Thinking mount upgrade

[grimsay]

Hi folks,

I have a 8" Skywatcher Dob. and it's great. See's plenty of use and serves my needs perfectly.

However, the constant nudging to keep objects (particularly planets at high power) is frustrating. I'd also like to experiment with some quick and simple photography.

With this in mind I'm considering investing in an EQ mount, some tube rings and dovetail bar to carry my existing OTA.

In the classifieds is a 'Sky-Watcher HEQ5 Pro SynScan GoTo' which, after some research I think would work.

I have no intention of getting into Astrophotograhy seriously (don't want to spend any longer in-front of a computer) but I would like a mount that could provide some degree of flexibility in the future.

Am I thinking along the right lines with an HEQ5 Pro?

Thanks, Iain

[Atmos]

A HEQ5 will work fine with an 8” newtonian. It’ll do it for astrophotography so it will work fine for visual.

[glend]

How many times have i heard that? The HEQ5 will be fine, where ever you end up.;)

[raymo]

If you don't intend to do serious imaging, for the cost of an HEQ5 plus tube
rings[ plus what you get for your present OTA] you could get a new 8" or near new 10" GOTO Dob; easier and much quicker to set up and operate. Having had both, for visual, and short exposure imaging, I would go with the Dob every time. If, however there is any likelihood that further down the track you will do some serious imaging, the HEQ5 would be fine to mount your OTA on.
raymo

[astro744]

You will find that with a German Equatorial Mount the eyepiece will often be at awkward angles but nonetheless workable. Rotating rings would be nice but they are expensive. An EQ (Poncet) platform is a nice solution for Dobs and works very well. GOTO on a Dob will give you tracking too but with field rotation which isn't an issue for visual observing thougth.

If you can get an EQ platform it may be your cheapest solution and will allow your Dob to still operate like a Dob with minimal electronics. The EQ platform has two stepper motors and a small circuit board controlling the rate. The angle of the platform needs to match your observing latitude. There are some very expensive ones on the market but you can pick up a used one or even a home built one or build your own. An HEQ5 + rotating rings will likely cost a bit too so a new 8" GOTO may end up cheaper. ( or look at a used 8" SCT with RA motor only for use when viewing planets).

I'd go the EQ platform as you can use it on a larger scope later if you get one (depending on weight) but most will easily handle a 12" telescope. I use one on my 10" Newt and have used a 6" Newt on a GEM mount and much prefer the platform.

If you do get a GEM you can operate without rotating rings by loosening the tube rings when you want or need to rotate the tube. Not ideal but workable.

Whatever you choose, enjoy!

[xelasnave]

Go for it.
Andrews are selling them cheap at the moment..
An eq5 will certainly work for visual and as Colin says if you do decide to do any photos the eq 5 will be ok.
My tip... avoid astro photography unless you are single have lots of money and an independant income.

Seriously however I expect you could do good astro photos with a eq5.

I have an 8 inch (f5) (and other scopes from 6 thru to 12 inch) and I think it is the perfect size for all round ...mine seems to give good views and so far the few photos have been pleasing...

You know you want it get in before the Andrews sale stops...if it has not already.

alex

[Atmos]

Or a partner that shares your photographic interests :P

[xelasnave]

A "silent" partner perhaps???

I lament over all those years I wasted being married:D ...wasting my money on clothes and furniture and all my time wasted being together with ..well a variety of "partners" over time... none of whom you could call silent ... (joking of course they were all wonderful and I am the better for the times they shared with me)...time wasted when I could have been doing photography under the stars.

Had a funny day yesterday. A visit by the lady who bases her life and my behaviour on astrology... to sit and appear interested and non judgemental proves I am a very calm person...not one dig or comment that well it is all BS... nod but dont nod of;)f. However maybe I am not being honest by hiding my views... the trouble is she thinks I am nice ..when I am only being polite..

I might get me one of those eq5 mounts ..it would be so much easier to lug around..mmm plus a good 80mm maybe.

alex

[Allan_L]

Following on from Raymo's post, Andrews sell an upgrade for standard DOBs to become Goto Dobs.

[grimsay]

Thanks for all the feedback! That's alleviated my concerns regarding the HEQ5 as being suitable to carry my existing scope.

With a young family and work commitment's I'm very much time poor. That's why the dob's so great. And working in the Adobe suite daily kills any want to jump into hours of Photoshop in what spare time I do have.

But Glen sum's it up well...


I wasn't sure if an EQ Platform would provide accuracy for a competitive price?

And I didn't know the GoTo Dob's could track... the simplicity is appealing, how accurate are they tracking wise?

[raymo]

If you centre a target using a low power eyepiece, you could go indoors
and have a snack and a cup of coffee, and when you return, the target won't
have moved much. Plenty good enough for most visual needs that I can
think of.
raymo

[Atmos]

I found that my polar aligned HEQ5 tracks considerably better than a 12" goto dob that I had BUT the dob still did well. The HEQ5 was smoother whereas at high mags you could see the motors stepping (not bad) on the dob.

As has been mentioned, for the price of a HEQ5 Pro and rings ect you could get a larger goto dob than your current 8". I've found the goto accuracy and tracking on my EQ6 far superior to the dob but the dob did a reasonable job and one that you would be very happy with as an upgrade from full manual.

[Allan_L]

The DOB tracking is fine.
Depending on your setup and alignment accuracy, of course.
Fine for observing that is, I would not suggest it meets the demanding standards of imagers.
And YES, under high magnification (eg planets) the tracking is noticeable and jerky, but that's not a problem for visual (IMHO). In any event, it is better than continually nudging. And its "hands free".
For low magnification, on DSO's, it appears seamless to me.
And on occasions I have left the scope for an hour to return and find it still centred. [albeit not always].
I was reasonably happy with mine, most of the time, right up until I sold it last month! (because the size and motors weight of the SW goto 12" was getting to my old back.)
In short: I'd have no hesitation in recommending a SW Goto DOB.

For the record: I am now using Argo Navis (push to; no motors) on a smaller SW, and I couldn't be happier. :clap: :clap:

[grimsay]

Great food for thought, thanks guys.

Good to know the GoTo is an option I hadn't even considered.

Now I'm torn, haha... I think if I was to stick to the Dob route I'd like to increase my aperture at the same time, get more bang for my buck. Hard to justify dropping a grand to alleviate just manual tracking. The HEQ would be more future proof, applications wise, but may be overkill for the foreseeable future. But then I don't fancy having to adjust the OTA in the rings for seeing angle, sounds like a pain.

[Atmos]

Go the Goto dob, you won’t be disappointed :)

[raymo]

I would think a 10" SW collapsible GOTO would be inside your budget
if you can be a bit patient. They come up in the classifieds here
from time to time.
raymo

[Allan_L]

not too often Ray...
I had been watching and waiting for over 12 months. for a 10"SW Goto.
Finally picked my current up off Australian Astronomy Buy Sell (on FB) 20mins after listed. Even happy to travel 7 hours each way to pick it up. :)
Subsequently, my SW 12" GoTo Dob sold on IIS inside a few hours.
In other words, gotta be lucky. (or its overpriced).

You could probably sell your 8" for $300-$350.
A new 10" SW GoTo is $1699.
That does sound better math then paying $999 for the 8" goto upgrade.
That's just my humble opinion.

[astro744]

If your likely to change DOB telescopes then an EQ platform may be your best bet.

See http://www.budgetastronomer.ca/index.php?page=eq-platform

http://www.reinervogel.net/index_e.html?/Plattform/Plattform_e.html

http://www.equatorialplatforms.com. ( I would call this one premium and there are probably others similar)

http://sawdustfactory.nfshost.com/eq%20platform/

https://opticaleds.com/custom-made-equatorial-platforms/platforms/

Just search 'EQ platforms'. Lots to choose from and some can be used for photography so yes they are accurate.

Enjoy!

[acropolite]

You might also consider the az-eq5 or 6 skywatcher mounts. For visual the Az mode would be more ergonomic and easier to align, plus having encoders they can be de-clutched and quickly moved to another point in the sky without needing any re-alignment.

[grimsay]

Thanks for all your advice guys. I've ruled out the HEQ5 for my existing OTA for now. Too much faff.

Liking the EQ Platform idea, reasonably affordable, easy and upgradable (could be used for larger later). Then maybe I could get a small refractor on a small EQ mount for grab-and-go and to play with so easy pics. I dunno, there's no perfect option.

Anyway, thought I'd summarise things for anyone else thinking of switching to an EQ mount for their dob with the aim of providing tracking.

Solid EQ Mount (HEQ5 up)
Pros: Great for visual and imaging, future proof (can mount upgrade scopes)
Cons: Costly, not as easy to setup, need's tube rings prefdferably rotating (bit of a pain if not) and dovetail bar

Go-To Dob / Go-To Dob upgrade
Pros: Easy setup, easy use
Cons: Costly, tracking not as good as EQ mount, field rotation issue if imaging (?)

EQ Platform
Pros: Keeps things kind of simple, pretty affordable (can even DIY), partially future-proof (can carry bigger scopes to a point before compromises accuracy)
Cons: Limited tracking time, fixed to geographic location, extra piece of gear

Does that about cover it?

[Wavytone]

Either commit to being a visual observer, or flog all your gear and buy a rig to become an imager. And in doing so accept that there are many others with far deeper pockets - and better gear - producing better results than you can ever achieve.

If you are thinking of photography you will probably conclude your dob OTA is not appropriate for a whole host of reasons - after wasting many $$$ trying.

If you look around the imaging (dreadful word) forums you’ll find:

- many are using small APO refractors, focal length under 1000mm and f/7 or less l with telecompressors and flatteners; this has a lot to do with the pixel and sensor sizes of available camera vs the depth of your pocket (ie $$$)

- a few persisting with longer/larger OTAs but this also has implications in terms of the size and cost of the mount required to produce half decent results;

- a very small number using exotic optics such as Hyperstar, Maksutov-Newtonians (1.5 stop advantage over f/7 refractors), Riccardi-Honders astrographs (f/3) and other exotic beasties if cost is not a consideration.

Using a DSLR on a dob-style lightbucket OTA on a cheap mount won’t get you far. Either take the plunge and spend north of $30k on a really good setup or don’t bother IMHO.

And anyone whose lifestyle stretches to a permanent setup in a dome in a dark location has a huge advantage over those limited to portable gear.

[grimsay]

Sums up my concerns pretty well, thanks Wavytone.



Have you gone down the EQ Platform route Astro744? Optical Ed's (https://opticaleds.com/custom-made-equatorial-platforms/platforms/) look good, wondering if anyone here has purchased one or if there's an Australian equivalent builder?

[astro744]

I have the Johnsonian VI that I bought from Bintel over 10 years ago. This was the economical version of the Johnsonian V which had more features. With the VI you just sit the complete Dob with ground board onto the platform. Some designs require you to remove the ground board which makes them a bit more stable. Rubber feet on the ground board stop the Dob from slipping on the 'VI'.

Not sure if anyone in Aus sells any these days. Johnsonian are no longer available.

When casually observing and hopping from object to object I don't use the platform but when planetary observing especially Mars, the platform is a must for comfortable viewing over extended periods. Resetting the sector is very easy and takes a few seconds.

[Hemi]

I think the az eq6/5 mounts are excellent.
I don’t think you need to choose to be visual or image, I happily try do both to my level of satisfaction.
I also don’t think you need to spend $30k or give up on imaging. I’ve see many posts on this forum, cloudy nights and astrobin with very modest equipment. A lot of it comes down to the art and skill of the imager.
I also dont understand the comment about other people’s pockets....it’s not a competition.

The main purpose of this hobby is to enjoy its travails. Visually I couldn’t see half the things I can now 2 years ago, with the same equipment.

Good luck with your upgrade decision.