RIP Sirius Observatories

[Peter Ward]

I was saddened to receive this email late today:

"It is with heavy hearts and deep regret that the owners of Sirius Observatories Australia Pty Ltd regret to inform you that they have decided to close down Sirius Observatories Australia Pty Ltd.

Our last day of business will be on Friday 31st March, 2017. After that date, Sirius Observatories Australia will no longer be offering our superior quality observatories for sale."


A real shame. It was a great product. :sadeyes:

[Stardrifter_WA]

Sad to hear, yet another astro company fallen. Unfortunately a sign of the times, it seems?

I have one, they are a great product.

[marc4darkskies]

Saddened? Yes :sadeyes:. But annoyed that Australia is such a hopeless place to sustain a manufacturing business or any kind of entrepreneurial spirit :mad2:.

[h0ughy]

Wow, I better look after my piece of history

[lazjen]

I was thinking the same.

[Octane]

Are there any local alternatives of the same calibre?

H

[Peter Ward]

Sadly no...my Sirius 2.3 metre is close to 30 years old, and while looking weathered still works well.

It was by far the best bit of gear I'd ever purchased as it allowed you to use your polar aligned 'scope day or night and at times when marginal weather would have made you otherwise not bother.

There are simply no competing products of the same quality made off shore either...they will leave quite a void :sadeyes:

[Octane]

I'm building my own roll-off roof one at the moment, but, always good to know of other solutions (for when we buy our country property!).

H

[strongmanmike]

Here ya go :thumbsup:

ScopeDome Australia (http://www.scopedome.com.au/)

[lazjen]

They look neat, but it looks like the door is on the rotating part of the dome. Not ideal to me.

[Peter Ward]

Agreed. Having the walls rotate is a PITA. No where to put your PC, flat screen panel, power supplies, lights etc and not infringe limited floor space.

[el_draco]

Maybe I'm being precious but it always irritates me when there are no prices on online business sites, even for the basic product.

Seems either:
- Sneaky or
- They are ashamed of scaring you off with the asking price or
- They want to get your information so they can bombard you in the future.

I don't buy the argument that its all customised. Plenty of online businesses can do it effectively.

These days, it takes 2 seconds to update an online price list. :shrug:

[lazjen]

You've got to look at bit, but you can find the prices on that site for most of the domes. It's just not obvious.

[poppasmurf]

They have prices on the site. 3m dome $14350 manual, $20500 full automation

[Tinderboxsky]

There are prices listed in their online shop. Just takes a few clicks to find them. Certainly more user friendly if you did not need to dig so far.

[Merlin66]

Imported from Poland.

[Dave47tuc]

That is a great shame , I always wanted one of these Sirius Observatories but could never afford one. But looking back on how I spent my dollars if I set my priorities correctly things may have been different.

Now I have a Sky Pod on the way I'm not concerned on anyone's opinions on these as a Sky Pod will suit me my budget and my needs.

But the Sirius Observatory is and was a great product will be missed.

David.

[Hans Tucker]

http://astrodomes.com/services/

[Merlin66]

Hmmmmm
http://www.soldonnet.com.au/search/Businessdetail.asp?ID=1841&CustomerID=95843135

[Nikolas]

Yet they don't name an indicative price, hence no custom from me

[Merlin66]

See message #14 and #15

[Nikolas]

Yeah saw those but they only quote the 3 metre domes

[theodog]

Bought mine second hand. It had been through Cyclone Yasi, yet all I had to do was clean off some mould, mildew and old lubricant and it was good and sound as new.
Just purchased the full automation mid last year. It was recently fitted in one weekend and operates like a steam-train.
I recon it's a quality unit and the people as Sirius were great to deal with.
Sorry to see them go.:sadeyes:

[Peter Ward]

A flood of orders....With real deposits...might make them review their decision to close.

But I doubt the local Astro community will rally.

[Atmos]

If I had a spare $25,000 and somewhere to put it, I'd put my name on that list!

[Slawomir]

That pretty much sums it up for our local astro community.

[GrampianStars]

Originally Posted by Atmos View Post
If I had a spare $25,000 and somewhere to put it, I'd put my name on that list!



Unfortunately Australia has only a niche Astronomy market and cannot support a profitable long term specialized business of this type without a streamlined export system in place.

[Peter Ward]

Actually a fully automated 2.3 metre is way under $25k, try about $15k

Not chump change, but given the longevity of the investment it's really peanuts.

That said, given parts of Sydney are looking more like Mong Kok theses days,
(a pox on developers and the NSW government for that) the notion of a backyard with a small observatory I have to admit is quaint at best...

[lazjen]

Not only is the astronomy market niche, but really the people who can afford to buy one of these make a niche within a niche.

Another thing to consider is that realistically for most people, it is far cheaper to go with other options than one of these domes (ROR, etc).

I was lucky enough to get mine 2nd hand, so obviously a lot cheaper than new, but still probably significantly more than say a ROR.

[Slawomir]

Unfortunately I cannot see things improving in Australia, since the current draft for the national curriculum does not include astronomy in physics, but we will have to teach young Australian physicists about heating and cooling in year 11 physics. For example recommended pracs for yr11 physics in the new physics syllabus are based on measuring temperature change of water over time when it is heated in a beaker over a Bunsen burner, as we currently do in year 7 science. When I voiced out my disappointment, I was told that I need to be innovative and could vary the experiment and make it more exciting for the students by substituting water with tea or coffee...and all of that is happening while we, as a humanity, are mapping the Milky Way and the Universe and discovering new worlds.

[Peter Ward]

Guess I think differently about my hobby to most....even if I was to buy a 2.3 metre Observatory new, and assuming I'll get 20 years service from it, that's about $65 a month.

As I said peanuts.

Many people pay more than that for FoxTel...and have nothing tangible to show for their investment.

[troypiggo]

Do they offer a $65/month no interest payment plan? The maths is different to having $15k available to drop in one hit.

[Merlin66]

Peter,
I only wish I had another twenty years available!!!

[Peter Ward]

I guess we've come to appreciate "tomorrow is promised to no one" more than most !

[beren]

Last Saturday got a chance to visit a mates Sirius ob, I was just awe struck by the set up . The next night I was in my backyard shivering cold, fighting the wind, mozzies and thinking its time to start saving for one. Then I see the news here, sad that such a iconic brand/product will finish up.

[Peter Ward]

I'm toying with the idea of still making the Sirius product available, but only in the 2.3 metre and 3.5 metre versions.

So a poll would be useful.

Size? 2.3 meter or 3.5 metre ?

Price limit ? $2.5k $5k, $7.5k $10K $15k $20K ??

[lazjen]

Is that for the base unit? Or with the automated bits as well?

[simon_rl]

That is so true. We have had a Foxtel package for 5 years now, paying around the $100 mark each month. Also when you take into account internet access & 3 mobile phone plans we are spending over $500 a month :eyepop:in entertainment and technology related services with no real return on our out lay. My personal opinion is that internet is worthwhile to a degree, but it is not a worth while investment like a Sirius observatory which provides a high quality product, a permanent setup and protection for our valuable astronomy gear.

I think the big problem is, and I am guilty of it too, that we do not look at the big picture and see the long term gains over the short term gratification, which too often dictates how we spend our money. Just my 2 cents and I sincerely apologise if I have offended anyone.

[Slawomir]

Most of us here have made substancial investments into astro gear, every person according to own circumstances. A dome is clearly a luxury that a few can afford, not to mention having a place to put it. I would love a modest 2.3m automated dome, but most likely I will need to gradually build my own observatory, but for that to happen will have to get a house first.

[Merlin66]

Simon, I think the family would still require you to have those services even if you bought an observatory.

[simon_rl]

Unfortunately you are right Ken. My life would be very short if I cut off all the services I mention. My wife and son would not be happy with me :lol:.

[Atmos]

I tend to think of it the same way as you to Peter, long term "investing". Where I live in Melbourne there is no space to put in any kind of observatory and while I do have a 10 acre property in Heathcote I've still got quite some time before I want a fully automated place to deal with :P

Besides all that, looking at either buying or building a place later this near and need that all painful deposit.
I imaging this is the kind of issue that many run into. Renters will most likely never be able to put down the footing for an observatory and buying an observatory eats into any kind of deposit.

[Peter Ward]

Well, how about both? eg. is $10k too much for say a fully automated 2.3?

As for (not) having the money...Gerry Harvey made a fortune by selling dubious quality goods on "interest free" terms....plus there are things called banks who love to loan $ for all sorts of reasons.....hence I guess I comes down to appreciating the advantages, desire and motivation.

I simply wouldn't swap my Obs for a Foxtel subscription, period.

[codemonkey]

If I didn't already have a 2.3m Sirius, I'd pay 10k for a fully automated 2.3m dome.

The dome I got was an old, beat up on. I wanted to automate it. Sirius quoted me about 11k (inc. freight, but I'm only 1 - 1.5hrs drive from them) for a retrofit kit including new top shutter, motors, controllers etc. I was prepared to pay 3.5k for that, but not 11k.

If you can get that retrofit kit to me for 3.5k, Peter, I'll be your first customer and even the wife will agree to that one ;-)

[Ausrock]

Peter,

Do you know whether Peninsular F/glass would be willing to sell their moulds.

I work in composites, specifically in bespoke resin formulations, etc., and may be able to have some input should you take this further.

I hate to say this, but knowing the raw material costs, most manufactured f/glass products are extremely overpriced........the question is why.

ChrisO :)

[lazjen]

Nor would I swap mine either. :)

I'm not the right person to ask for the price, since I've already got a 3.5m unit with the motorised dome (what's the premium of 3.5 over 2.3 for price?). For me, I'm like Lee in that I need to pay for a bit more to finish the job: motorised shutter. I didn't bother for the same reason: too expensive for the necessary components.

I suspect you could bring the price of the system down a lot if you replaced the current MaxDome controlling system with something else.

And if you've got design/engineering control, there's a few alterations or optimisations I'd look at doing as well for the domes. Besides adding new, optional features, e.g. weather station integration, power management/access, internal environmental control (dehumidifier or A/C) - with all of these remote controllable and accessible.

So, how far do you want to go? :) I personally think that the domes being provided on the market really do not fully meet our needs. They're currently just a starting point and there's usually a lot more that needs to be done to finish the job properly.

[Peter Ward]

I can think of a few reasons:

3 sets of wages, OH&S precautions, factory lease costs, tooling and equipment, glass and resins, insurance, accounting and taxes etc. etc.

You'd need $300k for a year's operation before you laid up your first panel.

[kittenshark]

Running costs in Australia have been high. Same goes for any country that has a decent min. wage. Labour costs will push up manufacturing and material costs indirectly. Then you got rent to pay. And shipping. It's insane that it usually costs less for some dude in China to ship the same item to a customer in Australia than it is for us to ship it locally (in the same suburb!). :screwy:

Cheap mass market domes out of China anybody? :question: I don't know, but likely. All you need to get is a container out of a Chinese factory and you likely will be able to compete with the cottage/niche industries in Australia. This is why it is a conscious effort, not a logical and economical one, to support Aussie manufacturers.

[TR]

It is always sad to see an industry close its doors. There have been many interesting points raised in this thread. Comparing two domes is like comparing apples to oranges. Both are different sizes. I know that 0.7 of a meter doesn’t sound like a lot, but it is a significant difference. So, add in a size offset into your calculations. You are also comparing a turnkey solution with full automation to a solution where several have stated that they wish they had an automation kit or had this extra bit. So I believe that this is really not a far comparison. You could compare the Sirius 3.5 meter to the ScopeDome 3.0 meter. There is only a 0.5 meter size difference compared to the 0.7 of the 2.3 meter Sirius. Again, both very different.

I have seen the offerings from most vendors. The two mentioned in this thread, and others from overseas. I currently have two domes from different vendors. The first has changed hands several times, and is still kicking. In one of its previous lives, the dome worked continually in the deserts (it is fully automated) for a decade. As the third owner, I have had only a few issues over the years, but only with parts that would be considered consumables. Contacts/pullies/cables etc. The second, is one of the domes mentioned in this thread, the ScopeDome 3 meter. Gee, all I can say is that it really is a nice bit of engineering. It has three phase motor to control the rotation, and shutters. The ramp up and down very smoothly. It has sensors that can provide several weather metrics as well, and act on them. All the fittings are stainless steel. The fiberglass dome is marine grade, well they construct ships. I know they have been wind tested and don’t require an additional wind kit, it’s built correct. The shutter system can be open or closed in high wind, it doesn’t flap outwards exposed to the wind. The slit is very generous in width as well. That allows for faster cool down, and reducing turbulents.

As it if a fully robotic solution, I really have no need to have anything in the dome other than my observatory control gear, pc, and scope. The last thing to have would be any extraneous items or clutter in the dome. To be honest, extra stuff only provides for potential accidents or snags. A clean observatory is a happy observatory.

I’m just a happy customer, and have no regrets with my last dome purchase over a year ago.

[w0mbat]

I bought a 2.3 M Sirius around three years ago with dome rotation but not shutter automation. When I enquired later about retrofitting the shutter automation I was pretty surprised to be quoted around $4K. I did not proceed. Now that they are closing I worry that I will regret that decision in the future. It would be really great if some future support or source of parts did eventuate. There must be many of these fine observatories out there so I suspect there would be many others feeling the same way once the news of their closure gets around. It would be interesting to find out how many have been sold.
Ian

[lazjen]

Most of the shutter automation cost comes from the MaxDome components, which I believe come from Canada? Anyway, you might still be able to get them and finish the job.

I have heard of other ways to achieve the process without resorting to such an expensive path. Once I complete other things for the dome I might re-visit this and see what can be done.

[w0mbat]

Maxdome is a Diffraction Limited (Cyanogen) product from Canada. They charge a ridiculous amount for the board which is a simple old fashioned circuit board.

I remember hearing once (please correct me if you know this is wrong) that Maxdome was a originally a Sirius product but when it became Maxdome 2 they somehow lost control of the product to Diffraction Limited (the same people who sell Maxim DL).
I imagine that the cost of the automation components would have contributed to the demise of the Sirius observatories as a viable product.
Ian

[Peter Ward]

That is incorrect.

Due a lack of affordable Australian expertise, Advanced Telescope Supplies hired Cyanogen to develop the original MaxDome product for Sirius, and was the sole agent for them, with Sirius being main customer.

The original system did not have remote shutter control, which in the end saw its demise, as this was essential for fully robotc operation.

It was however a lot less expensive than the albeit more capable MaxDome II

[Star Hunter]

I've got a Sirius 2.6m and 3.6m that house a solar scope and 12"F15 C'Cass and are perfect for that. But nothing, IMHO, beats a roll-off obs. Having said that, the money spent on a complete dome setup as opposed to a RO is unquestionable. Noting beats watching a big roof slide back to allow a multitude of scopes and cameras to work all night, unhindered by a tiny slit in a dome.
Jim

[spiezzy]

I totally agree with you Jim
I have a POD Observatory and it has its limits with the Zenith but I still love it very much .
before I purchased the POD ,at my old place I had a ROR obs and that was just perfect and added on a warm room off to the side and it was just so comfortable on those cold nights .
I had a TV all my computer gear serpent from the main imaging scope The ROR was quite simple to build and from memory only cost me around $1500
before we moved house I had the this full automated the person that purchased the house was a Astronomer him self .
but the Sirius Observatory has always appealed to me but was always just out of my price range for a new unit they are a beautiful Piece of engineering sad to see them go
cheers Pete

[Star Hunter]

Agreed mate. Oz does not have the population to allow astro businesses to flourish like in the US or UK, nor do they have the dark skies as we do, but then, my guess is by 2050 and certainly by 2100, there will be very little dark skies left in Oz due to CSG flares, pop. expansion and so forth. But with the closing of Sirius Observatories, someone sill fill the hole left. Personally, an ROR is the way to go if you have the space.

[Peter Ward]

Agreed for multiple mounts, a roll-off simply works. Domes are hard to beat for protection from wind buffeting and stray lights...the latter being my major problem.

[Star Hunter]

I've designed numerous ROR and built three and one 'flip-top'. IN the ROR's One 4 x3m, a 6 x 6m and 8 x 6m. Each roof rolls back to the north using a rack and pinion and hydraulic pump. Another uses an auto-gate motor and the small one, a R/P via a DC motor. Each one has 1.8m walls. The reason why I go RTOR's is because it allows one to use a multitude of cameras, lenses and scopes. While wind buffering can be a bit of hassle at times, I have never had any image shakes, as the motto I live by in telescope mounts is.. 'A tree is only as strong as its roots are deep' Those with heaps of room like in acreage, and ROR is the king. Those with limited space, a small scope a dome. Those into AstroPhotog'y will say, an ROR is the ONLY way to go.

Jim

[Paul Haese]

Sad to hear of Sirius passing. They have served both the domestic and international market for years.

Sirius were probably a bit too expensive really for many to afford and that affected their bottom line. The cost of labour in this country is high but if you pump out more units you can compensate for this cost, its really a matter of efficiencies.

Scope dome makes automation kits which will fit Sirius domes and will work perfectly well. In fact their automation kits work well for ROR systems too. I have a version 2 USB card for my roll off roof system. The astronomical society of South Australia has one installed in their new 8 meter 4 tonne turret system. We are currently installing the roof component with a 12V system. Such is the flexibility of the Scope Dome control system.

I have owned a 3M Scope Dome 3 years. I am using a version 1.1 USB card in that dome. Its been through about 6 major storms with wind gusts over 125km/h. Never had any issue with it; wide slit, good security, excellent wall thickness which stops deflection, great for automation and it was affordable when I bought mine. The current prices for Australia are over inflated in my opinion. I paid $10K for my dome with full automation. My ROR automation kit cost $2500+ 200 for freight from Poland 4 years ago. It came with rack and pinion, three phase motor, variable speed drive, internal and external thermometers, hygrometer and both bottom and top control units.

Despite domes being really sexy, I still think a ROR is going to be king with an automation kit. You only need to have the roof open and close with monitoring for weather. You alleviate the need to have a dome rotate about the scope and you can carry more than one system under a ROR if you plan it out well.

[gaa_ian]

As the North Qld Dealer for Sirius Observatories we too were saddened by their demise. Too many quotes going out for the domes but not enough orders coming back. It is a very great shame, especially that they shipped many to the world over the years including to NASA, JPL and the likes !
Two fine gentlemen forced into an early retirement and My good friend who worked for them out of work too :-(
I too would have liked one, once I had the acreage to put it on.

[stefang]

ScopeDome make great kit. And Steven is a great guy to deal with.
stefan

[g__day]

Sad news - love my 2.3m Sirius dome which I had automated for rotation. Work has been hectic and I haven't done any astronomy for months - but it is great knowing everything is set up and it would only take minutes to be active and imaging again.

Sirius where a great company - very sad to see them close their doors :(

[OwenSirius]

Hi everyone, I'd like to announce that Sirius Observatories are back. I have been working with Colin at Astrodomes and was taking over his business when we read this very forum post. We went down to see John and Joe to find out if there was enough market for us to carry on. John and Joe gave us some great advice and mentioned that the moulds were for sale.

I mulled it over but didn't want the financial risk. When an Australian buyer couldn't be found and it looked like they might be sold over seas I managed to convince my wife to allow us to take the risk.

We're working with a very talented composite technician to make sure that the observatories are built to the same quality and specification as Joe and John had been.

So we are up and running now and the new website is over at http://siriusdomes.com siriusdomes.com (http://siriusdomes.com)

We're also manufacturing the Astrodomes and happy to talk to people about these if they would like any more information. www.astrodomes.com

Hope to see some of you at AstroFest this weekend.

[RickS]

That's great news. Congrats, Owen! I'll say hello at Astrofest :)

[Ausrock]

Good to see these domes will continue to be available. :thumbsup:

Having worked in a bespoke composites company for (at least) the last nine years, I briefly considered the possibility of attempting to acquire the moulds but the reality of my work commitments dictated I just wouldn't have the time to commit to do justice to the product.

[graham.hobart]

that's good news. Anyone have any idea roughly how much a home model full kit is (without the electronics?)
G

[g__day]

Great news - welcome back! Will you still sell the dome rotation and shutter kits? I bought the dome rotation a while back but didn't get the shutter kit for a 2.3m observatory before they closed their doors. Now maybe I will get a second chance?

[Peter Ward]

I spoke with Owen prior to flying out to the USA (eclipse) and was delighted to hear the guys at Sirius were also helping with the handover. Its a great product and I sincerely hope the amateur community give it the support it deserves.

[AstroJunk]

I have a fully automated 2.3m dome and it has been very good. However, it was designed in the day when an 8" SCT was massive and the need for guide-scopes were beyond the amateur.

The dome opening needs to be seriously widened to make it competitive these days. I spoke to the original owners about this and they were not interested. They went bust - quelle surprise!

Another story of a great Aussie company failing to invest in it's product. I really hope the new owner (OwenSirius) re-invigorates the brand. I'm away on travels for a few months, but I'll invite you (Owen) to my observatory and give you some tips for consideration when I get back to Brisbane in the new year :thumbsup: