What mount - not sure what to do

[Jasp05]

Hi guys,

I think this is like the 3rd time I've asked this question. But each time I've had a bit more experience with different setups and have learnt what I like/ don't like.

I am currently enjoying astrophotography with a custom built tracker and dslr with 55-250mm lens.

However there are some inherent faults in my tracker and am looking at moving to the Star adventurer. (probably should of started here...)

But I'm torn as to whether I should buy the star adventurer or go the whole hog and just buy a HEQ5 pro.

I feel like i wouldn't use the HEQ5 for visual , as I much prefer the ease of pushing a dobsonian around. (And I think I have aperture fever already) so would like to get a 12inch + sized dob with GOTO in the future. But for now my 8 inch dob is working just fine.

But I'm not entirely sure I want to start using refractors for astrophotography on the HEQ5 either. Costs seem to skyrocket once you start adding a decent refractor with field flatteners and guiding. (Although If i lived at a dark site and had an observatory I would definately go the HEQ5. )

So my main question is this.

I'm thinking of buying a Star adventurer cause its light portable and can produce some really nice results. (I'm aware i may need guiding but that would be doable within my budget right now/ approx $2000).

However a HEQ5 is less portable more setup time, more expensive. But would it be worth it? I've also heard about ppl changing the gear drive to belt drive on these mounts. whats that mod worth?

This is a long post, but I'm quite unsure as to what I want to do. Carrying an EQ mount and a DOB seems like a lot of hassle. A star adventurer and dob is easy. or an EQ mount with no visual observing for the night seems boring...

[Imme]

Hate to say it...... Save for an eq6 as a minimum.

I made the mistake of thinking an eq5pro would do the job.

[doppler]

Get some tube rings for the 8" dob and an heq5 pro. You will have portable visual and goto imaging. The NEQ6 would definitely be better, but I always try to get as much out of what I have before spending more.

[Jasp05]

I've got a collapsible Dob. But fortunately I picked up an EQ3 mount that had an 8 inch reflector with rings on it. :)

After seeing the difference in size from my old EQ1 tripod to the EQ3. How much bigger is the HEQ5? Trying to keep gear requirements and weight down to be as portable as possible.

But either way you guys are recommending the HEQ5 over the star adventurer? My trips out to my dark spot are only 30 mins down the road but with a young family and work, I usually only get to squeeze in 3-4 hours of astro time once kids are fed and in bed.

What are your thoughts on needing autoguiding on the HEQ5? requirement ? or just nice to have?

[raymo]

In my many long years I have discovered that there seems to be a
relationship between the persistence within the hobby of newbies, and
the size[weight] of the gear that they invest in.
I agree with imme that an eq5 Pro is barely up to the task for serious
imaging, but the HEQ5 Pro is a different beast altogether, quite capable
of running an 8" f/5 Newt,[mine did for years].
I feel that as the OP has referred to easy portability, that he obviously
values that. The NEQ6 is significantly heavier than the HEQ5, and unless he has plans to run something larger than the 8" I think he would be perfectly happy with the 5.
The belt mod reduces periodic error, and gear noise when slewing, but the mount's guided tracking is good enough for most new and intermediate level imagers. The OP could do the mod further down the track if he is near his budget's ceiling for now.
raymo

[Jasp05]

Thanks for that Raymo.

If I was to do any imaging beyond my dslr and lenses I'm currently using, it would be to look at a small 80mm refractor or 6 or 8inch reflector. (ive got an 8 inch I can try out already).

And what do you deem to be serious imaging? I'm interested in the large nebulae, bigger globs and galaxies right now. And I still enjoy very widefield stuff but my existing tracker is sufficient for anything below 100mm FL up to 5min unguided.

Keeping it light and simple setup is a main priority for me right now. If I was going to do serious imaging I'd have an observatory in my backyard with permanent pier setup. Which is a whole other discussion.... (Is it worth having an observatory in town?)

As far as setup time between the star adventurer and the HEQ5 is there much difference. I'm assuming there's not a whole lot of difference there.

[raymo]

Hi again Aaron, Autoguiding is essential a bit further down the track, but
with really good polar alignment and using an 8" f/5 Newt[focal length 1000mm] you can get a high percentage of acceptable subs of surprising
length. In my experience, about 99% @ 30secs-- about 75-80% @45sec,
about 50-60% @60secs--about 35-40% @90secs, and about 20% @120secs.
I have had on occasion perfectly round stars at 150secs[probably 1 or 2%.
Obviously, if you use a scope of 500mm for example, you will get unguided
exposures roughly twice as long,[ more likelihood of knocking the scope,
or wind caused movement, the longer the exposure.]
For your information the mount weighs about 10kg, 2x 5kg counterweights
=10kg + about 4.5kg for tripod, so about 24-25kg all up. With a smaller scope you would only use one counterweight, so all up would become 19-20kg. I am an octogenarian, and can carry the complete mount out into my backyard, so assuming that you are very much younger, it should be a doddle for you.
As a guide, I can be imaging within 20 minutes of taking my scope out into my backyard, or 25-30mins at other sites. Much of this time is taken up with polar aligning.
Hope this helps.
raymo

[raymo]

Perhaps serious was the wrong word. I regard "serious" as meaning aiming
for high quality images such as those that frequently grace our main forum.
These routinely require long to very long exposures, over several sessions,
and, incidentally, require comprehensive processing skills.
As a contrast to this, if you have seen any of my images here, you will
realise that I have never reached those heights in digital imaging, having
spent many many years doing film imaging, but being seriously:lol:
computer illiterate, couldn't get my head around anything more than basic processing; almost all my processing is done in DSS.
Regarding obs in town, it depends upon how big a town, whether the town lights are between you and the best part of your
sky for imaging, etc: you can significantly reduce light pollution with a filter.
raymo

[Jasp05]

This is what I'm currently considering. Although the Star adventurer appeals to me more because of the portability, If I try to do anything on planets or with a bigger reflector from home I think the HEQ5 will be much more beneficial.

Mount:

https://www.bintel.com.au/product/skywatcher-heq5-pro-goto-mount/

Guidescope:

https://www.bintel.com.au/product/orion-deluxe-mini-50mm-guide-scope-with-helical-focuser/

Anyone got any ideas on a guide camera? looking at the bintel website mostly because they seem to have the largest range of items. (Plus I generally like to get everything from the one place). Looking at a ZWO Asi120mc. Is that sufficient for guiding and planetary imaging. Or would the ZWO Asi 290mc be better?

[Camelopardalis]

At 250mm, you're certainly going to have to put some effort into polar aligning whatever mount you choose.

The Star Adventurer can only be guided in RA. I'm not convinced this is a big deal, since if you're on the precipice of autoguiding, you're going to do the above anyhow. It's certainly small and capable, within its payload capability.

FWIW, you're not going to put THAT big a reflector on a HEQ5, they scopes just get heavy fast. Beyond 8" you want to be thinking EQ6. But I reckon you could get a lot of satisfaction out of a small(ish) refractor and a HEQ5.

The 120MC isn't particularly sensitive for guiding or planetary, although it might have been considered so a few years back. The 290, and its bigger pixelled brother the 224, are much more sensitive..actually, current pack leaders. No free lunch, unfortunately, but buy the best you can afford, the food will last longer.

[Jasp05]

Would a 6 inch f6 reflector work well on the heq5? As a nice middle ground between the 8 inch reflector and a small refractor?

From all ive seen and read 8 inch on the heq5 is pushing it. But works on calm nights. And for visual im sure its just fine.

And ive seen some good photos taken through 6 inch on heq5.

Ive been dealing with secondhand gear or stuff ive made at home. Which has hardly been reliable. Im looking for something that will be reliable under most conditions and also provide some decent views visually. If im doing photography i honestly think it wil be with my dslr only for the next while. However the 8 inch for visual is appealing as going down in aperture seems a backward step from my 8 inch dob. (But if it meant the setup was much better for astrophotography to.drop those 2 inches i would consider it)

[Camelopardalis]

If you’re happy with your DSLR, go for the Star Adventurer. Bigger mounts will always exist if/when you decide to go bigger.

With every upgrade there is always extra complication.

Key thing is to enjoy your time under the stars and don’t let anything get in the way of that :thumbsup:

[doppler]

An 8" newt rides nicely on a heq5 pro, I have that mount and push it beyond the max (10"f4.8 newt) but it is mounted on a pier. My guide scope is a 120mc and does the job for the price and is not too shabby as a planetary cam either. I have some smaller scopes that I also use for imaging, but always seem to head back to the 10", smaller is easier but you can pick up so much more and with shorter exposures with the bigger aperture.

[Jasp05]

Thanks Rick.

I assume your using the 8 inch newt on the pier also? How does it fair outside on a tripod?

I want a setup where once I've learned to setup and align properly, that there isn't going to be much extra hassle to take some photos. Would like a mount and scope that could hold up in windy conditions.As I mentioned previously I'm generally quite limited in my time when I head to my spot. So would prefer quick setup, spend half hour or so aligning and getting focused etc, then start shooting for the next few hours.

my spot is on an open plain so generally has at least a bit of wind if not quite a lot most nights.

And judging from other forums/ posts i've read guiding is pretty much essential for subs beyond 30-60secs. which with a dslr is pretty much required I imagine.

If I was to go the HEQ5 pro with 8 inch F4 newt, I can get a full guiding setup also as opposed to the EQ6-R pro and 8 inch F4 newt for the same money....

[jenchris]

As a minimum, I'd go for a HEQ5, but in fact I have a star adventurer and it isn't bad for up to 250mm lenses.
I shall be taking it abroad next year as my travelling kit as anything bigger is a patent waste of luggage space.

[Jasp05]

What do you guys think of this.

I buy the HEQ5 Pro mount and use it to mount my dslr for widefield stuff still. plenty of things to image at 250mm FL with my lens.

I'm also looking at getting a 50mm guidescope with helical focuser and the ZWO ASI290MC camer for autoguiding the dslr and planetary imaging.

I already have an 8 inch reflector (f5 i think). Its a bit old but would suffice for visual. And I can try my hand at planetary imaging with the ASI290MC. (I can image planets from home so having the larger scope on the HEQ5 will be more manageable given my backyard is quite protected from the wind and neighbouring lights.

how important is autoguiding for planetary imaging? I'm thinking its probably not 100% necessary given we stack thousands of frames to make up planetary images?


And in the future I'll keep an eye out for a used 80mm Apo or something when I want to take the next step.

[jenchris]

No guiding needed for exposures under 0.02 seconds!!

[doppler]

For doing planetary imaging you only need a motor drive, guiding is used for long exposure deep space imaging.

A good mount makes imaging a lot easier, and with a guided system the whole process becomes more consistent. Start small with a good mount and you will be there in no time. An 80mm apo is a perfect start with something like the HEQ5 pro.

The bigger the tube the more it will be affected by wind and longer focal lengths make the smallest vibration noticeable.

If you do go for a 8" f4 newt you will need a coma corrector as well, an f5 is more forgiving.

I have a simple pier behind my shed, but its a lot more stable than a tripod so I can get away with putting a 10" newt on my HEQ5, anything smaller is fine on the tripod.

[Jasp05]

I was thinking of the f5 as being easier to handle. (Collimation should be a bit easier and i wasnt sure if i would need the field flattener at f5).

As for the 80mm apo. They are quite expensive compared to a large reflector... and would currently throw my budget out the window if i was to get one with mount and autoguiding gear.

So torn still. Have literally spent most of my day researching scopes mounts images taken with different setups.

I just need someone to tell me an 8 inch scope on a heq5 pro (weight of scope and accessories around 10-11kg) will work just fine for visual or imaging under most conditions. :P

The guys at bintel told me 8 inch was too big for the heq5 and that the eq6-r was still borderline for an 8 inch. I think he was trying to sell me the az eq6 mount....

[luka]

HEQ5 has rated weight limit of 15kg. For AP the usual rule of thumb is not to go over 1/2 of the rated weight limit. For visual you can probably get away even with 10" Newtonian on HEQ5. For AP things are different.

8" f/5 is 9.5kg (steel tube) and after you add camera + bits you will be few kg over the 1/2 limit. So it is definitely pushing it, especially once you try longer exposures with guiding. Having said that, people have done it, just google "heq5 8"". But you will see comments like "it works but once I tried a smaller scope the guiding worked better".

8" Newtonian would sit comfortably on EQ6, definitely not borderline as you were told. 10" would be pushing it on EQ6, especially with the steel tube. Again people have done it but the same comments as HEQ5 + 8" apply.

By the way, SW ED80 doublet at Andrews is only $200 more than the 8" Newtonian (and $200 cheaper than Bintel if that is where you were looking). Alternatively you can wait for a 2nd hand scope, they do come up every now and then.

[glend]

You can probably push the HEQt to 12kg for imaging, just make sure the scope is properly balanced. It should handle an 8" newt fine imho, and most refractors. Its a good learning combination, the HEQ5 and an 8" newt.

[Imme]

I had a 6 inch Sky-Watcher on a heq5, with DSLR, zwo guidescope and zwo guide camera. Yep, a heq5 will hold it for astrophotography.......but it is pushing the limits and impacts guiding ability. I’ve upgraded to an eq6.....should have saved my cash first up and gone straight to the eq6.

....that’s my 2 cents

[doppler]

There are plenty here that have been using an 8" newt on a HEQ5 for imaging, its not the weight problem it's more the fact that a long fat tube will pick up vibrations and catch the wind and is harder to balance.

If you get the imaging bug you will want to go bigger aperture with a lower f ratio. For me it comes to justifying the expense on a hobby, some people have very deep pockets, but I have to make do with the budget stuff. Though, if I had the option I would upgrade to a Neq6.

As for pushing the limits my setup is at 15kgs, works for imaging but is no good on breezy nights.

[xelasnave]

I carried my 12 inch on a eq 6 and managed to have it work by careful balancing and moving it manually to targets.
Mike used a 12 inch on an eq6 years ago to achieve outstanding planet photos.
Having said that and thinking of adding an eq5 to my gear I don't feel confident putting the 8 inch ( f5) on it...an 80 would seem the go.
I do think starting out and not using auto guide is the best path as that approach demands attention to alignment and balance...Or so is my opinion.
Alex

[DarkKnight]

I can totally relate to what you are hoping for with your astrophotography.

I'm a keen photographer who became interested in photographing nightscapes and a few of the more visible nebula. I started looking at the mounts and before I knew it I'd been sucked into the gear acquisition vortex, with my supposed needs and their associated costs spiralling out of control.

Like you I initially thought the Star Adventurer suited my needs but then got caught up in the above mentioned gear acquisition vortex and got an upgraded EQ6, not terribly portable as I have to leave home to see more than the odd patch of sky, and more recently an HEQ5 Pro, which I've since sold because the add-ons were getting out of control.

A month or so back I had a serious talk to myself and tried to re-asses just what I wanted from my astro photography. And I came back to what I said above, "photographing nightscapes and a few of the more visible nebula." For that I don't need a GoTo mount, guiding, and a 'scope costing thousands of dollars.

I googled Star Adventurer Astro shots and was more that pleasantly surprised with the results found. To that end I've picked up a Star Adventurer kit, highly portable and user friendly. I'm now looking forward to getting out there instead of finding excuses not to pack forty-odd kgs of gear into my ute.

I guess it all comes down to what level of results you hope to achieve from your photography. If you aspire to APOD level results then poverty will be your constant companion because you will always be 'needing' that next level of must-have gear.

Good luck with your deliberations.

[Jasp05]

Hi Kev,

Your post hits the nail on the head. I was getting caught up in what I "could" get as opposed to what I "need" to get satisfaction with astrophotography.

I like the simplicity of setting up a tracker to do its thing and then go do some visual astronomy while I wait.
I think I would get more use out of a GoTo Dob than I would an EQ mount that I have to setup everytime to use. My dob I drag out plop it down and off I go. Can have a look for an hour or so and then pack If I so wish.

Where as I feel I would have to invest more time to make it worth the setup of the EQ mount..

I'm thinking the star adventurer and a light pollution filter will suit my requirements for the near future. Will look at using guiding with it, but need to do more research into this. (I believe it can autoguide without a computer running phd2 or similar? This would be ideal).

So does anyone have any complaints or issues about the star adventurer?? What would be a suitable tripod to mount this on. I've currently got a Manfrotto MKBFRA4-BH tripod but think this may be a bit light.

I got out last night with my tracker and in 10 min I was setup and aligned close enough to shoot 90sec at 100mm FL on M42. (Light pollution is killing me though:( )

[Jasp05]

I've had an offer for a HEQ5 pro with Rowan belt mod, (Mount is roughly 18months old). Mount looks to be in perfect condition.

Is this a safer bet than a brand new HEQ5 pro? I don't mind getting the 2nd hand finder scope and guide camera (ASI 120mm). But just concerned about the mount. How long do these mounts generally last before you start having issues with tracking, slop developing in the drive train, or clutches slipping?

[jenchris]

About ten years without any real servicing.
Second hand is usually good.
Clutches are not a wear item

[doppler]

Most scopes don't get a lot of use anyway so if it looks in good condition it probably is. It is easy to adjust any play in the mount drives trains if needed. http://www.astro-baby.com/heq5-rebuild/heq5-m1.htm
Second hand heq5 pros go for around $700 and I believe a belt mod costs around $100, 18 mths is practically new anyway. If the price is right it will sell quick.

[Jasp05]

I've taken the plunge and purchased an HEQ5 pro with 50mm guidescope, ASI120mm guide camera. Just going to keep using my dslr and lenses for now and will look at an OTA or refractor once I get guiding under control.

So I'll spend the next few weeks trying to work out how to get it tracking properly.

Be prepared for more questions on how to correct my PA or PHD2 settings :P


Thanks for all the responses and advice. Was a big help in finally deciding what setup to go for. :thumbsup:

[xelasnave]

Congratulations and good luck.
Alex