Cold climate question :)

[LewisM]

Canberra got cold last night. Officially it was -4° where we are, but my thermometer recorded -8°. Needless to say, extensive frost, frozen water etc. I photographed a white golf course this morning. Now, tonight and the rest of the week supposed to get even colder. Canberra Airport ATIS says 7.5° now, but 2° felt.

Now the funny part. I was born in the NT, threw up in QLD. I know nothing about cold weather car ops. The rear of the car was frosted over this morning and there was a light frost on the windscreen...doofus QLDer applied the sprayers and windscreen wipers...yup, instant slush freezing from the super-chilled water hitting the sub-temp glass. I stopped and scrapped it all off :) (while my 8 year old laughed her head off).

So, would adding a good dash of methanol or ethanol be sufficient as anti-freeze in our relatively mild winter? No, I am not stupid enough to add engine anti-freeze to my washer water (don't need glycol paint stripping the car!).

I have technical grade methanol and ethanol, so wondering which is better - I believe the old anti-freezes used methanol before people started drinking it...

[multiweb]

Hot kettle or an old credit card to scrap the ice. Alcohol in the water won't make the ice on your windscreen melt. Might help stop the water lines from freezing though.

[Slawomir]

You can add either. Methanol is usually odourless but it is toxic, while cheap ethanol smells intensely but is (relatively) non toxic. The more alcohol you add, the lower the freezing point.

[LewisM]

Not looking to melt it, just looking to stop slush forming if I need to spray it :) And stop the water bottle freezing over if it get's that cold lol.

[multiweb]

Cheap vodka as a last resort. :)

[LewisM]

Nah, that's kerosene - I could degrease the engine at the same time I guess.

[casstony]

If the garden hose is kept empty of water so that it doesn't freeze you can run the hose on the windscreen and slowly melt away the ice.
There shouldn't be an issue using spayers on the windscreen once you're driving because the warm air from the heater should keep the windscreen warm.

[glend]

Never ever use hot water, that is a good way to crack a windscreen. Get yourself a scrapper, they should sell them in Canberra. You can simply put a small blue cheap tarp over the windscreen, held down by the wipers, just go out and remove it and the frost in the morning. Sun shades on the outside work as well.
The Canadian solution is to buy a car pre-heater, and block heater, which you plug in when parked at home or work, it keeps the coolant jacket of the block warm and will pre-heat the cabin and some incorporate a remote start function to start the car so the defrosters can clear the windscreen.

https://www.lifewire.com/block-heaters-vs-remote-starters-534654

[LewisM]

Not sure I need a block heater just yet Glen, but thanks :)

I went and poured about 100 ml of tech meth in the washer bottle. Shall be interesting :) I also cleaned the glass with the meth too just in case that helps it forming in the first place, kinda like Rainex on a windshield.

[multiweb]

hmmm... always used hot water in the past, never thought about it. I guess if you had a chip in it but even so thermal shock would be unlikely. I mean if you drive in sub zero temps and you blow hot air inside your windshield I'd say it's designed for it. Besides when a car is covered in ice in altitude and it's -25c you have two options. Hot water or a pickaxe. Always used water :)

[casstony]

The problem with hot water on a cold windscreen is that it has a 7x greater rate of heat transfer than air, so it is a bit risky pouring a hot kettle full of water on freezing glass.

[LewisM]

I also made myself a scraper from 3mm thick polystyrene sheet (bevelled one edge). Buy one? Where's the fun in that!

I had the demister on FULL (30°) and it had made a tiny hole by the time I started scraping. Nissan sure sux heater wise! (My VW on the other hand would have cremated the damned ice, including off the permanently heated side mirrors. Das Auto :) )

[pgc hunter]

Just run the engine for a few minutes to warm up the windscreen sprayer water, then get spraying. Worked for me on a -5C outing last winter. You can do this while you're packing up so by the time you're ready to head off the engine will be nice and warm.

That's on my to-do list before I head out tomorrow - fill the windscreen sprayer, but knowing me I'll forget. There is always that one thing...

[LewisM]

When I go out to the DSS, I will start the car about 30 min before we leave. Not just for the windscreen, but me too :)

[sheeny]

Canberra is similar to Oberon, maybe not quite so cold, but similar.

The only issue with hot water on a frozen windscreen is if you have an existing crack in the screen - hit it with hot water and just watch it run!

My current ice scraper is 12mm thick UHMWPE with about a 60° edge on one side. I've broken credit cards, and even thinner UHMWPE. Had the 12mm one for over 15 years now so I think it works.:P

Covering the windscreen and windows with a tarp is a good thing if you can be bothered. I usually can't. Don't cover them with newspaper, because if the newspaper gets wet before the the sky clears and the frost arrives you just have a reinforced layer of ice on the windscreen. You'll enjoy that!:lol:

If it has been wet weather or you've driven through puddles before parking the car and expect it to get below freezing over night, leave the vehicle in gear (if its a manual) or Park but leave the handbrake off. The handbrake can freeze on and you will need copious quantities of hot water splashed onto the wheels to get them to release... or wait till lunch time. It depends a bit on how much hot water you have and how hard the frost was.

Keep a camera handy in case you get some good patterns in the frost on the windows or if you get a hoar frost you might get some great crystal structures.:thumbsup:

Be grateful you don't live in Canada and need fuel abd block heaters, etc... or in Siberia where you have to build a wood fire under the fuel tank and engine and around each tyre to get it all fluid/flexible before you drive off. -40 to -55°C would test my sense of humour after a while I think.;)

Al.

[acropolite]

I'm with Mark, used warm water from the tap for the past 40 years; have never cracked a windscreen.

[leon]

Did you know in Russia/Siberia when it gets that cold they never turn off a Diesel truck engine, and just let it idle.

leon

[LewisM]

That is TRUE. My father in law, who lives in the middle of Siberia, had a double-blowout in a truck in the middle of nowhere in high-winter. He kept the engine running all night, and did indeed light a fire to get things fluid again. He did almost perish before he was rescued. Never drove long-haul again.

I've been in Russia mid-winter. It's not funny. One day I was there was -36° in Moscow, and -47° in my wife's home town. A nice warm night was -12°.

My wife just stares incredulously at twits that say she must be used to the cold growing up in Siberia. Like she says, you NEVER get used to it (then again, she weighs 50kg in full winter gear and knee high boots....)

[Kunama]

I turn on the engine, crank up the heater and demisters and go inside to make a coffee and some toast, back out 15mins later to a nice warm car......

[LewisM]

I'll upload them later if I remember - nice ice formations on the rear bumper.

The foliage around the place was fascinating - the fallen autumn brown leaves were spiked with ice, and the golf course we live next to was completely white....and some icicles on the flags at the holes.

One wealthy home owner near my daughter's school will be regretting having automated reticulation. Whilst her neighbours lawns were frosted, hers was solid ice. You can guess why (unless she had a burst pipe I suppose).

Thank god for clouds (do we ever say that here?) - it's warmed up to 7.1° now, 4.5° felt. :)

[multiweb]

Saw photos once of a bloke in Siberia lighting a wood fire under his truck in the morning before getting it started to free the transmission shaft. :lol:

When I was working in Andorra the temp was always sub zero and -30c at times as we were in winter above 3000m. The local servos all sold a special blend of diesel because when it gets that cold the paraffin separates and clogs the fuel filters like a bad mayonaise that turns.

[sheeny]

We get winter diesel for 6 months of the year here in Oberon, Marc.:thumbsup:

Al.

[N1]

This:

http://www.fishpond.co.nz/Toys/Mountain-Warehouse-Ice-Scraper-Mitt-Boyz-Toys/9999068942094?gclid=COXBmbHBmNQCFU8 EKgodwpwCJA#!5029476005765?utm_sour ce=googleps&utm_medium=ps&utm_campaign=NZ#!5029476005765

[multiweb]

Wow! That's commitment. Didn't realise it go that cold. Do you guys get snow? Not that high.

[Wavytone]

Yes it snows in Oberon though not regularly, and certainly more often than in Canberra.

Lived in Canberra for 13 years ... it snowed occasionally but most years none.

In the days of printed newspapers we used to cover the car windscreen with that - in the morning it would peel off with most of the ice so demisting was relatively quick. Whatever cover you choose had better be disposable as the ice that forms isn't particularly clean given what else is in the air on a cold Canberra night - smoke from fireplaces and wood stoves.

[BC]

Welcome to the harsh reality of Canberra winter.
I've lived in the Canberra region for 30 years and have always used warm water without any problems. I start the car, get out and pour some of the 2L juice bottle (washed out) over the screen. Start the wipers on normal speed and then pour small amounts where the ice is re-forming (you can hear the scratching sound). Splash a bit on your rear view side mirrors and side windows (so you can see the mirrors). Splash a bit more on the screen if ice is reforming and off you go.
Existing cracks have not become larger. It only has to feel warm and it works fine. I agree if it's too hot it can be a problem.
Bruce

[Sconesbie]

9:13am here in Launceston and it's 1.3 deg. I use warm water on our windscreen. No problem. I do try to make sure it's lukewarm and not hot. Otherwise a card from my wallet although I did snap my fishing license last year doing this.

[LewisM]

No ice this morning thanks to the cloud cover last night but it did hit -2 where we are. I must be acclimatised...still wearing shorts and thin shirt with just a thin jacket on top.My self-induced lipid layer helps a lot with cold control :)

[strongmanmike]

My car is in an underground carpark at home so all good for me there...but when I am out at the observatory in winter for the cold nights (like tonight will be!) with the car parked outside, I have one of those reflective windscreen covers used in Summer, I put it on the outside of the windscreen and secure tightly against the glass using the doors..in the morning when I want to leave, I take it off, turn on the windscreen demister and all good. The only down side is the cover is usually covered with a layer of ice, which obviously melts so I can't put it in the car, so I brush off at least some of the ice and leave it inside the observatory site shed, you would leave it at home in the garage I guess? :)

Mike

[LewisM]

Geez Mike, ever heard of a plastic bag? :) :P

[strongmanmike]

Yeah, but I leave the reflector sheet out at the observatory anyway, besides, I'd forget to take it out of the bag to dry and there is usually heaps of ice on the cover too, quite thick sometimes too, so be better to leave it somewhere it can just melt off and drip dry :)

[strongmanmike]

Was -4C out here last night and looking like going there again tonight..the car was covered in ice at 5:30am this morning but the sun shade did its job, perfectly clear windscreen when removed :thumbsup:

Mike

[LewisM]

My back bumper and window was iced over, but the windscreen was not. I tried spraying metho on the cold glass directly, and contrary to advice here, it INSTANTLY melted the ice there. Perhaps it helped the metho was warmer than the glass, but the effect was instant.

Not as frosty around the place here as the other day - the humidity was lower.

[LewisM]

He he he - now I know Mike's number plate...I'll be on the lookout :)

[RobF]

Perhaps try this too

http://nypost.com/2016/02/08/how-to-de-ice-your-windshield-in-less-than-a-minute/

[LewisM]

Yup i can corroborate that post exactly - metho melts the ice straight away.

[LewisM]

When I informed my wife it is forecast to snow in Canberra suburbs on Tuesday, she did not share my excitement ...

[rat156]

Well, whilst not as cold as Siberia, it does drop to -10 to -15 here overnight in winter. So I'll add my voice to not using hot water on your windscreen. But difference between 100 ish degree water and a -15 piece of glass. The locals all have ice scrapers here. And it's ice, not a frost, which we would typically get in Melbourne. The doors of the car are frozen shut, you hear the ice crack when you open them.

My car has remote start and heated screens, yes, plural, front screen is heated as well (as are the seats and steering wheel), simply start the car 10 - 15 minutes before you want to head off, and go out an manually remove the stuff from the side windows, I use a rubber squeegee as it's generally a bit loose from the heater in the car. The rear view mirrors are also heated.

Other parts of Europe and the US are another kettle of fish.

Either MeOH or EtOH will be great, I just use the premixed stuff here, it's cheap enough and has detergent in it to clean off the bugs from summer driving.

Cheers
Stu (in Sunny Netherlands)

[pgc hunter]

A pic from last night's session. This particular session had seeing that was virtually perfect. Near-textbook diffraction rings at 600x at times. Also first light for my Delites. Report coming soon.