So hows your ethics going to deal with this?

[el_draco]

The Yanks have pulled out of the Paris Climate Accord. Hows that going to effect your purchasing:

1/ Refuse to by anything from that country?
2/ Challenge each company you deal with to demonstrate their sustainability and environmental protection credentials?
3/ Put on on your red-wig and say, "Its all about me"?
4/ Totally ignore it all because climate change is fake news?

:question:

[AndrewJ]

Gday Rom
Considering we are still one of the highest per capita polluters, and desperate to help others pollute more whilst we can make a buck from it ( ref current Adani debacle ), i would keep my trap shut.
Also, a lot of commentators are saying its a good thing, as it means the US cant whiteant and veto anything from within. Dunno how correct that is, but none of these "world agreements" ever seem to result in anything, so its probably just a moot problem.

Andrew

[glend]

I have noticed that already many US states, and the mentioned Mayor of Pittsburgh, have distanced themselves and their jurisdictions, from Trump's decision. Unless he enshrines the withdrawal in legislation that mandates non-compliance, many States will continue to meet Paris obligations. Getting non-complying legislation through the Congress is probably not achievable. Lets wait and see what happens.

[billdan]

I think I will stick my head in the sand and choose box No. 4. thanks

[casstony]

There are other things we can do on a personal level to tide us over until Trump is gone. From watching 'Craig Reucassel’s war on waste' I learned I can take plastic bags to Coles for recycling and from 'Michael Mosley: The Truth About Meat' I learned that we should only eat beef once per week to keep total emissions from cows moderate.

We can't control the world but we can still make a difference individually.

[traveller]

My wife is going to the US in a month. I refused to go.

[andyc]

I certainly won't be travelling to the US any time soon. The ethics of purchases is interesting- on one side, a full boycott of anything American sends a strong signal, on the other, it would be good to support those companies that are on right side of history in the climate issue. But I'm less inclined to buy American stuff after this week.

America being a corporatocracy, strengthening companies (and cities/states) that are doing the right thing despite government idiocy is perhaps a positive? Many in the business world have long moved past "is it real" as they've long worked out that it is and they need to plan for the inevitable and necessary deep carbon emission reductions. However, they don't appear to be the businesses in control of US or Aussie politicians, and the right-wing media are even further back in the dark ages...

[Orionskies]

It's a sad day for the planet but not unexpected. I think the U. S will suffer from this selfish, short sighted, Ill informed decision.

Down with the USA..... China A OK!!!! :D:D

[AndrewJ]

The only difference between the two of them is the US is openly telling the world to get stuffed, China is just doing it quietly in the background.

Andrew

[LewisM]

It's the Russians fault. Come on, let's shift the blame yet again to the Russians.

[rrussell1962]

Outrageous. I'm indignant. I shall carefully consider my moral position. Sent using Tap and Rant from my device made by a tax dodging multinational using underpaid labour with materials mined in unsafe mines in the third world.

[el_draco]

Interesting responses, for the most part, (there's always at least one, isn't there :rolleyes:). I considered a direct boycott of all things Yank in line with my refusal to buy Japanese in line with their whaling practices. The latter has cost that country, (amongst other things), a car purchase and a Tak 150mm.... and I told them so in their own newspapers. Cant handle bast*ardry for the sake of bast*ardry. :mad2:

Then, I saw the local states and corporate rebuffing and thought about the businesses I had dealt with in Yankland. A significant number offer exceptional service and products and have environmental cred. I am loathe to punish them for the actions of this corporate a*&$hole, so I've decided to challenge any purchase with the environmental ethic, and let them know I am doing it. :)

Like Bo, I am, (reluctantly), considering a family trip to the U.S. in about a year; (That may sound hypocritical but I've basically grounded myself for the last couple of decades in protest against airline pollution, and this may be the proverbial straw that kills the trip. Not such a tough prospect to contemplate, I might add).

Tony, totally agree with you on all counts and ditched meat pretty much completely a decade ago. Strangely, don't miss it a bit. :)

Fortunately, Andrew, I am not one of the "we" and I am probably on the low end of the spectrum of local polluters so I can take the moral high ground to a point. I'll take on anyone who acts like a turd in relation to the environment, which we are mere custodians of until our children take over. The A*&^holes in this country who are still trying to get Adani up are there because enough Australians place vested self interest, or apathy, in front of the greater good. Sad arses, one and all and most of them put champagne on ice yesterday and outed themselves. I hope people remember than next election.:mad2:

It's a dilemma, or maybe it's not :question:

[AndrewJ]

Gday Rom
Neither am i, but if the proposed idea was to boycott another country because of the behaviour of its leaders, then the "we" i used relates to our country and our leaders, and the "I" meant me and what i would do.
"We" are seen quite badly overseas in several respects.

Andrew

[Orionskies]

You maybe correct, but in a debate like this perceptions matter. The 2% target set at Paris is non binding it's more of an aspirational goal than a agreed contract.

This announcement today by Trump is just him consolidating his base....." You can trust me I keep my word"....:eyepop:

[casstony]

In any case you can still travel to California since they're viewed as the looney left by the rest of the country, assuming you can tolerate being packed in like sardines in economy and providing you don't offend one of the blackshirts at the airport.

Most Americans I've met are just decent, ordinary people. It's the corporations that should be considered the enemy of humanity; they've got the US by the ball_.

[skysurfer]

That is not an easy step. The whole software industry is American, so you can ditch your computers, tablets and smartphones, as all OSes installed on it are American made.

But there is good news: all US tech companies (including the OS makers Apple, Google, Microsoft) which are actually the engine of the American economy, are against the pullout.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/02/shortsighted-wrong-apple-facebook-among-tech-giants-to-reject-paris-pullout

But my way of boycott is something different : not traveling to the US for the travel and laptop ban reasons which is another Trumperialistic trick: protecting the US airlines against 'unfair' competition of Middle East airlines.

[Tropo-Bob]

Well, lets face it, when they have minus 20 degrees C in Winter, and ports are blocked by ice, they probably do not really think warming is a problem.

[AndrewJ]

Gday Julian

To most, yes, but Trump simply doesnt appear to care, even when a huge chunk of his country does. The Chinese also dont appear to care, as they know they are too big to be openly challenged.
Our pollies dont care, because we are small fry in a big pond, and it will only stay news for a day or so.
They will all still go to the right places, say the right things then go away and do what they want in the pursuit of profit at any cost.
Perhaps its a sign, but whilst watching tonights news, i saw that Ian MacDonald was finally jailed for misusing his power in office to give away mining rights to his mates. Lets hope its the first of many.

Andrew

[el_draco]

Wonder how they'll cope when the tundra lets rip with a fifty year fart.... :question:

[el_draco]

The international criminal court is starting to consider ecological criminal law. I wonder how our pollies would fare faced with an Adani case? :question:

[Orionskies]

I think bashing pollies is easier fodder for the masses, I reckon most of them work hard and believe in what they are doing. They just don't seem to be able to stay true and they drift into the 24hr spin cycle of political point scoring.

I think it's about time too for white collar crime to be taken seriously. I'm still waiting for the Bush, Blair and Howard trial in the Hague but I doubt that'll happen. :shrug:

Julian

[el_draco]

Entirely true, but they bring it on themselves through ideology and action. Take the raccoon in Yankland, and many a bozo in Oz. 99.99% of the scientific community says we are in deep doo doo... but they ignore the advice. Its kind of like going to a 1000 doctors and one of them says smoking wont kill you :question: Spineless, ill-informed dogma driven twits.

I took some solace in seeing two them sent to prison yesterday, though, of course, the sentences were manifestly inadequate. I have met, just one pollie with credibility and that's Andrew Wilkie. He stood up to Howard and has been slapping the above mentioned twits in the face ever since. Must admit, I like his style and admire his ethics... :clap:

[AussieTrooper]

The Adani situation is possibly the nadir of Australian political 'leadership'
The government was going to:

1) Lend a foreign owned mining company $800m, at a time when they won't fund a single rail project in Victoria, and can't balance the budget.
2) Hand over access to Australia's biggest coal reserve to India.
3) Allow Adani to not pay tax in Australia, by funnelling the money through the Cayman Islands (this part of the project is already set up)
4) All of this at a time when the world needs to move away from coal, not towards it.

You don't like Trump, that's pretty clear. But at least he is doing what those who voted for him want him to (whether you agree with it or not).
Turnbull is doing far worse, and the only real beneficiaries of it are Indian billionaires and temporary fly in fly out construction workers.

[casstony]

And the way Adani is run the owners get millions in profit regardless of the companies profit or loss. Totally bogus deal.

[AndrewJ]

Dunno how true it is yet, but IIRC, there was a recent bit of digging on where the "Govt" money was going.
Adani wanted big money from the Govt to fund the railway ( which will be made available to others at a cost )
The railway part of the project was alleged to be wholly owned by a different standalone Adani company, ie not tied to the mines.
Soooo, they get the rights to mine and make a subsidised railway.
They then sell off the now "much more valuable on paper rights" to the mine at a large profit and keep the "free" railway as a safe as houses profit stream. Lots of money and little risk.
Be interested to see how true that report is???????

Andrew

[casstony]

And in a story from later this year: retired govt minister gets advisory job with Adani.

[AussieTrooper]

Australia is an 'interesting' place when it comes to corruption.
In an outright bribery way, we rank as one of the best in the world.
However when it comes to the close relationships between billionaires and the politicians who shape the policy that makes them that money, we are one of the worst in the world. Level with Colombia from memory.
Blatant financial conflict of interest is insanely common.
The latest one is the North East Link Tollway in Melbourne.
The RACV spent years lobbying for this road, and the government then miraculously appoints a General Manager from the RACV as their North East Link Authority CEO.
Actual bribery may be preferable. At least then there's a chance of the police convicting someone.