was looking at getting a couple of Trek bikes in (Bosch motors and batteries)

I cant recall the Chinese brand he had in there, but like the Trek it had a crankset mounted motor which is my preference, aside anything else if you come to a really steep hill you can use the gears on the bike and multiply the assist torque available as well as your own effort. The Chinese one I had a really brief ride of and on full assist it was really punchy, a bit of a shock for a first time E rider, but it still makes sense to me to be able to give the motor an easy run at hills.

My gripe about all E bikes I have seen so far, why no regenerative braking (Even on the hub motor ones) so if you have a nice coast downhill you could use generator drag to control your speed and extend the range?

[FlashDrive]

Good Point .... extend Battery Charge and Battery Life.

[AndyG]

On a few trips to Taiwan, I noticed an excessive amount of moped/motor scooter use. I asked about this, and it boils down to something similar: A moped rider in Taiwan is completely absolved from all blame (in legislation), in the event of a moped+car accident. Under no circumstances can a moped rider be penalised in such an altercation. Thus leaving the car driver to be "taken for a ride". I guess this is Nirvana for the woman on radio you mentioned.

[The_bluester]

It was the closest I have come to calling in on the radio to have a crack back that her cycling safety is just as much up to the her as to the unfortunate motorist she rides out in front of.

Wonder if she expects cars to just avoid her no matter what idiocy she gets up to as a pedestrian too.

[raymo]

I'm not surprised that no E -bikes offer regenerative braking; they are
probably trying to keep the price down to a level that less affluent
pensioners can afford.[I assume that they are a large proportion of their
customers]. I am surprised though that it is not offered as an optional extra.
If you live in a flattish area, and do mostly short trips, you would gain very little for your money if it was a standard fitment.
raymo

[AndyG]

Do not be upset good Sir. Darwinism is a thing. Let us pay respects in advance, to the poor sod who will play their part in removing her from society. Once moved on, by virtue of her own wishes, she can offer no further complication to us normal people :rolleyes:

[The_bluester]

I am not surprised in the lower end bikes around a couple of grand, but it is not there on $10K models either. Not exactly a deal breaker, but they are touted for the ease they make of hills among other things, and if that is a selling point (Meaning you want them for going up hills) then you would presumably be coming down them too.

[raymo]

Talking about coming down hills too, brought an amusing memory back to me.
Its not a joke. This lady I knew many years ago[and yes, she was Irish] told
me one day that it was uphill all the way from Pt. Hedland to Broome[about
600kms]. When I said that was impossible, because by the time you got there, even at a gradient of 1% you would be at an altitude of 6000 metres,
she stuck to her guns and said that she always without fail got better fuel
consumption when going from Broome to Hedland, so it had to be downhill
in that direction. She would not admit that she was wrong even when I pointed out that the overwhelmingly prevailing wind was East to West,
which was why she used more fuel in one direction than the other. To cap
it off we were in Broome at the time, and when I said that we didn't seem to be at 6000 metres, she just snorted and went off in a huff.
raymo

[sharpiel]

Yep...safely in a car...

[AndyG]

Nice one :P

Has anyone here ever gotten a speeding ticket on a bicycle before? A mate of mine was done a few years back pulling 70 in a 60 zone (downhill of course). This was in the dead of night, all alone... they were just waiting at the bottom of the hill. You think they'd let him off just for effort :(

[inline_online]

I used to try for speeding tickets in my late teens, early twenties on my MTB.
Managed 88 km/hr down a big hill in Doubleview, Perth. No cops though which was a shame.
Managed 75 km/hr down a diff hill on my old inline skates. 2am, drunk and trying to get to 80 on the skates:shrug:
Good times!!

[astroron]

Yep that's why it costs Billions of Dollars a year in medical bills to both drivers and governments with the road toll as it is.
All the talk about cyclists is just BS. Most of the time it is just impatient motorist who resent anyone who would delay their right to proceed to their destination unimpeded.
Sure there are the rogue elements in the cycling fraternity but non more than in the motoring public,hence again see the road toll and cost there of.
BTW most bicycle riders have a registered vehicle,so should Know the rules of the road.
By using their bikes they are saving wear and tear on the roads.
Also when should you start registering a bicycle?
When your child gets their first bike?
Don't forget the "P" Plates.
The moral of the story is be more aware and tolerant of other road
users, whether they ride a bike ,scooter or drive a car, you will surely
have a happier and safer day.:):):)
Cheers:thumbsup:

[Kunama]

That's very Flash, Flash :thumbsup: Do you know if the red ones are actually faster:question:
I am thinking of a pair of these hanging of the back of the AutoTrail :question:

[N1]

+1

[FlashDrive]

I reckon they do....but that's just all in the mind ;) red is for ' rocket ' :P

Col...

[anthony2302749]

+2

[MattT]

+3 well said Ron.

[Ausrock]

You forgot the word "respectful", a word which encompasses both ourselves and others.

Unfortunately, this is a discussion that could go on and on and on because we all have differing perspectives on the issue and something I didn't make clear was that my opinions are based on encounters with "near/inner city" cyclists in inner city Newcastle.

Local councils worked to transfer a former coal rail corridor into a shared (walking/cycling) path which stretches for quite some kilometres, a fantastic idea.......the Fernleigh Track. The number of issues "walkers" have had with cyclists, the number of issues motorists have had with cyclists ignoring the one set of stop signs near to the beginning of the track is beyond belief.

Regardless of anything else, it all comes down to respect and
common sense, something which appears to be less common these days.

[AstralTraveller]

Yep, I've been on WHS committees since forever and you're right; you can have all the controls you like but still wear your PPE. If had done that 37 years ago I'd be one tooth richer (at least I didn't wind up one head poorer).


I'm also pretty annoyed at some of the 'representatives' of interest groups: 'their' members can never be wrong, or even have to use their brain. I heard a representative of the Pedestrian Council of Australia (or some such name) some years ago on the radio. This self appointed representative of all of us able to walk on our hind legs wanted bikes to only go at walking pace on a shared bike-path and to give way to pedestrians at all times. No co-operation, no sharing, just naked entitlement. Fortunately, in my experience people in the real world are far more reasonable.









Shared walking/cycling path are probably a necessary evil but they are less than ideal. The truth is that any time there is a great difference in speed between different form of transport (bike/car or pedestrian/bike) harmonising them is difficult.



I used to ride the 12km from Wollongong to the Thirroul baths and back along the coast path every morning. Weekdays and most weekends were fine. Everyone was a regular and knew the scene. I remember one woman used to power walk while reading a book but she was no problem. She stayed to the far left of the path and didn't change speed or direction - easy to avoid. However, when more people were around it started getting harder to stay safe. During school holidays it was much, much safer to be on the road, in fact it would have been safer in a shark tank. People stopping and changing direct without looking, unsupervised toddlers, dogs off leash, frisbees at head height etc etc. I suppose the problem was more one of ignorance than respect (though that was also some people's problem) but, whatever the reason, it didn't work.


I find that, when I'm a cyclist, I need to bend a few of the rules for convenience, or even safety but never in a way that affects others adversely. For instance, it's easier not to come to a complete stop at 'Stop' signs. I will slow to walking pace and check that the way is clear before proceeding but if I can avoid putting my feet on the ground I will. I would never fly through an intersection without looking - I know the power balance between a car and a bike. Similarly, I don't ride on footpaths except for one location where playing with the cars it just too dangerous for me and frustrating for them. At that spot I ride slowly for about 50m on the footpath.



This thread has reminded me that I should get back on the bike. I've ridden, on and off, for 50 years now so I suppose I should start on the next 50.