Lifepo4 battery

[casstony]

I'm considering buying a larger capacity lifepo4 battery such as this 60Ah: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-60AH-50AH-Lithium-Battery-w-LCD-display-camp-caravan-Power-Station-Bank/352431579395

I like that it has built in management and charge indicator. Does anyone have better value suggestions in lifepo4?

[Zuts]

Hi, That seems like a really good price. I have a LiFePo4 30 Ah battery which cost me $400 last year.

http://www.batteriesdirect.com.au/shop/search/1064/fusion-lithium---deepcycle.html

Maybe I got ripped off, but the battery in your link seems a very very good price for what you are getting? It's also extremely light as my 30 ah weighs 3.3kg, while that is twice the capacity but still only 4.4 kg.

Cheers
Paul

[casstony]

I think the weight figure is wrong Paul. They're selling a 40Ah version which is listed as weighing 5kg while the 60Ah is 4.4 kg - figures swapped around perhaps.

[Atmos]

The price of these batteries has nearly halved in the last 18 months. When I first looked at a 200AH it was hard to find them under the $5,000 mark but now you can get them for as low as $2,200!
The 200AH weighed a measly 25kg which is a far cry from the 75kg my lead acid weighs!

[casstony]

I've purchased the 60Ah battery. They had 'make an offer' and accepted my offer of 450, then there's a 5% off code (p5off) so it was $427.50 in the end.

[OffGrid]

A cautionary note.
One aught to be very careful on your lithium battery research and purchases.
My understanding is that some cannot or should not be charged with smart or pulse type battery chargers.
I am not sure then what you charge them with if most quality set and forget smart chargers on the general retail market are excluded.
I do know though that balanced cell charging and discharging within the lithium batteries is critical. This is usually done with a BMS ( Battery Management System ) either between each cell and or wholisticly within the battery.
The Fusion brand is mentioned in a most recent link on the thread yet the site says that they cannot be charged as I have mentioned in my 2nd sentence above.
Yet in the Fusion site http://www.fusionagmbatteries.com.au/tabid/323/cid/8/Products/LithiumIonPolymer.aspx says, Quote ‘Fusion Lithium Batteries are also one of the only Lithium Batteries that can be charged using normal 12V car chargers/ lead-acid battery chargers / alternators’ Unquote.

I am just in the process of Offgriding an old pop up camper. As I already have a usable 40Ah AGM battery, when it finally fades or lets the smoke out, a Fusion style Lithium will be its replacement so long as I do not have to also replace the Ctek D250SA DC-DC solar charging system.

I trust this helps rather than hinders or misleads.

[casstony]

I guess you never really know what you're getting Steve, but the battery I purchased has a 3 year warranty and comes with a charger, from a long time, high rated seller so it should be ok. The ad also says it has a built in management system.

[casstony]

Update: the seller tells me linked battery above is not lifepo4 even though it says lifepo4 in the picture. It will be going back if they've already shipped it.

[Steffen]

Wow, what a reveal. It would actually mesh with another piece of information found in the ad:

Cell specifications: 3.7V 18650 2600mAh cell.

So, it's likely an array of 18650 batteries. I would also question whether the 60Ah capacity is given at cell voltage (like all too common with 18650 based powerbanks) or at 12V. This may be a 220Wh battery, or 18Ah at 12V.

[netwolf]

Ah Tony i was hopping it was a real deal. Here is one i found but tripple the price.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LiFePO4-Battery-12-8V-60Ah-Smart-BAT512060410-/232970389129

[Zuts]

That's bad luck, bit it did seem rather cheap....

As far as charging is concerned I got one of these https://no.co/g3500

Cheers
Paul

[jamespierce]

Cheap and lithium don't belong in the same sentence unfortunately. I have a fair bit of experience between building a couple of long range off grid 4wds, astronomy and racing 1/10th scale RC cars.


For astronomy we have had great success with the very small, and very expensive 22aH Tracer Power packs. They come with chargers for 240v and 12v and a wide range of connectors possible. Same group make large LiFe cells.


If I was starting from scratch with another 4wd project I'd probably go Lithum, but as other have said the whole system needs to be planned for it. AGM batteries are a good compromise of capacity / fast recharge and weight for most applications.

[netwolf]

James is this the one you mean? Tracer 22ah?

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Tracer-12V-22Ah-Lithium-Polymer-Battery-Pack/173296801938?epid=1060393470&hash=item28594b5892:g:LBYAAOSw-olaMSsb:rk:1:pf:0

[jamespierce]

Yes - You can get them locally direct from the importer. Trying to airship high capacity LiPo internationally is very difficult.

[Zuts]

I may be wrong, but I thought LiFeP04 was a newer technology than LiPo.

Cheers
Paul

[jamespierce]

Different technology.

LiPo = Very light, small and ~300-400 useful charge cycles. RC Cars - Drones - Laptops - Phones - Cameras etc etc.


LiFe = Lighter than Pb batteries and ~3000 useful cycles - more suited to fixed applications.

[pmrid]

I know that LiFePo batteries are all very sexy and so forth but really, I fail to see the equivalence between one of those (at $499) and 6 x 38AH Aldi Deep Cycle at $79 each. In other words, for the same money, you can parallel 6x 38AH for 228AH or nearly quadruple the capacity. OK I'm a cheapskate. I accept that. But even so ...

Peter

[Merlin66]

Peter,
Hmmmm
I feel the same about my two 20Ah gel cell batteries (golf buggy type) which are now over ten year old and still performing 100%.
A good triple stage charger helps!

[jamespierce]

I generally agree - Once you get past the price Lithum has a few key advantages though. Light, small and able to charge and discharge quickly and deeply. It does however require more sophisticated charging and care than a typical AGM or Gel type of cell. You wouldn't want a mobile phone with a lead battery.

[Tasastro]

Never rely on the pictures when using Ebay - always look carefully at the description. In this case LiFePO4 was not mentioned anywhere else in the listing and you might have some trouble returning the goods.

[casstony]

Hi Bill, from my point of view the picture misrepresented the product as lifepo4. Nevertheless the seller is going to give me a refund and suggested not accepting delivery and having the battery returned to sender.

The seller has said that the 40Ah battery is lifepo4 so I might still give that a go.

[Atmos]

I currently have a 200 AH deep cycle battery that I use when I'm not at home and if I had the funds at the moment I'd upgrade to a LiFePo4 in a heartbeat.

200AH deep cycle is 75kg and is best not discharged below 50%. 200AH LiFePo4 is 25 kg, had been discharged to 95% and can be charged at about 5x the speed!

[netwolf]

Peter i did see some AGM batteries at Aldi they had quiet a few at the store i went too, i also note Aldi start to doscount if things dont sell .

[casstony]

The sexiest aspect of Lifepo4 is their light weight, especially when one has knee or hip problems :)

[Zuts]

I agree. I don't have a permanent setup (and I have a heart condition), so it's one more less heavy thing to lug around in the dark.

Since it can be discharged till nearly empty, my 33 ah @ 3kg is the equivalent of a 60 ah @ 20kg lead acid.

[DaveNZ]

I have been looking at a LifePO4 too. This will be for my permanent setup and would be charged via a 200w solar panel via an ePever MPPT 30A charge controller which can be setup for lithium charge parameters.

What I like is that lithium voltage stays more level than my Gel cell battery (better for running electronics) also with my gel cell you can only really use about 50% or less of the capacity while lithium I think you can use up to about 80% of the capacity.

Still a bit hit up front $$$ wise though. I been looking at buyinh local here in NZ from AASolar.

Dave

[casstony]

I got a refund for the 60Ah NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobalt) lithium battery and ordered the 40Ah Lifepo4 with a 10% off voucher that Ebay happened to have available. It sounds like a good thing but time will tell.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-40AH-Lithium-Battery-Lifepo4-Portable-Power-Station-W-LCD-Charger-And-Bag/142905405468

The 38Ah lead acid gel cell I have is very heavy and only lasts about 3 hours with dew heaters running. I've also got a 17Ah jump start and between the two batteries I get maybe 4 hours imaging time with heaters set fairly low.

[Zuts]

That sounds like a good deal with the 10% off.

Cheers
Paul

[casstony]

I've used the 40Ah Lifepo4 a bit and it seems like a good thing. I ran it for a few hours when it arrived with a dew heater to test it and then used it running the mount and heaters last night for a few hours and the voltage hasn't changed (charging it now for the first time as I didn't realise the battery needed to be switched on to accept charge).

The battery reads 13.3 volts. The charger reads 14.6v until the battery is switched on then a little less while charging. The charger has a red light which turns green when fully charged (charger turns off at 14.5v).

- loads of capacity and only 4.8 kg.