Opioid crisis in USA

[xelasnave]

I have only recently become aware of this problem.
It seems these drugs kill near as many folk as car accidents or guns, not sure on this but the numbers are not good.
There are more folk using than smoking tobacco they say.
What is going on.
Is there anyone over there at the wheel?
Alex

[Wavytone]

The stupid, armed and dangerous ones rule. They're obsessed with their right to do as they please which includes blowing their minds on drugs. Anyone with more sense is either outvoted or possibly assassinated.

[xelasnave]

It is difficult to form an impression but mine is this.
The public demand a legal drug and it is supplied.
It seems that it is the legal drug supply that is dominant in the problem.
I don't know what to think but the numbers suggest a society that is different to the one Hollywood presents.
Twenty million people addicted to drugs via legal prescription seems strange.
Thinking about this makes me realise I know nothing other than the immediate experience I have.
Fortunately my world is somewhat perfect.
I take no drugs for my pain, I have a box that the doctor prescribed but never opened it.
I suffer but less than I could it would seem.
I had the oxycodine when my back was fixed. I would have killed for more after only a day so I know the power but thanks to folk here who advised me to not fold I gave it away after only a day.. If I had not I would be another zombie.
Funny place the US.
More funny folk try to get in.
Alex

[casstony]

People in the US are much the same as people here; they want a roof over their head, food in their belly and a decent future for their kids.
Unfortunately corporations and powerful interest groups have nurtured a more fearful, dog eat dog society so I'm not surprised that they have more social problems. It's easier to get rich in the US but don't expect help if you fall on hard times.

[doppler]

If you google this question about Australians use of these prescription drugs you will find that we are second in the world for highest use (and addiction).
https://www.thecabinsydney.com.au/prescription-drug-addiction-in-australia-is-out-of-control/

[el_draco]

Try watching a program called "Oxyana" about a rural town in Washington destroyed by these things.

[mynameiscd]

Hi all
I know first hand about otc codine and the grip on your life as it falls apart around you
After my accident and 3 weeks in hospital taking daily what they give you get sent home with a box of oxycodone.
When this ran out the real pain started. From the damage to my ribs and lung its like a knife going in and out of my chest every time I breathe.
After seeing doctors to get repeat scripts one bright spark(doctor) told me to use panadine extra which is half strenght panadine forte and you dont need a doctors script to buy it.
After six months of daily poisoning myself with paracetamol I stopped taking these tablets and thats when I was in real trouble.
I never knew what pain was until the horrors of codine addiction started.
The next six months was off and on the pills just to go to work and get through the day and starting the night sweats again.
I didn't even bother going outside to look up at night and become a grumpy old man and nothing made me happy.
Two years on and now im used to the knife in my chest without tablets but im ready to crumble on a daily basis.
I have since found out that im not alone and there are thousands like me slowly destroying their liver with paracetamol that goes along with the addictive codine.
Continual uses of opioids actually lowers pain threshold and therefore you cant cope with minor pain and starts this cycle again.
Hope this story can help others.

P.S.
Looking at a clear nights sky is more healing than any drug every invented!!!!
Andy

[glend]

I can second Andy's comment about Panadeine Forte being a much better pain relief medication than Oxycodone, but it may have alot to do with prescribed dosage. My recent kidney stone attack, and hospital stay,, was my first experience with morphein, and then opoids that they switch you onto to get you off morphein quickly. When you are delerious with pain you are grateful for whatever works, but personally i found that Oxycodone did little for my pain, it did make me pretty sick (nausea, vomiting) and yes it could be considered a mild euphoric, but two tablets of Cogalin Forte (a combined 60mg of codeine with 1000mg of Panadol (aka Panadeine Forte), worked much more effectively as a pain relief agent with fewer side effects. I have had recurrent kidney stones for decades and mostly the Panadol/codeine mix does the job on smaller ones. For big ones only morphein can provide any sort of relief but they won't let you take that for long, for good reason.
Lucky for me that kidney stones are temporary torture (rarely longer than a week), and they can be removed via catheter if massive ( you don't want to know how they do that). So long term pain relief is not required and so addiction and Paracetamol poisoning issues are not a big problem.
Taking any pain medication for long periods is dangerous, and you should stick to the prescribed dose interval and not take more than recommended. Reduce it as fast as you can and only keep emergency stocks if you have a possible recurrent situation.

Re Alex's comments about just not taking pain medication, perhaps he senses pain in ways different to others. When you are struggling to stay concious under all consuming pain, most people will ask for relief, and not argue about how that is provided.

[el_draco]

Yes, I agree with you totally. I did some serious damage at one point and got put on one of these nightmares. Literally! I read the notice that came in my version and it listed everything from depression, vivid nightmares and suicidal thoughts as "side effects". After experiencing the nightmares in 3D, IMAX, Dolby surround sound at full blast for a month; I couldn't take it anymore and just dealt with the pain instead.... it was so much less traumatic than the cure... FARK! :screwy:

[mynameiscd]

I'm glad im not the only one here that has been to hell and back.
I know what you mean by the 3D nightmares!!!!
Ive been told that the withdrawal for codine is worse than heroin, not as severe but a whole lot longer.
Over it now but still hovers over me ready to grab hold a rip my soul out.
Lucky ive got a clear sky to keep me occupied !!!
Theres a lot of doctors giving bad advice about pain management and when codine becomes script only there will be 1000s of people with major problems hitting the system.
They created this problem I wonder how they fix it?

Cheers
Andy

[clive milne]

Couldn't have put it better myself..

I would go further, however, and suggest that there is overwhelming evidence that the global drug problem was more than just nurtured by the establishment... It was actively engineered as an instrument of geopolitical policy.

The fact that it isn't common knowledge is perhaps a reflection of the absolute mendacity of corporate media.

.... follow the money ....

[xelasnave]

Glen I feel pain that's for sure.
And probably my pain just is manageable.
When I was a kid the dentist told my parents that he would do two fillings (out of four) with pain killer but so I did not become addicted the last two no pain killer. Over four weeks.
The two without pain killer really hurt. Pedal drill which broke down mid way thru.
In reflection I think he was probably an addict and on the forms I got four pain killers not two. Two for me two for him I bet.
Why could he not put two off for a month or so...cruel man.
Alex

[ChrisV]

There have been a few interesting studies which found that US States which have legalised cannabis have lower opioid death rates. An alternative ...

[xelasnave]

I think it takes a pound of cannabis to kill you. Some say that it is great for back pain but you can't have folk growing their own drugs to many will lose money.
I can't imagine being on heroin. Your next could kill you.
Alex

[Orionskies]

The War on Drugs is over and the law makers have lost badly....
Time to take control....
Decriminalized, regulate and tax as a luxury plus GST. Budget repair job like no other... :).

...on high Julian!

[sil]

And judging the range of responses here, there's little actual understanding about the problem, the ease of addiction from legal drugs, and a lack of concern over the seriousness. Some people need to really look up what various words even mean and range they cover. I live in constant pain and am careful and reluctant about any painkillers I take. Your rarely really NEED pain killers and that itself is a problem: people expect to be handed a simple solution to eliminate ALL pain, doesn't work that way so they change their dosage and end up with a dependency problem. If you think you're clever being ignorant then you deserve the problems that will result from that attitude.

[xelasnave]

Hi Sil
My only comment is that ignorance should be pitied.
For my part if not for various good folk on this forum pointing out the dangers of pain killers addiction I would have simply followed the directive that I received when I left hospital...
It's been three years and only twice have I needed a panadol.
The advice at hospital was to take something before the pain got real bad so as to head it off...and I can see why they would say that..
Your comments are important but like many problems we can move forward better without blame or judgement.
I wish I could always remember to approach life that way.
Alex

[casstony]

Anyone who has used opioids after surgery knows that they're no fun and difficult to wean off, but with family support one certainly can get off the drugs.

Chronic pain sufferers are between a rock and a hard place. We get to choose between a balance of pain and side effects.

There are plenty of other nasty drugs besides opioids too, with either addictive qualities or potential to do serious damage.

[Visionary]

A close friend of mine tells a great story about his Grandfather, a Pharmacist and his experience of Opioids, in particular, Morphine in post-WWI London. With little experience of Morphine, Military Hospitals & in particular Field Hospitals were a veritable river of high-quality Morphine. With the Field Hospitals dispensing so much Morphine there was a flood of full blown Opioid junkies descending onto the streets of London.
The method of handling the awful addictions of the returning servicemen was clever, innovative and most important, effective. Appreciating the scope of the problem, Pharmacists across the UK were enlisted to supply clean, cheap Morphine to the returned Servicemen. The consequence of this policy was that the injured Soldiers didn't fall prey to Blackmarket criminals and that their supply of Morphine was clean.
The men could work, they weren't extorted by artificially high Blackmarket prices, their families had enough money even though the breadwinner was an addict. I think our legislators could learn a thing or two from their 1920's compatriots.

[xelasnave]

I think a good case can be made for managing the drug problem in society by treating it as a medical problem rather than a crime.
Making a drug illegal provides opportunity for criminals to make money and one could wonder how crimes committed to obtain money to fund a habit may become less.
Prison numbers would be down I expect and less may need to be spent on police.
Drug abuse is the problem be the drug legal or not...well consumption in excess is the problem.
I can have a drink but I don't need one every day...many do.
Alex

[AstralTraveller]

My understanding is that in Australia the consumption of the legal drugs alcohol and tobacco is falling while the consumption of illegal drugs is rising. It's pretty hard to have a reasoned conversation with someone while calling them a criminal.

BTW I heard on TV some American street slang drug advice: "bake and wake". It means: "smoke cannabis and don't die of a heroin overdose". It strikes me that it's all very well to tell kids to stay straight but when that advice has a snowflake's chance it's better to direct them towards something that has less potential for a catastrophic outcome.

[Visionary]

Alex,

I doubt anyone using drugs for the first time desires to be in the position where they have a dirty needle off their arm, while poised on the edge of a filthy Public Toilet. Drug addiction is a medical/social issue and needs to be addressed as a medical problem.
Responses to Opioids vary widely, some suffering chronic pain can vary their dosage of Opioids from virtually zero, to heavy doses, precisely reflecting their actual perceived pain level. Whilst others suffering from chronic pain only need a whiff of the stuff and they are ingesting ever escalating dosages, dosages that fail to reflect their actual level of perceived pain rather dosages that reflect their level of addiction.
The above explains why I believe we need to address all drug addiction (alcohol, tobacco etc:) as a medical issue. What's more, I also believe that Morbid Obesity should be treated as a medical condition and lap band surgery and other surgical remedies to Morbid Obesity should be provided under Medicare.
I am a Liberal-Conservative, I have an abhorrence of reckless Public spending and on the surface of would appear a "least likely" advocate of the Public provision of Drug treatment (obesity) however, the long-term cost of carrying large number of addicts is extraordinarily high, so.... just address the issue asap and provide the services necessary to assist those addicted to drugs to regain their rightful place within mainstream society.

[xelasnave]

David on the issues you cover you have my vote.
Alex

[xelasnave]

Obesity...I can not understand how someone can let themselves become fat..mind you I have a little fat now because I get no exercise but for folk who can exercise I can't understand how they can let fattness overtake them.

I had started back with my exercise program and then got the shingles recovered and then the flu and have only started exercise again within the last week.

I have a fat young friend I can't say anything but she does not seem to care. It is sad.

I really think eating is like a drug for her satisfying more than hunger.

I have a friend who is a big drinker he can drink as much as me on a bender but every day.. Only fifty and you can see him going downhill.
What can you do..nothing.
Alex

[graham.hobart]

In the U. S there are powerful vested interests at play in the pharmaceutical world, plus there are financial obstacles to treating pain non pharmacologically. If you don't have money or insurance you cannot see a pain psychologist or physio or a pain specialist.
Lack of basic social support feeds into the problem, a situation we in Australia and the those in the UK should heed. I read yesterday that in the UK you had a higher chance of dying from cancer than from graduating from Uni.
We take our families and social network for granted, but when you do not have these, and rely on the state, and the state offers none, then you truly having nothing and no where to turn.
It's a pretty poor reflection on a society when you have to call your insurer before you call the ambulance/doctor.
:sadeyes: Graz

[xelasnave]

All medical treatment should be free...nothing less.

I have been reading on the income of various sports stars...multiple millions.

Entertainers similar.

And yet while such is acceptable those... who we can only call lesser humans because that is the way society treats them... can die because they can not afford treatment... That's the US approach it seems..and yet Cuba that vile backward country seems to treat folk with decency and compassion.

The basic premise of Christianity is that one should love your fellow man...well yes if he is rich and famous but if he is poor he is to be hated for failing to make it big.
An ant colony even does a better job of caring about tribe members.
Alex

[AndrewJ]

Gday Alex


I think the providers of the medicine should get an acceptable wage.
The problem is the "corporate" medicine model in the US allows people to charge whatever they can get, and we are heading that way here.
Better to have 100 patients willing to pay a million each for care than a million ones willing to pay $100.
Just looking at the top paying jobs in the US, its a subjective view for sure, but the no of "health/medicine" type jobs in the max remunerations is scary, and they all send "patients" to their mates as required until the patients pockets are empty.

Andrew

[xelasnave]

Maybe I should get back to drafting the rules for society under my proposed new world order.
Equality will be the primary consideration.
I have no problem with folk being rich but when folk live or die based on the money such an inequity should be addressed.
I can see signs that we may follow the US model and that will be wrong.
I hope they can sort things out I don't want to intervene.
Alex

[LewisM]

Viva la Revolution Alex, da comrade? :)

As a FAT MORBIDLY OBESE person, I can readily admit it is entirely of my own doing. I don't drink (maybe twice a month if that, sometimes MONTHS without a single drop of alcohol), I don't smoke (never have), I don't do drugs and I REFUSE to take medication. My cholesterol is lower than a 20 year olds, and I still pass Class 1 aviation medicals without a hitch (though now need reading glasses - my distance vision is VERY sharp). Blood pressure is normal to lower than normal (figure that one out medicos!), and my BGL is NON-diabetic (though one quack tried putting me on diabetic tablets because he THOUGHT I was diabetic and insisted I should be!).

I had to take Oxycodone for a severely dislocated shoulder combined with paralysis-potential kyphosis - it had NIL effect on me in a psychotropic or hallucinatory way, and only made me talk more than usual (which must have meant I had verbal diarrhoea!). I stopped taking it cold turkey after 3 weeks, and had NO side effects whatsoever - nil dependency, nil cravings. They then prescribed me Endone and Lyrica, and I too stopped taking them cold turkey. Tried codeine - narp. The pain - then well and truly chronic was just the same with or without - I am obviously highly resistant to opiates and barbiturates. It plagued my life for 3 years - I just learned to live with it. It never subsided, it was always there, especially in my sleep. Then, one day it stopped hurting, the nerve tingling stopped and full muscle function returned. By itself. No intervention. Probably because I FORCED myself to use it. In fact, I find myself using my left arm more than ever before.

I probably should be dead according to all the quacks that prescribed every damned thing under the Sun. I guess I am not. I now simply refuse medication.

Also bear in mind some people do gain weight and not through any fault of their own. My step mother has Cushing's Syndrome - she looks perpetually bloated, moon-faced and outright fat. No matter the diet. Sure, most fat farts like myself are self-induced, whether they want to admit it or not (I cannot stand those who are angrily defensive about it - your doing, deal with it fatso!) but it is that person's decision one way or the other. Don't judge them, and at the same time do not pity them. Addictions are a personal doing - be it food, alcohol, nicotine, drugs - so it is up to that person to make the decision what they do.

Now, as to those Tabulam hippie sailors...

[xelasnave]

Lewis there will be no revolution I feel that would be a sheer waste of time I would go straight to the reign of terror.
There will of course be no prisons as all crimes will be a capital offence.
Thank you for sharing your experience and as always I find your input delightful.
Although the following will show my right wing tilt I think I should outline my new world order as to education and religion.
Education free but only one school..no private schools or anything that may erode equality of learning.
All religion superstition and black magic will be a crime...the government will be small because there won't be many left after the reign of terror.
Tabulam will of course become the National capital and all shipping will be sail power only.
Alex

[casstony]

On the subject of obesity, while acknowledging that habits are hard to break, if bread, pasta and sweets are eliminated from the diet the kilo's will fall away.

Eat as much vegetables (excluding potato), fruit and lean meat as you need to feel full. After a few weeks the cravings for sugar and bread are gone and you can reintroduce modest amounts once the desired amount of weight has been lost.

[xelasnave]

Yes...eating sweets.. having too much bread.. Crimes for sure.
But only red or green vegetables.
Alex

[ChrisV]

Medication is not the problem in itself. The problem is the type of pain and how it is diagonsed/treated.
- The big problem pain is chronic pain and that is not always fixed by opioids. There others drugs and other treatment options.
- Compounding that, your average GP does not understand chronic pain. Or that they should refer patients with intractable to pain specialists - just as they refer to cardiologists etc etc. Is easier to hand over the drugs.

And wait till I get on my soap box ...

[xelasnave]

When I had the business I employed a guy who was previously a medical sales rep.
He told me some stories about the incentives that were offered to GPs which no doubt would not go on these days.
But it seemed strange to me that such things went on in the world
Alex

[Renato1]

According to the Tucker Carlson Tonight program on Fox News (which has been following this issue intensely), the opiate addiction epidemic in the USA started when under the Obama administration changes were made to how the drugs were prescribed. Previously, Doctors had to prescribe the opiates, but with the new rules, big pharmacies could prescribe them as well as the Doctors. And the prescriptions soared under the new regime.

We haven't done such a silly thing in Australia, so I don't expect the epidemic to take off here.

Funnily enough, as bad luck would have it, a disc in my back disappeared at the beginning of March, resulting in my being on Targin 20mg (equal to four slow release Endones of 5mg Oxycodone) twice a day for eight weeks till my back operations took place. And I had to live day and night on my bean bag, since I couldn't sit, stand or walk for more than a few minutes. The initial drugs I got from the GP were codiene and Tramadol, which were totally useless. The Doctor in hospital said that Targin and Lyrica are the drugs that work for bad back pain - and he was right - I could brush my teeth standing up without being in total agony after using them.

After the operations, I was on the two Targins a day plus five or six Endones a day for another three weeks (i.e. equivalent to 13 to 14 Endones a day). Then I eventually went to one 20mg Targin a day for a few more weeks, without which it would have been impossible to do the out-patient rehab physiotherapy execrcises. Then I dropped to 10mg Targins, till I took my last one about two weeks ago, when I switched to the lower powered Tramadols. One problem during that period was that I would forget to take the pills, and wind up with lots of leg and back pain before being forced to take them.

At the moment I'm puzzling over whether I am an opiate addict, as every so often I REALLY need the pain-killers, though that coincides with pain from my having done some difficult exercise or activity, as I push myself trying to get back to normal. Anyhow, my intention is to do what my doctors tell me, namely to keep dropping the dosage of pain-killers as the level of pain drops, and see what happens.

Regards,
Renato

[xelasnave]

Hi Renato
Thank you for sharing your experience and I must say that I am sorry to hear that things have not been the best.
However it would seem yours is a case where there is genuine need and I don't think you should worry too much...just get better.
My only thought would be to caution you on trying to do too much..rest may be the best thing.
I wish you all the best for the future and hope you achieve a full recovery.
Alex

[casstony]

Slowly weaning off is the way to avoid excessive symptoms, but if you only need the drugs intermittently you're not addicted.

My wife's side of the family has bad backs and a few (successful) fusions. The doctors recommended walking, swimming and laying down during the lengthy recovery and to avoid sitting. No bending or lifting at all.

[Renato1]

Thanks very much Alex.
It pretty much depends which procedure one has. Some require heaps of rest and no heavy lifting, whereas I had no restrictions from day one - and the Rehab staff try push one to the point of soreness, but not to the point of pain, which makes one useless for exercises the next day. And I've been doing that since I came home, as when I push too hard, because of the subsequent pain, rest becomes automatic for the next day or two.

I am now infinitely better off than before I had the operations, and count my lucky stars. Had this happened to me say 30 years ago when such operations weren't routine, my life would effectively have been over.
Cheers,
Renato

[Renato1]

Thanks Tony,
While for most of that time I could skip the drugs without problem, more recently I noticed that on some days I suddenly and inexplicably get very cold and sleepy, and have to go off to bed. I'm not sure if that's a sign of addiction or not. Regardless, I keep trying to increase the time between having to take the pills.

Yes, sitting is the worst activity I had, which made using my computer a very quick activity. My bean bag has been the best thing I had, as there was always a position on it that minimized or eliminated pain.

The activity which caused me the most grief was splitting wood. I have only just now gotten to the point where I can split it without having significant pain later.
Regards,
Renato

[xelasnave]

Renato...
Splitting wood !!!!
I can't imagine any thing worse.
Talk about do or die approach.
Buy a block splitter.
Alex

[Sconesbie]

That's why I think Tasmania seems to grow a lot of opium poppies. Besides the fact there is good money in it for the farmers, the world supply is asking more and more. Last year the Victorian government were applying for licenses to grow opium poppies. This was to the disgust of Tasmanian farmers.

Some one once told me: Pharmaceutical companies don't make cures, they make customers.


Regards
Scott

[Renato1]

It's been darn cold here Alex.
Woodsplitting was my priority.
Next priority is being able to lift my 8" telescope and take it outside.
Cheers,
Renato

[OICURMT]

Regarding the opioid crisis in the USA, Steve Hilton recently gave a report on his segment "Swamp Watch" on Fox News.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5499431447001/?playlist_id=5452746184001#sp=show-clips

[xelasnave]

Look into a block splitter, motor driven, they are worth it.
You mention lifting your scope, I spent some time last night planning for new gear, a 12 inch astrograph on a eq 8 but it hit me I could not assemble it.
I think it may be 80mm refractor if I am to get real.
The gear you can get now...if only I was fit...I need a youth restoration drug.
And the new observatory may be only a canvas cover.
I am at Tabulam for a while and last night got to sit outside and it was terrific to see the night sky so dark here its a pity I can't be up here full time these days.
Good luck with everything.
Alex

[xelasnave]

Thanks for the link.

Alex

[Orionskies]

Hello FAT Tax anyone. Revenue raised can be used to subsidize fresh fruit and veg. The people will respond, anything to save a buck saving billions in medical costs down the track...

Julian

[xelasnave]

Yes but give it a couple of months so I can get back to normal.

You know those signs on rides...you have to be this tall to go on this ride..I have often thought of doing a sign...you have to be thinner than this...and stick it on the front door at Maccas.

A tax on soft drinks to curb consumption...it seems many folk get fat because of soft drink.

Alex

[rrussell1962]

There is doubtless a lot of unnecessary prescribing of powerful painkillers. Having said that a few years ago I found out the hard way that empty swimming pools and rib bones were not a happy combination. I was very glad of the painless haze that Endone gave me. No side effects thanks to the over the counter drug that I was advised to take with the Endone. Without the 3 A's, anaesthetic, antiseptic and antibiotics life would be nasty, brutish and short. I had injuries that would possibly have killed me slowly 200 years ago. After a couple of weeks I thought that for the first time in my life I understood addiction, looked at the remaining packets, got my wife to drive me to the Doctor, and handed them over the counter.

[xelasnave]

Mental note..make sure water is in pool before diving.
Alex

[el_draco]

Cold in Frankston?
Ha ha ha ha!!! :lol:
There was 15mm ice in my wheel barrow this morning, and it was still there at 3:00pm !

[Orionskies]

... I think that one's called the sugar tax. We can pump that revenue into Snowy Hydro 2.0 .... Sugar free water for all !!

Julian :)

[Renato1]

Thanks. A sales lady at Bunnings mentioned electric wood splitters. I may look into them, as I didn't know they existed.

When I was working, my joy was taking an 80mm refractor and later a 25X100 pair of binoculars to a really dark site outside of Benalla. The 80mm refractor was good, but the binoculars showed scores of tiny galaxies by just skimming around Virgo. So an inexpensive 100mm refractor at low power would be magical at your site.
Regards,
Renato

[Renato1]

Brrrrr. Anyhow, I've lost 20kgs in the last year and a half. I really feel the cold nowadays. Not sure how I'd go in your neck of the woods now that I've lost all that insulation.
Cheers,
Renato

[xelasnave]

Renato
A mate offerred me one teal cheap.
I will ask if he still has it and what he wants for it...hardely if ever used.. and then we need a member who can drop it down...
Anyways I will see what I can do.
Re viewing I really like my 80mm binos prefer them over my 12 inch.
Alex

[AstralTraveller]

Would that be the Grey Teal or the Chestnut Teal? And what's the use of just one? :D

[casstony]

I used one of the cheap wood splitters once and it struggled on the tougher blocks - probably ok for modest sized blocks of Stringy.

[xelasnave]

That should read... very reasonably priced.
I called him and he will take $300.

If you are mildly interested I will inspect it , and send you some photos.

Alex

[AstralTraveller]

I could be quite interested, depending on the photos. Please don't pm them, your photographic skills should be shared. However I don't think I could agree to $300. Would $450 be OK?

[xelasnave]

Well let's wait for Renato to consider the matter.

The item is in Sydney and aI am currently at Tabulam.
I won't be back in Sydney until the end of the month and will not be able to inspect or take photos until then.
Alex