OK IIS people what is this

[Graham Sanders]

Hi Folks, I am restoring an old scope circa 1915-30 maybe, can anyone identify the make or offer somewhere to go to find out who made it?
what I know, 105mm diam lens, 1450mm OT,possibly F/15, look forward to some feedback, cheers Graham

ps if anyone has an old mount and tripod that would suit this scope let me know, long bow however you never know unless you ask!!!

pps a couple more images that might help, EP with protective shutter

ppps More images of items that might help, nails from the scope container if it is the original container and the partial label, with some info:

TROUGHTON AND SIMMS
OPTICIANS
ANDMATHEMATICAL INSTRUMENT MAKERS
TO THE
HONOURABLE LORD OF ORDINANCE

the rest is gone unfortunatley,

[Wavytone]

Grahame it’s nigh impossible to say without any identifying labelling or engraving. It looks like a Cooke, but theirs always had the name clearly engraved on the backplate supporting the eyepiece drawtube.

Another possibility is the objective lens, sometimes the makers name is pencilled or engraved on the side of one of the glass elements. The objective elements should also have alignment marks so that the elements can be reassembled correctly.

Any clues as to where it has been, the previous owner ?

Have you tried it optically ?

[Graham Sanders]

It came in a box with a label troughton and simms, not sure if it is the origonal box however? oh and I'm not interested in selling it, just a realy interesting piece!

[Wavytone]

Quite likely that’s the original box, if it was designed to hold the scope, Troughton & Simms was definitely in the business at that time.

Have you tried the people in AST ?

[Kunama]

I don't think it is a Cooke or Dollond. My guess would be that it is a Watson and Sons, Troughton&Simms, or Broadhurst-Clarkson. Both W&S and B-C have made scopes that did not have their name engraved.....

I think it may be as old as c1900....

I have a Berry&Mackay 3.25" which has a very similar objective cell but not the external collimation. Though marked as Berry&Mackay(Aberdeen) I believe mine was made by Watson and Sons for the B&M who made other instruments and were a telescope reseller....

[Kunama]

What thread is on the eyepieces, RAS??? I have a few brass eyepieces that do not fit mine....

[gts055]

Hii Graham, I do not know the maker of this telescope. It does have similarities to Broadhurst Clarkson of England and Watson also of England. These two makers were nearly identical in some models and I believe Broadhurst Clarkson supplied Watsons with tubes and focusers etc for some models. The peculiarity of your telescope is the mechanics of the collimation with those pairs of "L" brackets and the threaded adjusters that alter the separation of the brackets and thus the cell tilt.
I have a 1923 Watsons Astronomical catalogue and nothing resembles that method of cell collimation. I have two different 3" Broadhurst Clarkson telescopes and they also resemble Watsons. They are engraved with Broadhurst Clarkson and an address on the focuser.
Maybe try enquiring on the Yahoo group Antique Telescope Society "https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ATS_Forum/info
It sure looks to be a magnificent telescope. All the best Mark

[Kunama]

I haven't seen that external collimation before but as Mark said, a magnificent telescope...

Have you taken the rack out to check, mine has some faint marking on the edge of the rack.

[ab1963]

I think from its design it could be a Broadhurst Clackson ,British scope maker from London ,It would be a good place to start.....

[strongmanmike]

What ever it is Graham, it looks quite beautiful :thumbsup:

Mike

[Graham Sanders]

I completely stripped the scope down to nuts and bolts, 30+ hours of sanding and polishing to get rid of the black and white paint, not to mention the scratches of which some were quite deep! The rack has not yet been polished, I was not sure it would be a good plan as the baffle inside would need to be removed and re-velveted, could create some tolerance issues however the rack seemed to be claen and no hint of ID branding..

[Graham Sanders]

I will check that and get back to you...

[Graham Sanders]

thanks for the comments, I'll hopefully find some concrete answers and solve the mystery, cheers Graham

[N1]

Watching this with interest but can't add anything other than to say it's a beautiful piece of kit, and I also like the photo of the label for some reason - good pic in its own right.

[Kunama]

Graham,
the Honourable Board of Ordnance was disbanded in 1855 and if that box is the original for that scope then the scope should also date from the first half of the 19th century.

The scope has many similarities to Troughton & Simms instruments of the time. The eyepiece shutter and some of the knurling as well as the screws used.

This book might reveal all: https://www.abebooks.com/first-edition/Achromatic-Telescope-Mountings-Equatorial-Simms-William/1372857790/bd

[MattT]

Hi Graham,
I have an old mount made by Thomas Gaunt circa 1876, as best I can find out.
Kunama..one of a few Matt’s bought it from Lars Hansen and stripped it back to Brass and black iron. Lars bought it form Cris Ellis who bought it from an old bloke in Ballarat who had had it for decades.

I bought it up to the 1950’s with a slip clutch and tangent arm, both controlled by a Losmandy/ Celestron 492 drive system and stepper motors.

I’m not really interested in selling it but your scope is made for it...
Here is a photo with my 90x1000mm achro on it. Only weighs 160kgs as pictured.
Matt

[Stonius]

Wow - were Cooke telescopes considered to be good? I ask because if it's the same Cooke I'm thinking of, they make some legendary (and very $$$) lenses for cinema cameras. I wonder if their prowess continued across to other fields...

[Wavytone]

The Cooke refractor I’m familiar with was very much ok, having used it many times. A beautiful thing with fine optics. As I recall it, despite being a 4.25” doublet at f/16 the residual colour errors were not objectionable - unlike some modern achro refractors.

That’s only a sample of 1.

The other refractor I used a lot was the Oddie at Mt Stromlo but that was not an amateur scope. Compared to say my Santel MK91, the Santel is optically better than the Oddie was.

[leon]

I agree, that is lovely looking instrument, regardless of make or model.

Leon

[Merlin66]

+1 for the ATS forum.
They have lots of experience identifying old scopes.
You should definitely make contact with them.

I reconditioned a 4" Dancer telescope back in the 70's - a work of art.

[dannat]

Troughton & sims are resppnsible for a telescope at melb obs , - the threaded access. in last pic are very similar to some still in use by asv meners today on the 8"

[Graham Sanders]

Thank you for the lead, I'll do some investigating and get back to IIS when I have some updates. The journey continues folks, cheers Graham

[Graham Sanders]

A work of art and engineering, thanks for sharing, if you couls put it on a diet I could think about it!!! cheers Graham

[Graham Sanders]

I think it will be ready for 1st light in the winter, looking forward to that magical moment!

[AstroApprentice]

FYI, there's a beautiful T. Cooke refractor & mount available here for $$$:
http://skylight-telescopes.com/?page_id=314