China to Launch 3 artificial Moons

[billdan]

This ABC report says China will launch 3 artificial moons in 2022, that will be 8 times brighter than the our natural moon. You can say goodbye to astronomy over there.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-18/chinese-city-plans-to-launch-artificial-moon-by-2020/10392862

[LewisM]

most absurdly stupid thing I have heard about in years.

A light you can't turn off. Brilliant. Let's hope it fails.

[billdan]

I agree Lewis, lets hope it fails, or else other nations will copy it.

[that_guy]

If you actually read the article it's pretty interesting. They say "moon" but its looks like it'll be used to light up a VERY small portion of China and they'll have full control as to where it'll be pointing at. I seriously doubt they'll be pointing it at anywhere near us astronomers. Plus, I can only imagine the number of international kerfuffle it'd cause if it was aimed at anywhere that's not china.

[LewisM]

Yes, I read it, but why the hell do we need lighting at night, seriously? Illuminate a 50km radius... daylight 24/7. Exceptionally poor idea.

Sure, it saves electricity, but you know what saves more? Don't turn lights on in the first place.

[billdan]

If your an amateur astronomer living in the suburbs under its footprint you would be very upset.

Betcha its got surveillance cameras on it to see what the population are doing at night.

[multiweb]

I wouldn't worry about it. With all the space junk up there it will look like shredded cheese in no time.

[silv]

You wouldn't worry? I would.
Since 2016, the Chinese perform CRISPR experiments on cancer patients.
Without even proper monitoring or, god forbid, proper previous lab experiments. Peer reviewed? Nada. Only anecdotal is it known that patients have died and anecdotal it was purported that their deaths had nothing to do with Crispr.
In June 2018, a properly peer reviewed Western lab scientists proved that the anti-cancer enzyme used to Crisperly alter the DNA becomes itself a conduit for further cancers of certain types. This shows how little preparation they invested before considering human experiments. They care **** about human lives.

Next example of how horribly they neglect oversight and risk awareness:
In 2018, Chinese news hailed the new project to build 10s of thousands of furnaces on the Tibetan Plateau to spout silver iodide into the air, seeding clouds which shall water the Chinese region North of the furnaces, size_of Iran or Alaska.
Which energy source will they be using for heating the furnaces? Won't be solar, that's for sure. Shouldn't be nuclear: area is prone to earth quakes. (Shouldn't - but what do the Chinese care, aye.) Wind? That would be too well thought out for their standards. So it will be fossil fuel = coal. All hail CO2. The irony in that...

But: Already in 2016, a Western peer reviewed publication concluded that silver iodide polluted over and over again on the same area in quantities as used in cloud seeding has detrimental effects on the !studied! organisms:
"- After AgI exposure a decrease in cell viability was found for soil bacteria.
- Freshwater organisms were more sensitive than soil organisms to AgI. [photosynthesis was lowered - oh, the irony again]
- A cumulative effect of AgI may affect terrestrial and aquatic biota."
Other organisms weren't examined - toxic AgI effect on them can not be ruled out, of course.

Do the Chinese care? No. Their Science Minister or whatever institution oversees all these proposals is a psychopath. And their ugly state capitalism system doesn't have checks and balances so he (probably a he for psychopathy is usually a male thingy) can do whatever he likes. Just plain horrible.
They care **** about human lives. They care **** about the planets intricate ecosystems. And they don't have the state system which can put a stop to the stupidity of their rulers.
Let's just wait what will happen to flora and fauna - or even aviation - once they put the first mirror up there. I'm positive it'll go horribly wrong and it'll turn out that that could have been prevented by basic ground research.

[RyanJones]

Are we really believing this ?

It will save around $250 million per year...... About 20c per person in China. No body is that stupid to work on those economics are they ?

It an idea to cause outrage, you stir the pot and while everyone is looking at what is on top, nobody questions what bubbling underneath. You're talking about a communist society that tend to believe a lot of what they're told. Before we smash out keyboards in anger..... Let's just take a step back and think " REALLY ? "

And Annette, there are a lot of countries that throughout time have done some really bad things without care for human life or the impact it had on others. Of all of those atrocities by their psycopathic or sociopathic leaders, I don't think furnacing AgI is among the worst....

[glend]

Can this be stopped, perhaps by the UN? Isn't there a Treaty on space that covers its use and benefit for all.
Yes there is:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty

China has signed it. Placing light polluting devices in orbit should be a violation of the Treaty.

[cometcatcher]

Wait a minute, how does this work? If it's only 500km above the Earth it won't be stationary from an observers point of view. It will be moving as fast as all the other stuff up there at 27000 km/h and go over as fast as the ISS. To be geostationary it needs to be 37,000 km out.

And, at 500km up it will be in Earth's shadow an hour or two after sunset.

Sounds like BS to me.

[silv]

True. Their purpose was to commit atrocities.
That's a difference. Whereas the 2 Chinese projects I laid out are not purposefully horrible or against human rights on purpose - but horrible due to no regard for risk awareness, basic research, or ethics in scientific research.

But maybe Kevin is right. At 500km altitude the mirrors would be falling at the same speed as the ISS and the non-stationary satellites. So you might be right as well: there's a bigger story behind this probable fake news.

I am relieved, really. Hope those furnaces don't get built, either, and were just a cover-up for a bad wheat harvest or someink.

[multiweb]

Maybe it's a bunch of death stars hidden in inflatable props. We're doomed. :scared:

[RyanJones]

So the astronomical version of the Trojan horse ? :eyepop:

Now we need the Russians to send up a space babushka :lol:

[LewisM]

Launch grandma into space? Cruel.

I take it you mean Matryoshka doll (nesting/stacking doll)...;)

[multiweb]

:lol: I remember these. Always lost the little one in the set.

[LewisM]

America will claim it as intellectual property theft, sanction them and possibly halt development, so we should be safe.

[RyanJones]

I even did my google research before I wrote it ? How can I be wrong if google said it ? Lol. Turns out if you actually click on it ( second level research ) it gives you the proper name Matryoshka. Sorry grandma :)

[julianh72]

Most Chinese cities are so light-polluted and air-polluted that astronomy is pretty much out of the question - heck, in Beijing and Shanghai, you can barely see the sun on a cloud-free day!

But yeah, I think this whole scheme is utter BS!

[multiweb]

Maybe the mirrors can be adjusted to focus on a very small surface and the ants will start running. ;)

[bojan]

Have you ever watched "If you are the one" dating show? NONE of the boys mentioning astronomy and/or related fields as their interest or hobby ever scored a date ;)

[LewisM]

Funny you should say that.

My wife once attended an astronomy talk at ANU with Brad Tucker et al. She texted me during it saying it was a hall full of virgins :rofl:

[Kunama]

Hey !!! I went to that one :shrug:

[multiweb]

40 year old virgin? They made a movie with that one. :P

[xelasnave]

First step to the Dyson Sphere☺
Alex

[LewisM]

OK, OK, 1 concession...:P

[AndyG]

:p

[silv]

It's still a fascinating idea, doing something with the solar power up there.
And I enjoyed reading 3 long articles on related subjects. First I tried to find an original Chinese news article on the matter. Found one, google translated it - and it doesn't mention the specific 500km altitude. Maybe that number related only to a singular test.

Anyway. This article here was a great about a Russian guy pushing for illuminating 10-70 km2 areas from space, the "Banner" project mentioned in the ABC-story. The space test (and his team's) was successful in beaming light from a structure jettisoned from the MIR - but the receiving regions on earth were mostly under cloud cover (!) so didn't "see" much. A really great read for your morning cuppa. https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9a3y8d/the-man-who-turned-night-into-day

A retired professor, Susumi Sasaki, explains the project of Japan's Space Solar Power System, SSPS, (https://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/solar/how-japan-plans-to-build-an-orbital-solar-farm)his country's rather solitary approach to collect solar power in space and beam it down via laser or microwave (better bc mw aren't scattered by clouds like laser is) to a receiving station on earth. By 2030, he projects, construction of the 1st 1GW SSPS-station could begin - if an international cooperation finds the funds for it for Japan can not finance it alone.
The on-earth test in late 2014 Sasaki mentions has been successful. But I couldn't find anything on the low-orbit test in 2018. These FAQ (http://www.kenkai.jaxa.jp/eng/research/ssps/hmi-faq.html) give an overview on the required research areas and obstacles. The page appears to have been last updated in 2013. So not sure how much progress has been made since the 2014 Sasaki editorial on IEEE.

Another nice-to-read-article, just not at all technical, is the Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/06/rjukan-sun-norway-town-mirrors) one from 2013 about a small town in Norway near Oslo, Rjukan, which sits in a trough surrounded by high mountains and doesn't get direct sunlight for 6 months a year. Until an artist pursued and realized deflecting sunlight from mountain based mirrors down into the market square. Where town people can sit on new benches and get their winter blues lifted.

[tlgerdes]

Didnt they do this in the James Bond movie "Die Another Day". So what happens when the decide to focus the light from a 50km spot to 50cm spot?

[RyanJones]

Marc summed it up earlier..... Look out " ants "