What a Sad World

[leon]

Hi guys, well i am a bit upset, and i do not know how other Grand Dads cope.:shrug:

I was out with my 10 year old Grand Daughter, I love her to bits,we were just doing stuff in the park and enjoying our company.:)

I was sitting down on a log an watched her do kid stuff, she then ran up to me and nearly knocked me over with a big hug, and i responded with a pat on the bum, as she hugged me.

There was nothing in it, but it was spotted by some other person an i was accused of being a dirty old man. :sadeyes: :sadeyes: :mad2:

I have had a gut full of all those filthy pedophiles, :mad2: those people who prey on young people. :mad2:

And it is sad that i cant hug my dear grand child in public, I am very upset, I love them all and cant show affection

What a sad world :sadeyes:

Leon :thumbsup:

[Kunama]

I have a three year old granddaughter who is with me three days a week, we go to parks, we throw stones into the lake, we shop together, we share hugs and ice creams, I will protect her with my life yet often I too see the 'concerned' looks and stares from people as we walk by holding hands or hugging.

The sad truth is that the predators are out there, there is little or no deterrent value in our legal system, with bail and parole being treated as a right not a privilege so perhaps one can understand some of the concerns of other parents. One has to wonder though why do people need to attach a sexual connotation to any innocent contact between loving parents, grandparents and their children.
The time between grandparents and their grandchildren is a special gift and bond so don't despair Leon, you're grandchildren will cherish these times as much we do.

[Atmos]

It really is a sad world at times.
I've heard of single dads with young daughters being vilified by women (mothers) for going into parents rooms to change nappies and the like.

The sentiment behind this is why I chose not to become a physics/chemistry teacher, wouldn't surprise me if it is a reason why there is a real shortage for male teachers. Because we're a male around younger students we're automatically deemed a potential pedophile.

[traveller]

On a happier note, my kids' primary school was audited recently, and the independent auditor mentioned that it was "nice to see kids giving their teachers hugs at the end of the day"
I am not sure if that's for male teachers also, but the school has a few young male teachers and they are all terrific!
Bo

[el_draco]

The sad truth is that we MEN have been demonised by vested interests. A sick perverted few have been used as an excuse to label us all, and yet, the same sick few of the other gender have excuses galore... and are treated differently by both society and law. :screwy:

So stand up to them!! The research, for what its worth, says that men are a hugely powerful influence in a child's life, be it boy or girl, so name it up; I do. :mad2:

Anyone who looks sideways at me for being a father, and eventually grandfather, I hope, are going to get a backhand to the face, with a closed hand. :argue:

[csb]

What you said hardly seems to have any substance. I've found all women and children accept men at face value. And i haven't seen any general portraying of men as being perverts nor as untrustworthy around children by the media - including those outlets that cater to women's interests.

Feminists and lesbeans don't even sprout anti-male propaganda.

I think the only males that may possibly be stereotyped as perverts would be catholic priests (high-profile entertainers would be in 2nd place ;)).

[MortonH]

Shrug it off as best you can, Leon. Some people have nothing better to do than look for fault in others that are happy.

I wouldn't really care what a stranger said to me but presumably this happened right in front of your grand daughter? If so I hope she's not upset as well.

[astroron]

You are dead wrong, children have been brought up around here to fear men and stay clear of them.
The mantra around here is children don't talk to people they don't know, especially men.
Since the abduction of Daniel Morcombe many years ago that is what parents are teaching their children.
When I go for my walks down my country roads I give children a wide berth
and they me., even though I have lived in the area for 25 odd years.
It is a really sad state of affairs:(
I know how you feel Leon.
Cheers

[Wavytone]

I think it is worse now than it was in years past.

I'm very careful with our boy as he's very distinctive being a Eurasian mix and draws a lot of unwanted attention.

When I'm out shopping with him without my wife we get all sorts of odd remarks and I've been challenged on more than 1 occasion as to whether I'm the father. I'm just waiting for the day the cops drag me off to a police station "on suspicion".

[raymo]

I find this thread distressing; I too have a young grandchild, and never
take him anywhere without my wife being present.
The saddest part of all this is that the percentage of paedophiles in
the community is no greater than it used to be when I was a young
boy almost 80 yrs ago, there have always been men who are
attracted to children. Instant worldwide communication, plus my
pet hate, social media, have caused this fear that there is a paedophile
lurking around every corner. The internet has, of course, allowed some of them to gravitate to child porn websites, and even arrange the hire of children in Asia. One of the downsides to the internet, along with cyber bullying.
Like probably many old f---s I REALLY
dislike this day and age, preferring the 50s and early 60s.
raymo

[tempestwizz]

Buy the 'I'm their grandad' t-shirt!

[netwolf]

Leon that is so sad to here , my dad is no more with us and he loved my daughter to bits. If someone did that to him I'd be having some strong words. Being vigilant is one thing being paranoid is another. I am not sure the world has changed much but people are just more aware of it know to the extend of paranoia. But equally when accused people need to be set straight, else our inaction Leeds to worse behaviour.

What next we're a sign to say that's my kid or grand kid. Seriously. I'm glad I was not there. There is a nice way to approach things if u suspect something I could just start a casual conversation. See if ur concerns are warranted.

Say helo and talk to ppl. Don't jump to conclusions.

[blink138]

that is extremely distressing for you leon!
if it were not for your little girl there, i would have been tempted to knock a couple of teeth loose, at the very least tell them to mind their own bloody business!!
this world is going to the dogs
pat

[bojan]

Our community is getting sick mind.... Nobody trust anybody else.
Is it because those "good-doers" are trying to prove something to themselves?

[alan meehan]

sorry to hear this Leon I too iam a grandfather and my granddaughter loves to go shopping and to park with me she is 5 yrs old we have good times together and I wouldn't change it for quids and bugger anyone who thinks bad of it,as MATT says and I agree the time between grandparents and grandkids is specialand if anyone were to question it tell them to bugger off
AL

[AussieTrooper]

Yep. Sad. And it's only getting worse. This kind of attitude has seen the number of male teachers drop to near zero in many schools. Men are too scared to take the job, as they know that one day they will almost certainly be accused of something.

[Peter Ward]

Jaysusswepped! I absolutely despise these "touchy feely" types for twisting perfectly normal behaviour into something perverted.

When my own son was a toddler, I was often flying to Heathrow and one occasion while strolling through the cabin, noticed a little guy giving his mum some grief and making a fast-break down the aisle (away from mum)

He wasn't too sure about this big bloke in a uniform headed toward him.

Without thinking, I scooped him up, put my pilot's hat on him, and returned him to mum...letting him know he had to look after her.

Both Mum and the little fella were delighted! (they made me stay for a photo-op).

And I'd do it again... a pox on any twisted pervert who thinks this is unacceptable behaviour.

[LewisM]

Heck, I get weird idiots looking at me in snide ways all the time with my 3 year old on my shoulders (she loves riding up there). I just ignore the cretins.

Same daughter also insists on kissing on the lips - so be it! But again, you should see the looks...anyone would think there was tongue involved or something! Sheesh. Whatever - look after your own kids who you happily let run 30 metres ahead of you in car parks...THAT is way more irresponsible than me and my daughter showing affection.

[el_draco]

You must live in a wonderful bubble mate.

- Every level of government acts against men.

- There are offices for the status of women, but none for men. There are equal opportunity rules for women, that discriminate against men. Women MUST be hired for some positions even if they are incompetent and there are competent men available. Its everywhere.

- The Family court system acts against men. You can be removed from your life/assets at the whim of your wife and with absolutely NO recourse.
She can go into court and lie black and blue UNDER OATH but there's ZERO consequences when confronted with documentary evidence that proves categorically that she perjured herself.

- The Criminal law system treats female sex predators differently to male sex predators. Go read a few cases. Start with "Casey Lee Sullivan", who got 2 years for doing 3 of her students, and "Sarah Jayne Vercoe" who was eligible for parole after 2 years, after doing 5 of her male students. If a male had done what these two had done, he'd be a lifer..

- A male who assault his wife is a wife abuser, a female who assaults her husband is acting in "self defence". Remember the constant bombardment of adverts about men beating up their female partners? Women are just as likely to assault their kids and partners and regularly kill their kids and they get treated completely differently by both media and law. A scumbag chucks his daughter of the west gate bridge and its "Hang draw and quarter him in public"(Which I agree with). A woman drowns three kids in a car and, "she had serious mental health issues, PMS, PMT, PND...", yadda yadda yadda.

- The "Child support system" acts against men. Remember the "Dead Beat dads" campaign. Your income gets screwed and she can lie her arse off and never be prosecuted...

- In my professional life, I am under constant scrutiny whenever I have contact with a female client.

- I cant offer a female a lift in my car, even if its pouring rain/snowing or blisteringly hot lest I be accused of being the next Milllat.

- The media portrays us as morons in advertising, or we are sexist, misogynistic, opportunistic sexual predators in most drivel it produces.

- If I discipline my children, I can lose them at the whim of some overzealous wanker.

All this is so that we have a safer, fairer, more just society. Do you think its working? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

The hypocrisy is mind bending and I've had enough of it, hence my signature. If you have sons... be worried, be VERY VERY worried.

[raymo]

I second every word Rom.
raymo

[sil]

Leon, I was on my way to work along the lakeshore openly taking photos of feathered birds, nowhere near anybody else. A group of joggers (all female) stopped near by and abused me of being a pedophile and said they were going to fetch the police. Yeah makes me want to hit these ignorant ^&***^^^s and the politicians and media outlets who've brainwashed people into seeing another human being as either a pedophile, terrorist or both...

...then they wonder how serial killers get started.

[LewisM]

Remind me not to walk along the edges of the Molonglo or Burley-Griffon with a camera - have wanted to many of these chilly mornings.

[SkyWatch]

Hi Leon,

Back to the first post: I am so very happy to hear of a loving grandfather who is being a good, positive role model to his granddaughter! Children need to receive affection and know that it is OK for males to express positive, loving feelings that are not sexual in any way.

Reading between the lines (not very difficult!) I can hear a lot of hurt people responding to your initial comments, and I agree with them: the "politically correct" approach can be bewildering and very hurtful! We certainly have a long way to go as a society.

I think it is important (and a step forward in society) that people are aware of the possibility of abuse, and that they take it seriously- but it is sad that the pendulum has swung so far that just being a male around children is treated as suspicious. Most of my professional life has been spent working with children, and I am very aware of the many problems that we face. I remember the first time I attended a tutorial group for a Sociology subject called "Family, State and Society". I was the only male in a group of about 20: and the vibe was "It's a man: kill!!!" It turned out that every one of those women had been abused in some way by a male, and it took a lot of listening before I was able to get past their justifiable fears.

A very sad thing for me is that there are times that I can see when a child desperately needs a hug, but I can't give it, so I have to come up with other, non physical ways of giving them the affirmation they need...

Unfortunately many children have been abused and are being abused, and have no idea of what it means to be loved and respected and enabled to achieve their potential in a caring environment. It is a privilege to be able to provide such an environment and role model for children, and it is only by doing so that we will achieve true change for the good in our society.

Can I just make a plea that if we (i.e.: grandfathers, fathers, male role models in any way...) come across or are vilified by the sort of prejudice that Leon encountered that we don't counter it by angry responses (even if we are feeling like it!!!) - because that potentially negates the good we have been doing for that child, and justifies the prejudice in the eyes of the accuser. So well done Leon, and keep up the good work!

I, for one, will continue to show my granddaughter the affection she needs: and I will hug her in public if that is the appropriate response. If someone calls me to task for doing this, I will either respectfully move on, or (if appropriate) thank them for their concern.

- Dean

[el_draco]

My last encounter with this crap was from an aggressive female and I responded calmly with a statement that made her pause, "Feminism exists because men allow it to exist... and that position is subject to change", which is a basic fact. Pendulums swing both ways...

I'm done with taking it on the chin :tasdevil:

[leon]

Thank you so much, I read all your responses and then read them again.:)

My darling girl is safe when we go out, and if we need a hug so be it,

Stuff em :mad2:

Leon :thumbsup:

[PeterM]

Onya Leon! Never ever stop hugging your grandkids even in public Leon.

[el_draco]

'Ave at em!:thumbsup:

[alan meehan]

I couldn't believe what I was reading on the net today about a bloke in America that found a lost little girl in the park and was taking her around to see if he could find her parents asking people if she belong to them then up from behind himm comes the girls father and belts the guy up calling the police ,the police try to explain to the miss guilded father who was not looking after his daughter at all,that the man was only trying to help .so what did the father do put the guys photo on social media and called him a pervert the guy has hade to leave town because of the death threats could you believe that
AL

[leon]

Alan that is un believable and so wrong, the poor fellow, i bet if were a female things would be different.

Leon

[el_draco]

That's nothin! I reckon you could walk from Melbourne to Sydney on the graves of fathers who have been killed by the family court in this country, including blokes I knew!

Read it... and bleed: http://relatingtomen.com/blog/if-men-were-whales/ :shrug:

[leon]

Thank you Rom, I did read it and followed through

Leon

[04Stefan07]

That is terrible, Leon.

The world has changed a lot, even from when I was growing up in the 90s it's a different place today!

Some people mate, I swear. It only takes a few to ruin it for all of us.

Ignore them mate and enjoy your time with your granddaughter.

[csb]

Many men who have gone through divorce feel victimised and that the system favours women. It is certainly understandable these guys feel so unfairly treated when they are forced to hand over usually at least half their assets.

However, it's such a bore when these guys start acting the victims and raving about a system that discriminates against men. These ramblings seem to only be enthusiastically listened to by other men who have been through similar or by those who abused their ex.

We live in a system built by men. Maybe that's the problem.

[el_draco]

You are completely deluded. Here is one little example for you. A woman decides, for what ever reason, that she does not want to be in a marriage anymore. So, she goes to the bank and cleans out your accounts. She then goes to the police and alleges domestic violence. The magistrate issues a 30 day restraining order. You get served that restraining order either while you are at work, or when you get home to an empty house. You are arrested if you try to contact your children, for breaching the restraining order. You are now potentially broke and living on the street.

One month later, you go to court to defend yourself and get access to your children. You are told the matter will be referred to the Family court and you MIGHT get a hearing in a year. If you are lucky, you'll see your children 2 days in 14. In the meantime... she has established a "status quo" where you have been removed from your life. When the matter finally gets heard in court, her legal aid lawyer reiterates that the status quo has been established and the Family Court, "acting in the best interests of the children", maintains it. She NEVER has to prove any accusation she makes; she gets away with perjury, you lose everything; children, home and a sizeable chunk of your income until your children get to 18 years of age. You live in poverty and have no say in how the money that is taken from your income is spent. She, gets to live it up. She gets to be a vindictive bit*ch whenever she wants and withholds access to your children... It happens ALL THE TIME. Take her to court and wait a year to get any response, which is usually completely meaningless.

You wonder why men kill themselves in droves and are increasingly killing their ex-wives and children? Put yourself in the shoes of those who get done over every year, tens of thousands, and pray you don't join them. It is in deed, a VERY SAD WORLD.

Before preaching to others about how boring it is, go get a dose of reality and learn some facts.

[Kunama]

Spoken like someone who has zero experience of how the system really operates........ having dealt with a lot of domestic situations in 21 years of policing, I have seen how the system "works".
I assume you don't have children...
Picture this scenario: (It has happened !!! ) You are walking along with your child in a shopping centre when you child walks a few metres away and is scooped up by a drug addicted female in her twenties, you rush to grab your child but she yells: " Help this pedophile is trying to take my child...." the two guys nearby knock you to the ground and the druggie disappears into the crowd. Only the fact that a man standing nearby saw what happened and stopped the woman running off saves your child.....

Keep your kids within your arm's reach !!!

[strongmanmike]

The Narrative in Australia around domestic violence and family violence (they are different things) gets twisted and these terms are interchanged all the time to make an argument sound better.

In Australia, mothers kill more children than fathers do.

Australia's worst serial child killer is a woman

Australia's worst multiple child killer is a woman

Many men are victims of family violence and homicide

Many women are perpetrators of family violence and homicide

These people do not form part of the National narrative around Family Violence and this creates a lack of understanding and prevents the full extent of the associated problems from being addressed properly.

No one should be ignored simply because they don't fit in with your message.

Mike

[FlashDrive]

That is so true....

[Renato1]

You don't mention the gender of the person doing the false accusations. I'd be interested to know, as it has relevance as to the mindset of who has it in for grandfathers.
Regards,
Renato

[sil]

Yep, also try to explain to her the actions of others and why they are inappropriate too. So she doesn't learn to immitate them herself. I dont have my own children but have been around many in my life, used to babysit, and these days i've become attached to some neighbours who've been helpful in my time of need and I love their girls dearly. They are very well balanced individuals (I find it easy to dislike children who are selfish and demanding) but at 2 and 5 these two are far better people than most adults I know. But also being a single disabled male I am painfully aware of the looks I get from others if I am interacting with the girls. I don't try to deamand affection from them but if they come to me for a hug they can have one, if they have akward questions to ask I try my best to give them an unbiased straight forward answer. I find if you act or talk childish to children thats what they take on board and behave, but if you talk to them as you do other adults they respond in a more mature way. When they ask those awkward innocent questions dont avoid them, try to give a clear simple answer responsible answer, and where possible try to take them through a process where they can work out or find the answer for themselves. My biggest worries for my neighbours girls will be primary and highscool, especially fads and peer pressure, I'd hate to see them change into horrible greedy people. I probably wont live long enough to see though and I agree feminism pendulum has swung too far, many females dont see their discrimination in what they do and say towards females is itself sexist. Sexism is one gender discriminating against another. That simple. No mention of male or female or transgender or whatever. So yes in the past it was mostly males against females but now we're getting females against males. Its going to take ever individual human being to change it, not laws, as its a cultural thing, something we learn from our parents growing up, something we learn from our teachers and peers. It will take generations to dillute and remove but it starts with every individual to think about their actions and words (using gender neutral terms where gender is not the subject). And don't think someone did or din't do something because of your gender, you can be dislike by others for other reasons or perhaps someone else was actually the better person for the job instead of you. Anyone who thinks their gender is enough reason to be given a job or payrise has much bigger problems they should seek councilling on.

I'm not say discrimination doesnt happen, being disabled I get it every day working in a government department that makes big claim on being tolerant when they aren't, but when you dont get what you want don't immediately play the discrimination card.

[sil]

Sorry for the rant, but Leon I'm with you "Stuff 'em", just keep being the best role model you can be and damn what anyone else thinks.

[leon]

Rom after reading your response, you are spot one mate.

Leon

[raymo]

Rom's last post almost exactly describes my son in law's position.
raymo

[Boozlefoot]

Having previously been involved in a police force I have had the unfortunate opportunity "to see over both sides of the fence". However, when my own divorce was finalised (many years ago) I was endlessly hounded for child maintenance by the nameless government lackeys, trying to garner my meagre wages for many months. It culminated in written threats of imprisonment if I failed to comply. I invited them to come and arrest me as threatened, and it was only then that they realised I HAD 100% CUSTODY of the children and was raising them on my own. The offices in "control" of these situations do seem to have a tunnel vision with regard to marriage breakdowns and unfortunately it IS gender biased.

[leon]

That is unbelievable :rolleyes: it just shows how stupid, and cant work out their box some agencies are, anything out of the ordinary they become puzzled at what to do next, until in your case it hits them over the head. :shrug:

Leon :thumbsup:

[csb]

There have been some clear examples, posted here, of how the courts appear to support the woman against the man. So now I see how the courts appear to favour the woman. Easy to see how a bloke could be driven to despair.

However I think this is not so much the system itself but the woman using the courts/police/legal aid to her advantage against the man. So something is wrong with the system when it can be used to ruin someone.

Another issue brought up, in an early post, is that there is purposeful demonising of men "by vested interests". To me it seems that the prevalence of this accusation from men is more common than any actual demonising by any groups. I can't say I've noticed any significant orchestrating of anti-male propaganda.

This stuff is similar to other conspiracy theories and usually given with little supporting evidence or the stated evidence causes you to ask, "How would he know that?".

Just my thoughts.

[raymo]

It is quite possible that Craig doesn't move in the circles where he is likely
to come across this demonising. Over the years I have had the misfortune
to be closely involved with social workers, womens' refuges, and the like,
and can say that I have been on the receiving end of VERY thinly veiled
hostility from a number of women employed [or volunteering] in those
areas, social workers in particular. Many of them are young women fresh
out of uni with still wet ink on their degrees, and who have little experience
of the world out there. The older female social workers are much less
hostile.
raymo

[Nikolas]

As a teacher I find this comment rather offensive ranking on the absurd. There are less male teachers in PRIMARY schools as they tend to gravitate to the high schools. Seriously sometimes I think our own paranoia and overthinking is causing many issues.

[Orionskies]

Some of the derogetry attitudes posted in this thread towards women are a disgrace. It's attitudes like this that turn to violents. Men and women should be able to stand up for their rights without the language of violence.

Julian.

[csb]

You're correct Raymo, I don't work in those areas. You are saying there are individual women, in welfare & community agencies who show bias against men. These individuals work in all areas. But I would think they don't usually organise.

I may be wrong. However, I work in health care, which is predominantly female, and there no groups that show anti-male tendencies.

Rom's post talks about active conspiracies against men:

[raymo]

Julian, What I was describing has nothing to do with standing up for their rights;. they exhibit varying amounts of hostility toward men in general. I'm not saying that they are organised, just that those organisations seem to have an inordinate number of such women
in their ranks.
raymo

[Orionskies]

I was addressing the posts and men's attitudes on a whole not an individual post but thank you for replying.

Perhaps the agro towards men by women in these organizations is just the sad fact that it is MEN who are aggressive and violent towards each other and woman. And these woman probably falsely carry that attitude through their professional lives and apply it to all men.

What I find sad it is often the children who are over looked just look at all these posts. Hardly any addressed the fact that it was Leon grandchild who was most vulnerable and may of bore the brunt of this over zealous lady.

Julian.

[strongmanmike]

Not exclusively by a long shot, this conveniently ignores any and all violence carried out by women in a family setting, including against children, where they are in fact the main perpetrators. I have spoken to women who have freely admitted using strong violence against their partners and I have seen it with my own eyes, including trying to stab their partners in rage (not self defence), they can talk about it quite openly because they feel it is no big deal, almost funny. So no wonder violence by women is not considered in the narrative around family violence, most people, including the women to whom you refer above, just dismiss it as irrelevant... and this is wrong.

Mike

[Orionskies]

Thanks Mike. I definitely agree that not all violence is perpetrated by men. And dismissing any violence is just plain wrong. I also feel that posts that are dismissive of violence towards women are ignoring reality.

The overwhelming majority of violence is caused by men it's just the way we were created and sadly raised.

Cheers Julian

[astroron]

I watched a video on FB last week,a woman was giving a guy a thorough smacking,with punches to the head and body,also using the most violent language, and he never retaliated at all for at least three minutes
She backed him against against a wall and continued to throw punches at his head and other parts of his body.
People tried to stop her but she continued the assault.
In the end he could take no more and gave her a right to the chin which stopped her in her tracks, and she started to bawl her head off.
If it would have been me,the assault would not have gone on that long.
I have seen woman on quite a few occasions assault men, and men do nothing about it but walk away.
Women are just as capable of assault as men.
I don't condone violence by any sex,but I reserve the right of the man to defend himself.
Cheers:thumbsup:

[strongmanmike]

Good, because it is certainly the case.


Also good, because that is just basic fairness


Only partly true, being dismissive of violence towards women is certainly very wrong because it certainly happens at unacceptable levels..but the reality is that a lot of domestic and family violence is also perpetrated by women and just not reported or highlighted, or when it is reported it is dismissed as somehow different and caused by mitigating factors far more than it is for men.

A commonly held understanding in the family violence narrative, like doing abdominal crunches will make you lose weight, seems perfectly logical and infomercials tell us this on a daily basis...but this is simply not true. In the case of family and domestic violence, it is certainly a little more complicated.

There are many studies in various journals and from many places around the World that point to a different reality on many levels when it comes to domestic, relationship and family violence. It is our perceptions that cloud our judgement, it is easy to believe what we hear most often but if you actually delve in more deeply on these sorts of issues, things can start to appear different or at least your long held understandings can be challenged.

Here is one list of about 286 studies that suggests an alternative reality to the popular perceptions...perhaps they were made up..?.. but if you google each study separately they are all real and can be read for yourself :)

REFERENCES EXAMINING ASSAULTS BY WOMEN ON THEIR SPOUSES OR MALE PARTNERS: AN ANNOTATED BIBLIOGRAPHY (http://web.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm)

This is not to say that there aren't also studies that have different findings but most people would not realise that these 286 studies exist.

In the end, all I am saying is in this current push to curb family and domestic violence, understand the differences between Intimate Partner violence and Family Violence and even if they are somewhat less in number, let's not forget all the male victims of family and domestic violence, nor think that women and mothers don't perpetrate domestic and family violence, because they do and significantly so.

Mike

[Atmos]

I think it may have been the head of Vic Police a year ago that quoted some stats to the effect of:
"75% of spousal abuse is man against woman but 75% of child abuse within the family unit is by the mother."

Not an exact quote or exact numbers but the stats show that generally (as a VERY BROAD stroke) it is husbands abuse wives but mothers abuse children.

[leon]

This thread has totally gone off track, from the original post, and had nothing to do with violence toward men and/or women. :sadeyes:

It was about a little girl who was upset because her Grandad loved her. :sadeyes:

Leon :thumbsup:

[dbowie]

Leon I think we all sympathise with you and your grandaughters situation, I sure do, I too have experienced it to some extent with my nieces and nephews and it does cut deep on both sides, however even though it seems like the thread has gone off track unfortunately all the points made are pertinent to the situation namely the all too often unjust villification and strong mistrust of men overall (your original point) and their standing in the Australian community, I welcome the varience of comments because it is a snapshot of opinion and fact thought but not often seen and a conversation that must be had openly, and in a mature forum such as this I believe threads should be allowed to evolve in a positive fashion...my two cents....

[strongmanmike]

Sorry Leon for my contribution to your feeling that this thread has deviated from your original post but Brenton has summed it up pretty well I think. I see a connection between your original story and what I have highlighted. To me it relates to the perception of men in Australia and the misleading and twisting of the full story around a number of things, including the omission of important components and facts in the family and domestic violence campaign, is contributing to this.

Mike

[astroron]

Reported

[Orionskies]

Hey Mike Thanks for sharing some light in this space on this topic. It is much appreciated :).

When I think about domestic violence I'm thinking about ultimately the death of woman in the hands of men. And it is here that women are being killed at the rate of 1 every 4 days for 2016.

The facts are men are physically stronger and have an obvious advantage when it comes to a violent situation.

Hi Leon I sympathize with what your saying but your initial post seemed to be about your feelings and how upset you were about what had happened to you.

Cheers Julian