Bank Royal Commission..

[dbowie]

We don't need a banking royal commission....

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-03/commonwealth-bank-latest-scandal-might-be-the-one-that-hurts/8772390

[Wavytone]

Meh... You'll see lawyers queuing outside the mercedes dealers tomorrow as this means guaranteed fees for years to come.

Our court system is so slow as to be almost useless - look at Obeid for example; everyone knew he was corrupt and should have been locked up decades ago, but the legal process ground along so slowly it only did that for the last few years of his life and even then if terminally ill he'll be let out on compassionate grounds.

My guess is CBA has nothing to fear for at least another 10 years, by which time the current CEO will be retired, the entire board will have moved on, and they'll shift the entire operation offshore to a tax haven where our laws have no jurisdiction. In the meantime we'll have had a stockmarket crash or two to provide some distractions (and more opportunities for the legal money laundering racket that is the stockmarket).

Given the trend to move large enterprises offshore I'm actually surprised banks haven't done that long ago and reduced their presence here to mere websites.

[dbowie]

True That...

[xelasnave]

Why don't we?
Or do we?

My conspiracy theory...someone is trying to drive the share value down so they can buy more shares.

Who will be frightened out of their shares I don't know because if you really avoid the sky is falling mantra it is easy to conclude the bank won't be allowed to fail, the process will be so long as to offer minor consequence ..

Follow the money...who could be grinding this axe.

Tip when they drop buy in...
Anyone selling short? Who?

Whilst we look for a wipe.out of the bank remember traders profit on relative minor share price fluctuations.
You mentioned my spelling earlier I admit I dont pay it much attention and it is not terrific anyways but I am typing all this stuff on a small phone with my left thumb and so I would ask you to extend me a small tolerance here.:)

And I think I figured the "Dad" thing..was it my post re getting back to Sydney? I was thinking about my father and typed in Dad ..you must have read it before I edited it...but so you know I didn't type it from some sort of paternal claim over the forum.

Anyways what are your thoughts on the pros and cons of the statement in your op.
Alex

[dbowie]

I was thinking no need coz they'll all hang emselves eventually but as Wavytone and you point out its prob gonna be a hack job one way or the other mebbe even JP Morganish if the CBA has to pay a trillion dollars fine, who will bail them out therefore creating a new banking environment...

[xelasnave]

I am never sure what is the point if a Royal Commission other than attempt to convince the public that something is being done, which is somewhat ironic given the many recommendations that are not acted upon..

So far the market does not seen to care if the share price offers any indication.

Alex

[AndrewJ]

Also gives unemployed/retired lawyers and judges a way to score some more easy money, as well as give the Govt of the day a means to obfuscate the whole process. Too big to fail comes to mind when we only have 4 banks.

Andrew

[Boozlefoot]

I just knew this would happen the minute they stopped handing out the little tin moneyboxes and stopped using passbooks.:mad2:

[FlashDrive]

There's a new bank in town ....

Criminal Bank of Australia ( CBA ) :rofl:

;)

[casstony]

Bypass the enquiries and go straight to the pitchforks I reckon. The big banks are a blight on society.

[xelasnave]

Well if you have a super fund involvement you may have money invested in CBA as well as the rest.
Alex

[casstony]

White collar gangsters sharing some of the spoils to keep you on side.

Their shady activities covered by the media are small time compared to the real damage: by funding asset bubbles with cheap money they've put our economy in a perilous position.

[xelasnave]

I wonder why money is so cheap.

Is it the fault of the banks?
I maybe being over simplistic and falling into the trap of generalisation however can we see banks as anything more than agents who lend other peoples money.

I would like to see figures that identify where the money comes from.

I guess that it may be that super may be behind all the problems actually...pure speculation...but consider the buckets of cash in super funds that must get a return.

The price of money suggests the supply is high otherwise interest rates would be higher.

I found it interesting CBA short term bonuses have been reduced from the aspect that such has taken place but more importantly the fast response.

Alex

[AndrewJ]

Gday Alex

I suspect that since the corporations managed to get rid of the gold standard, a lot of the money doesnt actually exist, other than as a few bits in a computer.
Its all starting to look like a ponzi scheme based on trust.

Andrew

[casstony]

Our banks fuel the economic crisis locally, while its architects are to be found on Wall Street. There's a very good British documentary explaining it all, including how the banks securitised loans and sold those securities to unsophisticated investors, enabling the banks to effectively have no limits on lending, thereby soaking the world in debt. With all that debt there's a lot of pressure to keep interest rates low.

I'll try to find a link to that documentary.

Keep in mind that US politicians, corporations and the Federal Reserve have a very cosy relationship: CEO's, politicians/public servants and bankers cycle through jobs.

[casstony]

Can't remember if it was "Inside Job" or "The Ascent of Money" I was thinking of, but they'd both be worth watching.
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/professionals/100215/10-must-watch-documentaries-finance-professionals.asp

[AstralTraveller]

Yeee-haa!! I'll fetch the tar and feathers. :D

But what do we really do about them? One way or another they own nearly everything.

[casstony]

We need banks, but we also need proper government regulation to protect us from corporate greed. Unfortunately we have dumb politicians who don't realise that recessions are a healthy part of the business cycle and they have worked with the banks to blow asset bubbles, turning many Australians into debt slaves.

When the sh__ hits the fan (next financial crisis), the banks should be nationalised with shareholders and bondholders losing their money but depositors protected. Instead taxpayers money will be used to bail out the banks rewarding their bad behaviour.

[AussieTrooper]

Not sure why anyone would stay with the big 4. I left the NAB after they stuffed my home loan. Their service is rubbish, unless of course you are a foreign real estate investor, then they love you.

[AstralTraveller]

We certainly need banking services but do we also need the financial institutions to effectively own society?

I'll have to disagree with you about the 'health' of recessions. Having seen a big one up close and personal that certainly wasn't my grandparents take on them.

I also don't agree that it was because of 'dumbness' that pollies have colluded with the banks to turn many Australian onto debt slaves. From their point of view it's a bl**dy brilliant idea. [As a general rule people tend to see any action detrimental to their interests as being caused by stupidity, even when their is clear evidence that the perpetrator(s) are far from stupid. I think this is because most people believe, sometimes unconsciously, in the 'common good' version of society. Once you understand that society is a battleground that illusion falls away.]



This is heading towards a plan of action. However, if you are going to nationalise the banks, why wait until they create another mess? I can be outside my local branch of the CBA, pitchfork in hand, in 30 minutes. I'll tell my wife to hold dinner. :D The big hole in the plan so far is the question of who will control the nationalised banks? The pollies who are in bed with the banks? That's not just an uninspiring choice, it's impractical. We need to find a way to put people in charge of the financial institutions who will act in our interests. [Hmmm .. not so easy is it?]

[casstony]

I think the recession you're referring to was a depression.

We can have periodic recessions to clear out malinvestment involving a little pain, or we can stave off recessions by pulling forward demand and eventually have a devastating depression, which is the current course.

[Orionskies]

I reckon the greed of the banks is just a reflection of the greed of society as a whole. We ( myself included at times) all want the latest tech, car and home with mod cons we want it cheap and we want it now. Mass media, advertising shoves it down our throats your smart phone just told you what you need. And on top of all this we want our hospital , roads and schools in A1 condition at little cost.

So before you bash a bank tell yourself to take a look in the mirror.

On a rant
Julian :)

[FlashDrive]

I remember growing up in the 60's, a Bank Manager was a ' highly regarded ' person in the Community

You'd be ' flogged ' if you said that now ....;)

Col..

[casstony]

Julian, the banks understand exactly how the financial system works, the plebs have no idea and the banks take advantage of our ignorance. Have no doubt that the condition of our economy is a top down phenomenon.

[Orionskies]

Sure Tony absolutely the banks take advantage however the plebs have to learn how to just say NO. No to easy refinance , no to redraw to pay for the Xmas layby, no for the negative geared property on borrowed money.
Credit is so easy to obtain yes the banks need to have checks to not accumulate bad debt but so do consumers...

Thanks Julian

[clive milne]

Well... I think the only sensible solution is to privatise the social infrastructure of this country... what could possibly go wrong?

Their hearts in the in the right place after all.

[JA]

The banks have a licence to print money. Well almost, create it electronically out of thin air is more like it, and then charge us interest on money they never had. It's called Fractional Reserve Banking and it is an INCREDIBLE privilege / gift given to the banks by the government ... a real licence to "print" money. Banks can lend MANY times more money than they have on deposit, with multiples of 10x not unrealistic. If more understood what they are allowed to do and how they do it, there would be widespread uproar. Instead with a willing and paid for media there are plenty of distractions, with plenty of feel good /good corporate citizen bank advertising to convince the public otherwise.

Banks like to maintain their privileged position, that's why they'll support both sides. Sure let's take a close look at what they do by way of an inquiry or commission.

Best
JA

[clive milne]

^^^ Yep...
Another way to say that is Banks actually issue debt.

Moreover, there is not ever enough money in the system to pay back the debt. Therefore, the only way for the system to keep rolling is for it to borrow more money.

For an interesting trip down the rabbit hole, search for:
Subversion of the Bretton Woods agreement and the petro dollar.

[casstony]

After watching 4 Corners last night, I wonder if we'll see a class action against the banks over low doc loans to people the bank knew would have difficulty paying the loan back? Could be a rescue job for Slater & Gordon :)

[AndrewJ]

That would be hilarious, considering S&G have just had a class action going against them for deceiving their own investors:rofl:
Where do the grey area/corrupt activities really start stop when you wear a suit and are a "pillar of society"

Andrew

[AussieTrooper]

Yep. On a fairly regular basis we see someone complaining about how difficult it is to make ends meet...who then return to their 4 bedroom house, 2 cars, 100cm tv...

One great quote I saw was "The poorest people in this nation are fat. Let that fact sink in for a moment."

[Orionskies]

To add to this on that 4 corners program one of the experts summed it up
by saying never has banking conditions be so good low-interest loans it doesn't get any better than this yet 30% of mortgagees are facing mortgage stress now !

Greed is not good.

Julian

[casstony]

Take care not to focus on the little fish guys. While we're all prone to greed in varying degrees and often have ourselves to blame, young families are faced with difficult choices due to the banker/politician inspired real estate bubble. Youngsters are faced with the prospect of paying huge rents or taking out a huge loan.

Collectively we are conditioned to consume, we are not taught about responsible money management and we know nothing about market cycles. The banks take advantage of our ignorance, turning individuals into debt slaves and white-anting the foundation of our economy. I choose to blame the puppet masters, not the little fish.

Note the barefaced lies and deceptions from the ANZ CEO on 4 Corners. He knows he's directly responsible for the unsustainable debt of the nation and individuals yet he feigned innocence.

More than one US president has made a statement to the effect that the banks are more dangerous to a nation than standing armies. A large part of that danger stems from the fact that damage banks do is unseen until it's too late.

[casstony]

The low interest rates are part of the problem. If rates had been near historical norms we wouldn't have had the bubble, loans would be much smaller, rents would be lower and less mortgages would be underwater.

[Larryp]

But then the Aussie dollar would be through the roof, our exports would be overpriced and slowed to a trickle, and we would be importing more because we could buy things cheaper-our balance of trade would be abysmal!
There are no easy answers

[casstony]

The low interest rates, first home buyer grants and no or low loan deposit requirements put the housing bubble into overdrive, creating the pretence of a healthy economy but paid for by our children. Better to have less stimulus today so there's less debt to repay tomorrow.

[Orionskies]

Exactly. Banks definitely can share their fair proportion of the blame for the current financial situation. Banks have always had an elitest culture , self regulated and they know the Government has always got their backs particular the Big 4.

Cheers
Julian.