PKay
19-12-2017, 11:03 AM
This information was posted on Saturday, unfortunately it disappeared into the ether after the crash.
I did have a few responses (thanks heaps).
I have incorporated those responses into this ‘take 2’, and since done a few more experiments.
Like everyone I am trying to work out the best exposure time, GAIN and BIAS settings.
It has taken me months of study to get this far, and please enlighten me if I am still wrong.
This is only my take on things. It is not definitive information.
What I am working toward (since I have a colour camera) is to preserve the dynamic range. If a star is blue, red or yellow I want to see it.
So far all my stars turn out white.
At the same time, I want to catch the misty stuff.
I have been reluctant to do any more imaging until I get this sorted.
As a starting point, and this really got me going… is Shiraz’s formula:
Target_ADU = BIAS + 10*RN*RN/GAIN is for a CMOS camera such as the ASI1600MM.
Ray says that the background ADU count should be slightly higher than the Target_ADU
So how do we get and use this information, and will this formula work for a colour camera?
I use Sharpcap and the BIAS is set by the ‘BRIGHTNESS’ control. This is also called OFFSET by others.
BIAS = BRIGHTNESS = OFFSET. They are all the same thing.
BIAS is simply a number that is added to the photon count (more on this later).
It has been said by some the ideal setting for the BIAS on the ASI1600 is dependant on the GAIN setting.
These BIAS settings are from the default ASCOM driver (so come from ZWO ??):
At GAIN = 0 => BIAS = 10.
At GAIN = 139 (unity) => BIAS = 20.
At GAIN = 300 (almost max) => BIAS = 50.
I think it turns out (read on) the BIAS setting is not so important. Set it at 20 and forget all about it.
The formula above needs GAIN to be in units of e/ADU
Using the specifications for the ASI1600:
GAIN setting of 139 (unity) translates to 1 e/ADU
Also at unity GAIN the RN (Read Noise) =1.7 e/rms
Use BIAS = 20 (for unity GAIN).
So plug these values into the formula and the Target_ADU = 51 ADU.
I now have a number of 51 ADU. So how does that help?
Next thought is what does ADU mean (aside from Analogue to Digital Unit) ?
Each pixel contains a photo diode. When a photon hits it, an electron is produced. The electron is stored in a capacitor which sets up an electric field which results in a voltage. This voltage (analogue) is then converted to a number using an ADC (Analogue to Digital Convertor). At unity GAIN one photon results in the number 1 (which is 1 ADU). Now the BIAS is added to this ‘photon count’ (in this case 20).
Now we talk about ‘FULL WELL’.
With the ASI1600 I can choose a 12 bit A to D convertor.
The maximum number it can output is 4095.
Using the ‘Statistics’ tool in Pixinsight (it must be set at 12 bit ADC):
It shows the white areas of an image have a K value (ADU value) of 4095.
At unity GAIN this translates to roughly 4095 photons have hit the sensor (noise from the photo diode can add a few ‘false photons’), and you can take away the BIAS value (which is about 20 in this case).
This indicates those pixels are fully saturated or ‘Full Well’.
I then performed a series of tests to evaluate how BIAS and GAIN setting affected the K (ADU) value found by using the tool.
I took 4 BIAS images (lens cap on, shortest exposure time).
With the ‘BRIGHTNESS’ (or BIAS or OFFSET) set to 0, 10, 20, 100.
The GAIN was set to 0.
In the PI Statistics tool, the K value (ADU) matched almost precisely with the BIAS value (using the median value in the tool).
Thinks makes sense (I am getting somewhere).
Then I set the BIAS to 0 and took 3 BIAS images with the GAIN setting 0, 139, 500.
Now it gets interesting.
At GAIN =0 the result for the BIAS median value came out at close to 0. Correct.
At GAIN=139 (unity) the BIAS came out at 2 (close enough), however I did notice the MAX value had jumped up to a value of 60 ie: At least one pixel had collected a K value of 60.
At GAIN=500 things went haywire. The tool showed the median K value (ADU value) at 1 (which is OK), however the MAX value skyrocketed to 3700!! Looking at the image I could see bright pixels all over the place.
What this is saying, is that GAIN settings of greater than unity are to be used with caution. Not to say you can’t use high GAIN settings, but you will end up with a lot of ‘false photons’, even before you start.
It may be the case that the DARK images remove all this noise, further testing required.
Back to that value of 51 ADU calculated earlier.
I evaluated one of my M31 LIGHT images (debayered ). It showed some red nebulosity however all the stars were white.
The median K value (ADU value) was about 200.
This value is obviously way to high.
The calculated value is 51. Mine was 200. Must be something in between…
In conclusion:
Previously my GAIN setting (200-250) and my BIAS setting (30) were way to high. I was using only 30sec exposure.
Soon, when the clouds clear, I will try the following settings (hopefully on the Jewel Box, or Pleiades) and then move on to (back to) Orion:
GAIN = 0. BIAS = 20. 30sec, 60sec, 120sec exposures.
GAIN = 139. BIAS = 20. 30sec, 60sec, 120 sec exposures.
Then fire up Pixinsisght and evaluate the results.
It addition, I feel the best images from the ASI1600MC are going to be the integration of several different GAIN settings and exposure times, and that will depend on the target and seeing conditions.
More on that later after some field testing…
Thanks for any input.
I did have a few responses (thanks heaps).
I have incorporated those responses into this ‘take 2’, and since done a few more experiments.
Like everyone I am trying to work out the best exposure time, GAIN and BIAS settings.
It has taken me months of study to get this far, and please enlighten me if I am still wrong.
This is only my take on things. It is not definitive information.
What I am working toward (since I have a colour camera) is to preserve the dynamic range. If a star is blue, red or yellow I want to see it.
So far all my stars turn out white.
At the same time, I want to catch the misty stuff.
I have been reluctant to do any more imaging until I get this sorted.
As a starting point, and this really got me going… is Shiraz’s formula:
Target_ADU = BIAS + 10*RN*RN/GAIN is for a CMOS camera such as the ASI1600MM.
Ray says that the background ADU count should be slightly higher than the Target_ADU
So how do we get and use this information, and will this formula work for a colour camera?
I use Sharpcap and the BIAS is set by the ‘BRIGHTNESS’ control. This is also called OFFSET by others.
BIAS = BRIGHTNESS = OFFSET. They are all the same thing.
BIAS is simply a number that is added to the photon count (more on this later).
It has been said by some the ideal setting for the BIAS on the ASI1600 is dependant on the GAIN setting.
These BIAS settings are from the default ASCOM driver (so come from ZWO ??):
At GAIN = 0 => BIAS = 10.
At GAIN = 139 (unity) => BIAS = 20.
At GAIN = 300 (almost max) => BIAS = 50.
I think it turns out (read on) the BIAS setting is not so important. Set it at 20 and forget all about it.
The formula above needs GAIN to be in units of e/ADU
Using the specifications for the ASI1600:
GAIN setting of 139 (unity) translates to 1 e/ADU
Also at unity GAIN the RN (Read Noise) =1.7 e/rms
Use BIAS = 20 (for unity GAIN).
So plug these values into the formula and the Target_ADU = 51 ADU.
I now have a number of 51 ADU. So how does that help?
Next thought is what does ADU mean (aside from Analogue to Digital Unit) ?
Each pixel contains a photo diode. When a photon hits it, an electron is produced. The electron is stored in a capacitor which sets up an electric field which results in a voltage. This voltage (analogue) is then converted to a number using an ADC (Analogue to Digital Convertor). At unity GAIN one photon results in the number 1 (which is 1 ADU). Now the BIAS is added to this ‘photon count’ (in this case 20).
Now we talk about ‘FULL WELL’.
With the ASI1600 I can choose a 12 bit A to D convertor.
The maximum number it can output is 4095.
Using the ‘Statistics’ tool in Pixinsight (it must be set at 12 bit ADC):
It shows the white areas of an image have a K value (ADU value) of 4095.
At unity GAIN this translates to roughly 4095 photons have hit the sensor (noise from the photo diode can add a few ‘false photons’), and you can take away the BIAS value (which is about 20 in this case).
This indicates those pixels are fully saturated or ‘Full Well’.
I then performed a series of tests to evaluate how BIAS and GAIN setting affected the K (ADU) value found by using the tool.
I took 4 BIAS images (lens cap on, shortest exposure time).
With the ‘BRIGHTNESS’ (or BIAS or OFFSET) set to 0, 10, 20, 100.
The GAIN was set to 0.
In the PI Statistics tool, the K value (ADU) matched almost precisely with the BIAS value (using the median value in the tool).
Thinks makes sense (I am getting somewhere).
Then I set the BIAS to 0 and took 3 BIAS images with the GAIN setting 0, 139, 500.
Now it gets interesting.
At GAIN =0 the result for the BIAS median value came out at close to 0. Correct.
At GAIN=139 (unity) the BIAS came out at 2 (close enough), however I did notice the MAX value had jumped up to a value of 60 ie: At least one pixel had collected a K value of 60.
At GAIN=500 things went haywire. The tool showed the median K value (ADU value) at 1 (which is OK), however the MAX value skyrocketed to 3700!! Looking at the image I could see bright pixels all over the place.
What this is saying, is that GAIN settings of greater than unity are to be used with caution. Not to say you can’t use high GAIN settings, but you will end up with a lot of ‘false photons’, even before you start.
It may be the case that the DARK images remove all this noise, further testing required.
Back to that value of 51 ADU calculated earlier.
I evaluated one of my M31 LIGHT images (debayered ). It showed some red nebulosity however all the stars were white.
The median K value (ADU value) was about 200.
This value is obviously way to high.
The calculated value is 51. Mine was 200. Must be something in between…
In conclusion:
Previously my GAIN setting (200-250) and my BIAS setting (30) were way to high. I was using only 30sec exposure.
Soon, when the clouds clear, I will try the following settings (hopefully on the Jewel Box, or Pleiades) and then move on to (back to) Orion:
GAIN = 0. BIAS = 20. 30sec, 60sec, 120sec exposures.
GAIN = 139. BIAS = 20. 30sec, 60sec, 120 sec exposures.
Then fire up Pixinsisght and evaluate the results.
It addition, I feel the best images from the ASI1600MC are going to be the integration of several different GAIN settings and exposure times, and that will depend on the target and seeing conditions.
More on that later after some field testing…
Thanks for any input.