Dark day in Aussie cricket

[strongmanmike]

Speachless....:sadeyes:

The worlds best batsman since The Don and Aussie captain, Steve Smith... is plain and simple a blatant cheat...dear 'o dear....

I'm heart broken this morning...

Mike

[ngcles]

Hi Mike & All,

Indeed a very sad state of affairs.

I think the only honourable course of action is for Australia to forfeit the match and for Steve Smith to stand down from the captaincy for the rest of the series. I have a high regard for Steve Smith and of course this isn't the end of his career nor his captaincy, there are a plethora of similar instances even in test cricket that have not ended the career of the perpetrator. Smith's opposing captain (Faf du Plessis) was found guilty of a similar offence only a couple of years ago. However, ball tampering is abhorrent and must be stamped-out by stern punishments.

I can well imagine a number of former Australian captains and players are turning away in shame.

Best,

L.

[Tropo-Bob]

"Be a good sport" used to be said to encourage better standards of behaviour.

I gave up watching the NRL years ago when one of my favoured teams dropped the ball before the line, and knew it, but managed to fool the referee into awarding the try. They all celebrated so shamelessly that it made me feel ill.

Gilly deserved to receive special awards for bringing cricket into repute for the manner that he would walk when he knew he was out, regardless of the ref's decision.

[Hoges]

Hear hear. Far, far too often have the Australians stooped to insults and threats on the cricket field - I'm not saying other teams have not, but it sets a really poor example.

[Saturnine]

I was actually listening to the ABC online broadcast of play last / early this morning when the incident was brought to light and have to say that I'm dismayed and disappointed. Any ethical and moral high ground that the team may have had after the sledging incidents and crowd abuse has evaporated. That it seems it was a premeditated plan to scuff the ball and to be caught out so blatantly should involve match suspensions and fines. Should Steve Smith lose the captaincy, probably not, going by previous incidents of ball tampering by other teams but it is a low light in our proud cricketing traditions.

[GrahamL]

Would the leadership team also include the coach ?

If so boot the lot of them , the captain of any team takes on with the role that unenviable measure of responsibility for when things go wrong beyond there control ,but when they are agreeable to cheating and knowingly set the tone , I cant see how he can go on in the position .Great batsmen but surely no longer the right person to lead the team.

[AndrewJ]

Its just the next step in our lowering of the bar of social acceptance for what can be done these days.
The cricketers are just taking a lead from our pollies.
Do whatever it takes and hope you dont get caught.
If you do get caught, obfuscate your way around it till the 24 hr news cycle moves onto something else.
Nothing to see here, move on :-(
Sad really.
Andrew

[billdan]

I was watching the game live on Fox Sports and I was dumbfounded when I saw what Bancroft was doing in front of 30 TV cameras zoomed in on him.

At the time I thought it was just him acting alone, but later in the press conference where Capt' Smith said the leadership team formulated this plan over lunch, was downright suicide.

Didn't anyone put their hand up and say "guys this is illegal what you are proposing". What if Bancroft had said "No boss, I'm not doing it, that's illegal", would he then be dropped for the next test for not being a team player.

[astroron]

That there was collusion from the leadership team in the tampering decision
So they all must be considered in any punishment that is metered out by the ICC.
The Australian team has shown over the period of this test series to be ill disciplined,and even after the punishment received by Warner and others have said we will carry on in the same way.
So the punishment and warnings have had no effect.
Buff seems to condone most of the actions of the team and should also be sanctioned.
I too was ashamed as what had happened when I woke up this morning and saw the interview on line. :(

[strongmanmike]

It is clear, as the actual perpetrator of the illegal action, that Bancroft needs to be suspended immediately but as far as I am concerned, a premeditated colluded plan to break rules in such a clandestine manner, by a captain of a national team, should mean immediate expulsion form the captaincy role and a significant suspension as well.

I don't care what other players of other countries have been dealt after such things in the past, in my opinion there is simply no room for premeditated plans to pervert the rules of a game, especially at international level.

My estimation of Steve Smith has dropped to rock bottom, his brilliance in batting at test level means nothing if he has no integrity.

Mike

[JA]

I think that some of the on-field (and recently off-field) insults and slurs are far worse in terms of bringing the game in to disrepute - If their detail were to become widely known amongst the public.

Best
JA

[el_draco]

I haven't supported Australian teams since that repulsive maggot t.chapel demonstrated his disgraceful underarm problem against the Kiwi's, decades ago... :mad2:

Have seen little to indicate any change of attitude since and have found it truly ironic that they whine when the S.African team have shown they are better at "sledging" than Australia. :rolleyes:

Aussies love to brag at being the supposed "best" in sport, but have proven they will stoop pretty low to achieve the title.

Sportsmanship pretty much died out a long time ago when the great god $ arrived on the field; money killed cricket just as it killed football. :shrug:

[astroron]

I agree whole heartedly.
They have brought the game in disrepute.:(
Smith's halo has definitely disintegrated. :ashamed::ashamed:

[gaseous]

Unfortunately i think this has been brooding for a long time. Australian cricketers like to bandy the phrases "hard but fair" and "within the spirit of the game", which over time, due to the higher and higher stakes involved, have been eroded to mean "be as obnoxious/illegal as humanly possible without actually being caught/fined". I think cheating is the next logical step. After the positively abhorrent behavior of that graceless oik David Warner (who after years of acting like a complete tool both on and off the field gets rewarded with the vice captaincy), it's not unreasonable to assume that winning at all costs gets taken to its inevitable conclusion. I love cricket, but over the last 10-15 years the aussie cricket team has just become an embarrassment of loutish, immature, and uncouth overpaid man-children.

[strongmanmike]

I disagree, there is poor, rude behaviour or sledging in the heat of the game.. and then there is out right flagrant premeditated cheating and this is worse and by a fair margin....

[multiweb]

Saw Steve Smith on that press conference this morning apologizing to no end then saying he wasn't considering stepping down because he still thought he was the right person for the captain's position. If he did instruct his guys to do this and the bloke who got caught and suspended was following his orders then that doesn't add up. He's delusional. :lol: Can't help thinking of all the young kids watching this and aspiring to play for the aussies one day. Some role model...

[clive milne]

Cricket Australia is a privately owned corporation... matters of ethics are window dressing by definition.

[strongmanmike]

Agree :screwy:...I am, and I am sure millions of other Aussies today, totally pissed at this revelation. I am sure Cycling enthusiasts felt similar when they discovered the seemingly immortal Lance Armstrong was in fact just another drug cheat...shameful :sadeyes:

Mike

[Shano592]

I was so dirty about this, upon reading it. I cannot believe that this mentality exists still. That this was the captain's idea is staggering. Talk about shades of Hansie Cronje. I was gutted for the game back then, too. I was always admired the way Cronje carried himself on-field.

In my youth, I was always taught to put your toe to the line, but never go over it. If you can't win from inside the rules, then take up another sport.

A match hard won is a great experience. A match hard lost is not far off it either. You did your best, and you kept your honour intact.

I'm struggling to understand Smith's motivation, and also why he wasn't man enough to do it himself, if it was such a great idea. Whether Bancroft volunteered or not, Smith should never have put this into the players' minds... and certainly not into a junior player's hands.

Now I want to know if the whole team knew about it, but did nothing. If they did, then wholesale changes need to happen.

I'm going to be cheesed about this for weeks. This is my sport, and those at the top are ruining it.

As for sledging, I heard a great response from one of our players in our final, last weekend: "There is nothing that these guys can say to me, that my Year 8 maths class hasn't already said to my face." For me, I am yet to hear anything in my league that comes remotely close to the stuff in the WA Suburban Turf league of old.

[Allan_L]

Yes ... Devastated ... Disappointed

What an unbelievably bad decision this was.
Corrupt and Fraud come to mind.
Steve Smith ... I still can't believe he would be party to such crap.

I, like others, am totally sick of the need to play dirty
(and still call it within the spirit of the game).
But this is a new low low.

Same thing for NRL (my other love).
Dirty blows, tricks, and milking.... stinks and reduces the value of the win.

As someone said earlier ... if you cant win on your own ability and within the rules then find another sport.
Totally un-Australian.

Like you Shane, I am fuming.

And like you Bob, we need more Gillys in the game.
:mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

[The_bluester]

I think it says it all about the culture of the team that the (Now not so) esteemed captain does not see this as a reason to step down.

Certainly smacks of the death of any sportsmanship. You could be your last that he would be giving firm instruction to batsmen "Don't walk under any circumstances unless you are given out"

[glend]

As Michael Vaughan wrote earlier today, every member of the present Australian team, and the coaches, will be forever branded as cheats and it will follow them the rest of their careers. Michael Clarke was gutted, he is young enough to be brought back as interim Captain. Get rid of Smith, Warner, and Leahman at least, to send the message that this will not be allowed to go unpunished. The fact that it was discussed at the leadership level means there is no possible defense for bringing the game into disrepute. I would not even want Smith and Warner to be allowed to drop back to state cricket, their careers should end now. To paraphrase Riddick, let's see if CA has a spine?

[el_draco]

Cheat gets the bullet!, Now dump the rest of them, forfeit the series and send 'em packing!

[astroron]

Smith and Warner stand down from position of Captain and Vice captain but will still continue to play for the remainder of the ythird test.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/43531491

[billdan]

I think you mean the 3rd test Ron, what happens in the 4th test is up to the outcome of the ICC inquiry and Cricket Australia's inquiry.

Tim Paine is the Captain for the rest of this test.

Steve Smith has also been sacked as Captain of the Rajistan Royals in the IPL series.

[The_bluester]

I am not really much of a cricket fan but I disagree that they have got the bullet. They should be on a plane home, not stepping down from "Leadership" positions and playing on.

[astroron]

Fixed,Thanks:thumbsup:

[Shano592]

Yep, they should be on the next plane out of SA, as soon as this test is done.

Any inquiry by CA should be made fully transparent, too. I would hate to see them let off with a slap and no accountability.

[GrahamL]

The Betting culture these guys earn big on overseas will really kill
there money tree, the sad thing is that kid who will be thrown under the bus because he was stupid enough to blindly follow bad direction from those above ,that he was caught out so easily speaks volumes on how much input he really had .
Bills comment earlier

"No boss, I'm not doing it, that's illegal", would he then be dropped for the next test for not being a team player" ......is a valid ask imo .


The next Smith ,Warner (.) , Bancroft, is out there right now

[h0ughy]

lets sack the team and put up a f grade team for a while, just to get back to what is all means, that is playing for pleasure - its too competitive now, not the gentleman's game is was meant to be. but in the old days they didn't have hi res video coverage;) and i am sure more than a few things got past the umpire:rolleyes:

but back to you Richie..............

[billdan]

The ICC has just announced their penalties.

Bancroft gets a 3 demerit point penalty and loses 75% of his match fee.

Smith gets a 1 match suspension and loses 100% of his match fee.
No other penalties.

However when Cricket Australia have their meeting they can add further penalties for tarnishing Australia's reputation.

EDIT: Well Australia lost focus in the 2nd Innings, after being 0 for 47 at tea, they were all out for 107, 15 mins before stumps.

[pmrid]

This series has done a massive heap of damage to my vision of cricket as a sport. Once it was called the sport of gentlemen. Now, however, that is a thing of the past. Like almost all competitive sports these days, it has become something base and offensive. And this South Africa series has taken it to a new low. Not just this ball-tampering incident, but the spectacle of match officials posing with players in masks of a player's wife/partner (Warner) coupled with the off-field abuse of Warner in the same context are beyond the pale. Then, the "contact" incident which was a blatantly deliberate as you could wish, but managed, on appeal, to go unpunished. The conduct of spectators, and the willingness of umpires to tolerate on-field behaviour that requires stump mikes to be turned down or off is nothing short of amazing.

The tampering incident is mortifying - all the more because it was a group decision. A group of leaders at that! But there is history here. Remember past incidents, Mike Atherton in 1994 - rubbing dirt into the ball. He was fined but kept his captaincy; Indias Rahul Dravid used a cough lolly in 2004; Inzamum ul Haq in 2006; Shahid Afridi who bit the ball in 2010 in Perth (he was banned from 20-20 matches); Faf de Plessis roughing the ball on his zipper in 2013 but insisting " we are not cheats " ; South African Vernon Philander using his thumb in 2014 and du Plessis again in the same year, using a mint to polish the ball and copped 3 demerits.

I don't think du Plessis or South Africa have much claim to the moral high ground on this issue. But that doesn't absolve Smith or the so-called leadership group. They have taken cricket to a new low and the game has now deteriorated so far that I, for one, will not take any further interest in it.

Peter

[UniPol]

http://www.cricketaustralia.com.au/about/mission-and-values/spirit-of-cricket

[Paul Haese]

Whilst it is obvious that Bancroft is the guilty party I get the distinct impression this is actually all part of a reaction of cheating going on in cricket every where. I am absolutely certain that there is more to this that meets the eye. I would not be surprised if the cricketers know there is cheating going on from every team and the Aussies thought, if we can't beat them, then join them.

If it's found that there was a plan (not just talked about, what does that really mean anyway; surely the look on Smith's face on the field says he did not really think this would happen), then not just suspension but removal and kicked out of cricket altogether forever. That will devastate our stocks in cricket but will send a clear message. Cheating should not be tolerated but match fixing has been going on for years and I am positive this goes on in Australia too. How do you eradicate cheating when there is so much money involved; gambling now is advertised and encouraged as a mates things. That has to have an impact on what is going being done on the field.

I am largely unsurprised by all this but will be interested to see the outcome from the investigators and what will be end result.

[astroron]

There are a lot of those rules that are broken just about every game
over the season,with seemingly no disciplinary action taken.
The Aggressive in your face appealing while standing less than a meter
from an opposition players face,and when that player is adjudged out giving them the big send off with the finger or hand/fist and a mouthful to boot.

This mob, are the same ones who call Broad a cheat for not walking, and lead the crowd charge in booing him and generally giving him a hard time every time he plays in Australia.
It will be interesting to see the boot on the other foot.:)
These players have something to look forward for a while everytime they play.

[LewisM]

Meanwhile, 41 Australian soldiers have died in Afghanistan to date, for no clear agenda or reason, and the populace says "Meh".

Meanwhile, 102000 Afghani's over 16 years have died in Afghanistan since the US coalition invasion, and the Australian populace says "Meh".

An Australian cricket team tampers with a ball in an on-going game of cheating, and the Australian populace cries foul and bloody murder, claims an insult to national identity and exclaims vehement outrage.

Seriously folks, priorities and context.

[billdan]

The problem I have is, as the Captain/leadership group hatched the plan in this incident of cheating.
Did we beat England 4-0 legitimately in the recent ashes series, or did we win by cheating?

It puts every game that Steve Smith has captained under a cloud of suspicion.

[sharpiel]

Fair point. There are many injustices out in the world.

[speach]

yep he cheated but to hear the poms going on about it they would appear white as the driven snow but remember when Mike Atherton was caught rubbing the ball with a bottle top, so not so snow white!

[Tropo-Bob]

There has been a collapse of numbers in the public beheading in Afghanistan, as well as those of woman that have acid thrown in their faces. The number of women receiving an education has vastly increased.

The US has not endured another 9/11 or even a 'Cole' style attack since going into Afghanistan.

And when an Australian dies there, it is always treated with great sadness, respect, and questions are often asked about whether it is worth it.

I don't recall anyway just saying 'Meh'.

Sorry to go on a tangent everyone. I will say no more about Afghanistan unless it is under its own, more appropriate heading.

[graham.hobart]

"After the positively abhorrent behavior of that graceless oik David Warner (who after years of acting like a complete tool both on and off the field gets rewarded with the vice captaincy)"
too bloody right - can't stand the boof head man child.
Seriously disappointed in this, about as low as it can get for a team usually held in such high esteem.
I don't think the fans will forget about this in a hurry.
Bring them home to shame them. (And roast them).
:mad2:

[AndrewJ]

I reckon people should really stop hyperventilating over this.
Its a game of cricket where everyone knows that everyone cheats.
The only thing here is it was a bit more blatant, they got caught, but then admitted it????
The fact they admittted it so openly reminds me of an episode of MASH where Frank Burns got caught doing something he shouldnt have.
When asked if he had learned anything, his response was something like
"if you do something wrong, never admit it"
It wont be the last time cricket has a scandal.

Andrew

[Amaranthus]

I am a long-time lover of cricket, so this hits hard. Who knows how far it ends up going, I suspect a lot of past footage will be reviewed in light of this incident -- not just for Australia, but most nations. As noted above, it is indicative of the direction professional sport has headed, with the 'win at all costs' attitude trumping any other consideration. This is especially hard to take with cricket, in which honourable conduct has always supposedly been at the core of the game's spirit. Reputations take a lifetime to build, and an instant to shatter. Sheer idiocy.

I remember seeing the cameras going into the SCG dressing room after the Ashes victory, and being shocked at the absolutely loutish behaviour going on there, including spraying champagne all over a wall-mounted TV such that it fizzled and broke. I shook my head at the time, wondering if this was indicative of "the culture". With Warner as VC and Lehman as coach, I suppose I can hardly be surprised. Disgusted.

[graham.hobart]

There is footage on line now of Cameron putting sugar in his pocket before an old game at the SCG> , now one wonders what that was for???:lol:

[leon]

Disgusting behaviour by overpaid prima-donnas.... Shameful.....

Dead right Matt, if it were said to all our sports people, may it be football, soccer, tennis, and cricket plus all the other sports.

"Guys, we know you love your sport and it is your passion in life, but we are not able to pay you for this season, we do need you to play though"

I wonder how many would be left after that season ??

Leon

[el_draco]

Gilcrest, probably playing "down ball"....

[Kunama]

The thing is Leon, not " all our sports people, may it be football, soccer, tennis, and cricket plus all the other sports" are the captain, vice captain or coach of the Australian Cricket Team, surely you would expect that the captain of the Australian Cricket Team should have a enough integrity and respect for the game and the efforts of those who played the game before he was even born, to not bring the game and the team into disrepute.

I know it is not the first time and won't be the last time we see cheating or behaviour that is not in the spirit of the game, but for his actions I hope this captain never captains an Australian side again.

I would rather see Australia lose honestly than win dishonestly, but that's just me..... I think you would too ....

[leon]

Well said Matt, and yes you are right, I to would rather see Australia lose honestly than win dishonestly,

Leon

[GTB_an_Owl]

so why is " Polishing/Shining" one side of the ball not classified as ball tampering?



geoff

[Rkonrad]

Well I am from RSA and yes it is not nice we all want to watch a good contest but every one pushes the limits and some get found out , I have watched and played cricket for 45 years and just wonder how much of what we see now was going on before the 30 odd cameras ? but I feel for you AU chaps , I think too much is made of it . The batting side also see the ball and if it looks bad they can also raise a concern, Just my opinion, perhaps no polishing etc to the ball ?

[multiweb]

They're way too young. It just didn't register. Only after all the media jumped into the band wagon. Did you hear them at the press conference? Like two kids with the hand in the cookie jar. Not mature at all and very self centered. Now it's starting to sink in.

[MortonH]

This behaviour is merely a reflection of what society has become generally.

[Redshift13]

The act of polishing or shining the ball is as old as the game as itself, as a means of keeping the ball in as good a condition as possible, and is legal as per the Laws of Cricket, Rule 41.3.2.

I recall reading somewhere that back in the infancy of the game - early 1900's or thereabouts? - that it was only the captain and the bowler who were allowed to polish the ball (to ensure the integrity of the ball is maintained perhaps? Steve Smith sure has made a mockery of this in the past few days!) but of course this has now evolved to the point that any fielder who gets their hands on the ball is able to work on it, even those hiding sticky tape down their pants!

As a club cricketer for 20+ years and lover of Test cricket since I was a little tacker, I've never been so disappointed in the Australian team as I am right now... not so much with the use of sticky tape to tamper with the ball, but with the premeditated conspiracy to knowingly cheat, and by the captain and vice-captain no less... it's just disgraceful.

I will feel happier if CA shows some backbone and rescinds Steve Smith and David Warner's current contracts and bans them from any future CA contracts for at least 12 months. This at least enables them to still play at state level, or lower, and (hopefully) show some contrition and earn some redemption for this wrongdoing, should they choose to pursue that.

[Shano592]

I paid $330 for the privilege this season just gone. Maybe that's why fair play is so important to me... the direction of flow of the money.

My feeling is that anyone associated with this needs to be eliminated. From the game that is. The ACB needs to hold their players to a higher standard. Give them huge bans. Make the next person who thinks about it, really question the value of cheating.

Lehmann is now set to go, and replacing him with Ponting or Langer will only help things. Scratch Warner, Smith, Lyon, anyone in the inner circle from all levels of the game, and start again.

As for sugar packets in pockets... I used to carry candy snakes or jelly babies, for a sugar hit. It may just be innocuous, but then again, there may be a longer pattern of abuse of the rules. Simple solution is to get rid of pockets in the cricket trousers.

[Shano592]

That was enforced too, as recently as the 1977 summer. I was reading about something to do with it last night.

I shine the pill when I'm fielding at mid-off, otherwise I move it quickly back to the bowler.

[Redshift13]

But that would give me nothing to do when I was fielding down at fine leg over after over! :rofl:

[Shano592]

Surely there would be something to scratch...

[el_draco]

So we have now seen the three of them have a big cry on T.V. and say they were sorry... sort of.

The last one was particularly pathetic, but the one thing that stuck out for me is that I have seen a bunch of bullies get their Karma hit in my lifetime and without fail they have had a big cry and play the victims.

It seems many in the media on the radio this morning are certain there is a lot more to this story and that acting the "sook" has failed to impress.

[Rkonrad]

I dont thing its that bad its the TV and media that make it worse , it happened so forget about it , I am from Check Republic but know quite a bit about Cricket and this is going on all over the world but someone was seen doing it

[leon]

Cheating you all say, fair enough, but isn't it time to move on, they have their culprits and they have been punished.

It will never stop in any sport, look at the Commonwealth Games, that hasn't even started yet and they are finding needles at the complex. :sadeyes:

Leon :thumbsup:

[xelasnave]

We need our sporting heros and we need them to be fallible and demonstrate that greatness is built upon doing that little extra to win over and above a timid reliance upon skill or some nonsense that wining comes from being decent.
And when one tries to judge a professional sportsman remember that they must cope in a world where they were never permitted to grow up and develop to do adult things and in effect were doomed the remain children with no real life experience indeed kept from reality by carers who pushed and encouraged them to believe that playing a game was the pinnacle of human achievement.
Imagine their distorted little worlds and how such an environment would drive one to various efforts to maintain attention from those original carers and now the wider group of carers we call the public.
How else but have a sook would you deal with problems given these folk never really got to grow up and found themselves always playing games and requiring outside attention as the only meaning in their unfortunate lives.
Alex

[OzEclipse]

If like Smith and Warner, I suddenly lost

$1.4M salary + $14k per match as Aussie Captain/VC,
$2.5M as an IPL captain,
goodness knows how much in endorsement contracts,


all due to a brain fart, I'd be crying on TV too.

Even worse, they are going to have to go to AMART and pay for their own cricket bats, pads, gloves and boxes to play club cricket.

Joe

[Orionskies]

My thoughts on this is that this is definitely a cultural issue with in sports and these players are just reflecting the sad reality of our over importants on sporting Hero's.

Let's see a more balanced view of sports and less of it.

Imagine the NSW govt announcing 2 Billion to be spent on Science and the arts.

Cheers.

[el_draco]

Its about time Australia stopped calling muppets like these "hero's". They make millions of dollars hitting a ball with a stick. I hope the lesson has been learned... but somehow, I doubt it... :rolleyes:

[gaseous]

Last week, news.com.au quoted "Australian Test Great, Gavin Robertson'... When playing 4 tests and averaging 20 with the bat and 40 with the ball propels you into the "test great" stratosphere, I think it demonstrates the ridiculous pedestals our sportspeople tend to inhabit in our minds. Or the news media's love of hyperbole.

[tlgerdes]

Make the punishment fit the crime.

If you are a rugby league or union player, a head high tackle gets you few weeks on the sideline, an offside position gets you a penalty. Both are against the rules, both are cheating.

Golf, you move your ball with your hand, penalty stroke . It's still cheating.

Swimming, you go on a team bender with stilnox, you get a fine and good behaviour clause.

Cricket, you plan to rough up the ball with some sandpaper to accelerate a condition that would happen naturally. 12 months out, let alone millions lost in salary and earnings.

Soccer, you feign a trip to get a penalty. Cheating and you get rewarded.

[PeterM]

Totally agree!

[StuTodd]

Jeeeezz :sadeyes:

We got beaten by the Black Caps. You think you've got it bad.
A dark day in English cricket...

Although one was a pantomime "pink ball test" to be honest...

[Rkonrad]

The Black Caps did well to draw the last test

[Rkonrad]

I also agree punishment is crazy

[PeterM]

It's mainstream & social media driven mass hysteria, the so called cricketing public have followed like a herd of sheep. All 3 players should have copped a fine and a match ban. Done and dusted like every other sport as noted above, then get on with the game. All 3 players are very good cricketers, have done themselves and the country proud on numerous occasions and do not deserve this crap.

[speach]

Now there's talk of reducing the penalties, I would like to see the three perpetrators banned for life. In my view what other countries that have had players do the same thing is up to that countries ruling body. Let us show a no tolerance policy and get the good name of Australian cricket back from the depths it has sunk to.

[sharpiel]

I think we all make mistakes in our lives and jobs. Even Darth Vader was allowed redemption.

[astroron]

One thing that the people who say that they are being punished to harshly etc, forget one thing.
Cricket has always put itself above all the other sports as a game of honesty and fairness,after all were does the term "it aint cricket" when things are questionable come from?.
Smith, as captain turned away from his responsibility and allowed a corrupt act to occur under his captaincy.
Warner,as vice captain and supposed leader and planner of the offence was/is guilty of an intentional act of cheating and bringing the game into disrepute.
Bancroft has no defense as he was caught in the act in front of millions of people around the world.
That these three are the main culprits is irrefutable,but there are questions about others involved going forward.
One question I have not heard answered is who are involved as the leadership team?
Are Smith and Warner the only two people in the leadership team?
Smith himself said the Leadership Team agreed with the action,so if there are more than two people in the leadership team, then more heads should roll.
Cricket Australia and CEO James Sutherland are rushing to squash any further involvement of any other players.
Darren Lehmann says he didn't know,is he part of the leadership team?
Who is this leadership team made up of.?
I think there is a lot more to come out of this saga yet.
The three players were found guilty, and natural justice dictates they can appeal,lets see how that appeal goes.

[LewisM]

Norway, 70% of your athletes are "asthmatics" and took 10X the amount of anti-asthmatic drugs than even Finland at the Pyeongchang Winter Olympics, and it's not dope/enhancement cheating...

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/feb/22/norway-winter-olympics-success

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/granskning/ug/nastan-halften-av-svenska-os-medaljerna-har-vunnits-av-skidakare-som-tagit-astmamedicin

[AndrewJ]

Its all irrelevant hyperbole pushed by the media at present.
If they hadnt gone overboard with the condemnations, the sheep that follow them wouldnt have been prodded into baaaaaa ing so loudly.
They all cheat in one way or another, the simple question is does the punishment fit the crime.
When many other high profile athletes got caught doing things, the courts basically say the humiliation is mostly enough of a punishment.
( plus a small fine and a game or 2 out )
These three have effectively been fined millions of dollars by being banned from doing their job.
I'm all for that, IF, the rest of the worlds players ( in all sports ) also get the same for "minor" indiscretions.
Not going to happen when there is a dollar in it
( same as our pollies/banks/lawyers/childcare operators/etc wont ever be punished for "cheating" )

Andrew

[astroron]

The condemnation was not only the media"What do you mean by media?"
A very big percentage of the critics were their own peers and former players.
That the media reported what happened is their job and would be remiss if they did not report on it.
The public have a right to be indignant as this team has been at the forefront
of the holier-than-thou attitude for a long time.
Now the boot is on the other foot.
There are many jobs that one can loose one's livelihood if found to have transgressed,from prime ministers ,judges lawyers truck drivers etc.
These players would have/should have thought what could happen if caught,if they didn't then they just have to take the punishment.
As I said in my other post, this may not be the final punishment,it could be reduced on appeal.

[strongmanmike]

I can see both sides of the argument and don't really know which side I sit on :question: I do think forgiveness and redemption are as important as punishment...so, given the shame and humiliation already experienced and that will persist for some time to come, I won't be too disappointed if their punishments are reduced...

Amen :innocent:

[astroron]

I think Therapeutic Use Exemption (TUE) certificates are too easily distributed, and should not be administered by a team doctor,but by a separate medical body.
Also they should not be administered less than 48 hours before an event.
Team doctors are human and can easily be influenced.

[billdan]

I thought Shane Warne was harshly treated by being banned for 12 months for taking weight reducing tablets. He was trying to lose weight not do a 100 metre dash in under 10 secs.

[AndrewJ]

Yep, but it usually has to be a pretty bad transgression, and it has to have a precedent in law.
SA promoted their recent transgressor captain??
Its true politics used to get you fired for minor transgressions, but they soon came to their senses and stopped doing that when they realised there would be no one left.

They probably thought it would be no different to what happened in the past to others who got caught??? I still say in this case, it is a massive over reaction for a relatively minor ( and common ) transgression.

And as to media, they arent just "reporting" anymore, most give their opinion on how bad it is to stir people up to ring in. It doesnt take too long to detect that many of the muppets who ring in just paraphrase what they heard from the presenters.
ed Its almost like a scene from Lord of the flies, with the cricketers as Piggy.

Andrew

[Orionskies]

From what I understand the players have been given these lengthy sentences for "bringing the game in disrepute ". So obviously the crime goes far beyond the singular act of ball tampering. Being the Australian cricket Captain is a tremendous honour and carries with it the burden of responsibility.

In my view the senior players have been given adequate sentences perhaps the junior player may have grounds for an appeal.

Cheers Julian.

[astroron]

Quote)
Yep, but it usually has to be a pretty bad transgression, and it has to have a precedent in law.(end)

They broke the law,the law of cricket,which btw they signed to abide by.

That an organisation such as Cricket SA? decides to appoint someone that has transgressed doesn't make it right
"Two wrongs don't make a right".

As for politicians, that just goes down to the morality of the government that allows the transgression to go unpunished.:(

The other cases of ball tampering that have gone on in the past have been of an individual nature,not a planned action from a whole cricket team, or a big part of that team.

This was not a spur of the moment,but a premeditated action,which has brought the whole of the Australian cricket team and consequently Australian culture into disrepute.

From what was shown of well respected cricket commentators and past cricketers nearly braking down with the disgrace, and of course the realization by these three cricketers,plus Darren Lehmann and of what they have done that brought them to tears, shows them the gravity of what effect their actions had on them. and the cricket watching and playing community.

Lets hope that this will be a lesson in the future to others who might contemplate trying ball tampering.
Hear endeth the lesson.;)

[astroron]

Steve Smith will not appeal his 12 month ban.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/43638316

[el_draco]

All three "players" were blatant cheats and should have been banned for life..., and that policy should apply to every sport in every event. That's the only way this crap behaviour and attitude will ever be stamped out. :mad2:

It was an attempt at premeditated theft and the financial stakes were high. If they had come home all conquering, they would have benefited massively in the financial sense. They got busted and got off incredibly lightly. IMO :shrug:

[AndrewJ]

Fully agree, but all i was pointing out is there is no precedent for this level of punishment.

Again agree fully, but again, it sets the "current rules" as to how bad something is deemed to be. ie not really worth worrying about.

Not walking when you know you have hit the ball is cheating.
Appealing for a catch when you know it hit the ground is cheating
Its all a matter of relativity.

Andrew

[astroron]

You missed the whole point of my post:shrug:
It was a team "leadership team" collusion not like any other
that has gone before,as is known anyway
A precedent has now been set,so now beware those who may contemplate
trying it or something like it again.
With all the cameras on them players will be very silly to try anything,well for the foreseeable future anyway.
Quote)
Not walking when you know you have hit the ball is cheating.
Appealing for a catch when you know it hit the ground is cheating
Its all a matter of relativity.
These pale into insignificance to this offence and are just part of the gamesmanship that has crept into the game,.
But I bet you ,you will now see a lot more scrutiny in future tests and other first class matches.
As I posted above Steve Smith has decided to NOT appeal the decision so he must believe the punishment is just.

[sharpiel]

Rom I reckon you must be the best and purest bloke who ever lived. :P

Myself I condemned with the rest of the the sheep on this and then I thought about all the fck ups I've made in my life. Some WAAAAYYYY worse than rubbing a ball with sand paper and realised I've been granted second, third and sometimes more chances to make myself better.

We live in a world too focused on punishment and anger. Sometimes we need to step back and realise things aren't really that important.

I reckon you're a good bloke Rom. But I bet you've made your share of mistakes and been forgiven...yeah?

Sorry to single you out but you summed up my own thoughts better than I did before I rethought them.

[AndrewJ]

No i didnt, i just dont agree with your interpretation.
Its now a business, not a game, and that changes everything.

Dunno that yet, and who says the previous transgressions by others werent planned??? ie a POM with a bottle top in his pocket isnt planned??? gimme a break
Our lot just openly admitted to it, whereas the others didnt.. Maybe the captain just "did the right thing" and tried to protect his minions. No idea what really sits behind this yet, but again, all i can say is the punishment is totally out of proportion, based on history.

And here you have missed the point
It is no longer a "game", it is big business.

On that we fully agree, but if you look at what happened in SA re the bowler "walking into" Smith and being charged, but then let off on appeal, you may realise that gate takings override any "sportsmanship" ideals that might have been left.

Andrew

[el_draco]

Indeed. "He" was also a fake, liar and completely over-rated by all accounts! According to himself, he can create fish from nothing... The Law on conservation of mass proves that lie outright :lol:



... and would you consciously set out to cheat? Would you blatantly insult the integrity of the "game" and your country the way this rabble have? :question:



I think integrity is worth dying for myself... perhaps a fading trait in this world... These reprehensible bullies and sooks need to be named up for what they are.

Australian "sporties" are loathed around the world for their complete lack of integrity and the hypocrisy of their behaviour both on and off the field. For better and almost certainly worse, these louts are held up as idols by children looking for role models. The obligation that comes with the adoration these worms crave, is that they live up to a high standard of integrity, rather than the pursuit of the all mighty buck.



"Mistakes" do not involve the premeditated actions of a group to cheat for personal gain. There was NO mistake made here; it was a complete abdication of honesty, integrity and honour as far as I am concerned and they should be crucified accordingly.... just like the above mentioned fake.... IMO

[Wavytone]

I frankly don’t see why so many are so obsessed with this topic.

The day any sport prostitutes itself for serious money - either directly (professional salaries, match fees or whatever the latest euphemism) or indirectly (sponsorships, free houses, cars, gifts, travel etc) is the day cheating sets in in a big way and ruins it for anyone who thinks they can compete fairly.

Has been that way for erm... centuries, if you consider horse racing or athletics.

Just take a look at what happened to thugby, sailing, all the Olympic sports - swimming, weightlifting and athletics particularly...

No surprise that cricket has been tainted with the same.

The only thing mildly surprising is that they thought they could get away with it with 30 tv camera with powerful zooms recording every move in closeup.

The one thing i find disgusting is that our governments pour millions per year in support of making these individuals seriously rich, through hosting things like the Commonweath Games and other premier events and providing lavish facilities at taxpayer expense, such as the Australian Institute of Sport and so-on - yet can’t find the money to provide basic sport facilities for ordinary kids at a local level.

The only reason I can find is that it keeps a lot of voters preoccupied with something utterly fatuous, and diverts attention away from what politicians are actually doing (or not).

And you would be right in suspecting I loathe cricket, and thugby.

[JA]

^ 100%

Best
JA