Celestron Australia Update Information

[glend]

I am starting this only to provide an update on Celestron Australia.


Today I had a telephone conversation with John Cross, Business Development Manager, for Celestron Australia Pty Ltd.
Celestron now have a direct presence in Australia and John is responsible for Celestron products in Australia.
John joined Celestron Australia from Sheldon and Hammond, and it is clear he was not happy about how the brand was looked after by that company, including pricing policy.
Sheldon and Hammond have nothing to do with Celestron anymore.
Celestron Australia supplies direct to only four premium retailers: Bintel, Optics Central, Oz Scopes, and Australian Geographic.
Celestron Australia does not supply to Andrews Communications, and any Celestron products purchased through Andrews will not have a Celestron warranty (Andrews will have to warranty the product itself, and boxes will likely have labels and barcodes removed).
John is working on pricing to ensure that Australia gets competitive offerings and there is no middleman setting additional margin any longer. The pricing on the CGX is a good example, where it was on parity with that offered by overseas retailers like BHP, Optcorp, etc, after currency conversion and allowing for local GST/shipping.
The expectation is that the four premium retailers will provide all relevant service, and parts for Celestron products.

These are the main points. I don't see this as requiring debate, it is what it is.

[FlashDrive]

That's good to hear ... better prices etc...:)

[Stardrifter_WA]

Can you please provide the rest of us with John's contact details?

[glend]

I believe i would need John's permission to do that. He contacted me, in relation to my CGX. He can decide if he wants his details released here.

[Stardrifter_WA]

Knowing a bit of the history of Celestron in Australia I doubt anything will actually change anyway, particularly if the BDM is going to hide. I will be surprised if it does.

I'll get his number from Trade.

Cheers P

[casstony]

There shouldn't be any need to contact John Cross going forward, assuming the dealers are able to properly support the products they sell.

The pricing changes are welcome, putting us on an even footing with the US (assuming that actually happens).

Historically Andrews have had good support for the Celestron gear they sell, so lack of authorization hasn't been a disadvantage.

[Stardrifter_WA]

I disagree, I have an ongoing electronic issue with my Celestron SCT and retailers will not bother with it, nor do I blame them; I didn't buy it from them, so why should they bother. To actually be able to talk to a Celestron representative may actually get a resolution, although I won't hold my breath. A BDM that hides isn't going to be much good for Celestron. I have already approach S&H when they were the distributor, no help there either. I have probably already spoken to this guy as he was at S&H, according to his Linkedin page. I am certainly not going to approach a store where I didn't buy it for help to resolve the issue. I originally bought it from York Optical and they no longer exist.

I very much doubt you will see comparable prices with the US, due to economies of scale. The US has far greater purchasing power. I will certainly be happy if I am wrong, although, not sure I would buy another Celestron SCT, or the Meade version. Currently looking for alternatives because Celestron do not appear to want to support their products over the longer term.

I guess the real question is, how long should we expect to get out of our telescopes? I certainly don't like the idea that 5-10 years down the track, throw it away, buy a new one. I know we are becoming a throwaway society, but that seems a road too far!

Cheers Peter

[toc]

This is great news. I was really chuffed by the pricing of the CGX mount late last year - it was about a grand less than I was expecting :).

[glend]

John Cross, Celestron Business Development Manager for Asia- Pacific, has contacted me and asked that I include some information in this thread that he has provided directly. He has been monitoring this thread, and the previous one I assume, and wanted to clarify a few things concerning Celestron Australia and his role. Of course there is no reason that John could not join the conversation here on IIS, I am very leary of getting in the middle of things and indicated that to John. Never the less, as a one off I am publishing the contents of an email that John has provided to me for this purpose.

Here is what John has asked to be added to this tread:

"I have noted your comment on Ice In Space, and the replies it has solicited. I am hard pressed for time, however, owing to the apparent confusion regarding our operations here, I thought that I would take the time to provide you with some additional information, as you may like to add it to the thread to help clarify matters for Ice In Space members.

I am more than happy for my email address, jcross@celestron.com (jcross@celestron.com) to be provided to all and sundry, however, I do so on the proviso that it is understood that I’m not in a customer support role, and not always able to respond in a timely manner. My role is to manage Celestron’s business across the Asia Pacific region, and not simply Australia, so my day is generally long and filled with a multitude of tasks that keep me incredibly busy.


Should a Celestron customer experience any problem, then I would suggest that they contact their local retailer as the first port of call. Matters that are not able to be resolved by the retailer, may be directed to Celestron Support (via the support link on our website).

Celestron’s authorised retailer network consists of:

Australian Geographic
Bintel
Optics Central
Sirius Optics

At this time, and for the foreseeable future, we intend on only supplying the above companies. These companies were selected as they all provide great support and service, have a good understanding of the products they sell, and do what they can to ensure that Celestron’s customers are provided with the best possible experience. They are also prepared to have a good supply of our products in stock, allowing you to buy your product in store and take it home with you on the day (or a few days later if purchased online). Australian Geographic have stores across the country, and our other retailers are located in the three most populous states in Australia; NSW, QLD and VIC, so we have broad coverage.

Specialist stores globally are in decline, so I am doing what I can to help sustain these outlets in Australia, as I feel that they provide the astronomy community with invaluable product knowledge and personalised service. Now, with the removal of the previous distributor, we have some of the best pricing on Celestron products globally. Pricing was the number one issue that Australian consumers would raise as a concern with Celestron’s products. With the changes we have made, I now feel that these concerns have been allayed.

I should also mention that Celestron has sponsored, and I have personally attended, many astronomy related events in the past 18 months since being employed by Celestron directly, and I plan to continue doing so. At these events, I am always prepared to answer questions and assist Celestron customers in any way that I can. I can generally be found under a Celestron branded marquee, so I’m definitely not in hiding!

Parts can be ordered at any of the authorised retailers mentioned above. If a part number is not known, I recommend providing a detailed description and if possible, a photo. Many parts are held in Australia, however, at times we need to order in from head office or the factory, which can take time.

Goods purchased through the authorised retailer network will be provided with a warranty as outlined here: http://www.celestron.com/support/warranties

The Celestron website also provides the length of the warranty on the individual product page. Simply use the search button to find your product by name or model number, and at the bottom right of the page you will find the warranty that we provide. The CGX comes with a 2-Year Warranty for your reference.

I am personally responsible for managing the warranty process in Australia, and can assure you that it is taken very seriously. If you have a manufacturer’s fault with an item purchased from an authorised retailer, you will be supported for the entire warranty period. Beyond that time, we will do all that we can to support customers with any problem that they may have with their Celestron product.

I would be happy to have Peter (Stardrifter_WA) contact me, or if you can provide me with his telephone number, I’d happily give him a call. It would seem that he purchased his telescope around six years ago, as York Optical have been closed for about that long, so I expect his telescope is not under warranty. However, as previously mentioned, I am more than willing to help him find a satisfactory resolution for the problem he is experiencing.
In short Glen, I am very proud to work for Celestron, the world’s number one telescope manufacturer, and I will do all that I can to make sure that our reputation is also number one. The best way to do this is to sell great products at the best possible price and providing the best possible service. I believe that we are doing a pretty good job of this. However, there is always room for improvement, so I am always prepared to listen to constructive feedback.

On a parting note, we do not supply steak knives with our goods, however, having worked at S&H, I know the brand manager for Global Knives so might be able to help in this regard too!

Should you have any questions, comments, or require clarification on anything I have outlined above, please feel free to drop me a line."

Kind regards

John Cross
Business Development Manager – Asia Pacific

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=cfbd6e0d33&view=fimg&th=15b2230db5453228&attid=0.5&disp=emb&attbid=ANGjdJ-IdFWrzRLCqfY3wNrdUow8ickpcrfey0rKjz uschULZ0ILG5oOGkzwgaqo5ofPv1qZnwuey TvJGf7MPM9Ww08vpuYw41_L6syg8YJAizH-hVhp_0GK7lB2QRw&sz=w400-h68&ats=1490927394565&rm=15b2230db5453228&zw&atsh=1

e-mail: jcross@celestron.com
web: www.celestron.com (http://www.celestron.com)
(https://www.facebook.com/celestron)

[Stardrifter_WA]

Thanks for the post Glen, I am thankful for John’s response, as it certainly clears up some issues in regard to Celestron in Australia. As for John’s email, I got it from someone else yesterday, so all good there. Not that I actually need it, it is for future reference.

Glen, I don't understand your need to make a big deal and tell everyone that John Cross is monitoring this thread, is that supposed to be a warning of some sort? Well, maybe not, but given your previous remarks aimed towards me, that is the way I am reading it, right or wrong. Not that I really care anyway Glen. As a BDM, I would have thought that that is what he is doing in any case. It seems stupid to tell everyone, as he now may not get unfettered views, which are really the most important views for anyone who has to develop the Celestron brand. But, to be fair, that is only my view. Fortunately, it makes no difference to me.

As for discussing the issue, it is way too late for that John. Celestron handled the situation less than satisfactorily, as did S&H, and there was no good will shown on Celestron’s part, in fact, quite the opposite, as they were a little insulting in my view. It was still under warranty at that time, but there appeared to be some confusion as to who was responsible. To revisit it now will only serve to stir up the animosity I previously held. It would be a completely pointless exercise, too much time has passed. If I couldn’t get the parts then, I am certainly not going to get them now.

Would I buy another Celestron telescope? I really don’t know. Celestron is doing some great stuff, very innovative. The lack of any good will and the loss of faith in the electronics, for very good reason, makes me baulk at the idea of buying another fork mount or CGEM mount. It is still a point of annoyance for me, I paid a lot of money for a telescope that cannot be serviced, without the need to send it to China, at my cost even. It is galling, to say the least. I still buy Celestron accessories, as they are good value for money, for the most part.

It is wonderful that Celestron has finally realized their pricing was ridiculous in Australia and it is good to see that John Cross is being proactive in this regard. I am actually very surprised when I did a comparison earlier today, although it was long overdue. There now is little difference or indeed slightly better pricing on telescopes between Aussie and US prices, exchange, customs clearance, freight and GST considered. It is now on par. I don’t know about pricing on accessories though.

So, whilst I could say much about the poor state of some resellers and about the way I was treated, I do not see the point in doing so. It would achieve absolutely nothing, apart from stir up the passionate held views of some people, although it may also enlighten some others; certainly about how some people abrogate their responsibilities.

Cheers Peter

[glend]

Yeah, shoot the messenger. I was the one John contacted due to his awareness of my CGX tech support ticket (so he had my details), and my previous thread question.. I have no axe to grind, and am simply relaying for John in this case, and as i indicated to John, it will not be happening again. I am not the one making a big deal of anything. John told me he was following the thread, is that suppose to be a secret? You would prefer to not know that. " It seems stupid to tell everyone" in your words. Your not the only one reading this thread, and i know others might appreciate his interest. Take your issues and attitude to him and leave me out of it.

[Stardrifter_WA]

Forget it, I can't be bothered.

[netwolf]

The proof will be in the pricing.
C11 edge HD 5999AUD Celestron US 3399USD
C6 Evolution 2149AUD Celestron US 1299USD
C14 Edge HD 9999AUD Celestron US 5999USD

Also not you can't just add GST and Shipping to use retail price because one would assume the product is manufactured in China and shipped to US at a lower price than the US retail price. Or even if manufactured in America still would be less cost to the retailer than there price to consumers.

Celestron is not alone in this price deltas, you can see this with Many computer manufacturers also. Even though we know most computers are fully manufactured and assembled in China.

[Nikolas]

Exactly, until prices drop dramatically I don't see much happiness we are still being price gauged by Celestron

[casstony]

Personally I don't care what Celestron does with pricing, but I won't donate cash to them by buying new at regular prices in Australia. It would be better for local dealers if John does follow through on his promise to equalise pricing with overseas.

There are plenty of other options including buying other brands, buying used, buying on sale (eg. Recent CGEM sale) or buying overseas.

[dbowie]

From a totally novice SCT owner perspective I think Celestron has shot itself in the foot regards the Australian market, I started with an ol dump save Orange tube 1979ish C8 a few yrs ago which I cleaned up and turned out to have really good optics. I salivated for a new C8 even an Edge but was put off by the AU pricing/ disgruntled warranty issues etc. Then to be told by knowledgeable CN members it was probably better optically and build overall than "some" new model OTAs dumbfounded me, Edge excluded of course, my early ignorant purchases of cheap Celestron diags eyepieces etc were a total waste of money. Hence the learning curve. I bought a pristine C9.25 XLT OTA from IIS for $1k and TV eyepieces WO Diag etc QHY cameras Heq5 pro at fair market prices, I was discouraged from Celestron equivalent mount due to electronics issues/ support and forum comments. I now have an excellent visual and AP system that suits my needs at a realistic price, which I could onsell for cost easily. My point being I would have loyally bought all brand new Celestron from the get go upwards of $5K if prices, support and products were up to par with whats available in the US market. So whatever happens better Celestron pricing/ marketing in AUS won't affect me Ive made my choices they lost my new purchase custom already. I hope it helps others. I won't pass judgement on all Celestron products or experience and feel free to pick holes in my comments, regards Brenton

[Stardrifter_WA]

You make a good point there Netwolf. When I looked at pricing I didn't consider the freight direct from China, only the US, as that is where I usually get my stuff. It should be cheaper coming from China. It is double handled from China to the US and the US to Australia.

Additional, some of the stuff I have got out of China the freight has been ridiculously cheap anyway. Take my Williams FLT110, it cost a flat USD99 for freight and I had it in less than a week.

Cheers Peter

[Waxing_Gibbous]

I'm definately up for those steak knives tho'. Globals are fab. :thumbsup:

[Stardrifter_WA]

Hi Brenton,

You made some good points there Brenton.

Any company can sell a good product, deliver it quickly and give friendly service. That is not good customer service; that is their job!

The true measure of a company comes when you have a problem, and problems will always occur; there is no getting away from that, problems will from time to time occur, it’s the nature of manufacturing, and too often, can be poor quality control. I should know this better than most; I was once a production/service manager for a large listed international company.

It isn’t even the problem that is the real issue; it is how the problem is dealt with that is vitally important. Dealt with in a proper way and it builds loyalty and above all trust. I am very loyal to some companies because of the expedient way they deal with any with any problems. It clearly sets some companies apart from others. They also treat me as a valued customer. It was once said that, it is the customer that pays the staff wages, the company merely facilitates the handling of the money. Some companies have definitely forgotten that little gem.

Without going into detail, mostly because I cannot be bothered and it will serve no useful purpose. The way the problem was handled by Celestron and S&H was rather lacking in my view. I paid well in excess of $4,500 (with accessories) for my telescope and I would have expected that would last me more than a decade and it was still under warranty when the problem began. And to be fair, at the time, there was some issue as to whose was responsible for the warranty with the demise of York Optical. That isn’t the point though. Had either Celestron themselves or indeed S&H responded in the correct manner they would have had a loyal and vocal customer. I am certainly vocal about companies I trust. Celestron did try to help but it was obvious that we were never going to end up on the same page. Had they had an Australia repair facility, as does Meade, there would not have been any issues. Whichever way it went, it was going to cost me for what essentially was a warranty issue. Being told to buy a new scope or mount was galling, to say the least.

If I am to spend decent money on a telescope I expect to get good after sales service, particularly considering I am paying more for the telescope in Australia. I used to support a few companies in Australia, but when I didn’t get the service I expected, why should I pay more for a product in Australia? Why should I give them my business? So, where’s the value adding? One company treated me with utter disrespect and I will never deal with them again. The really sad thing is that they didn't think they did anything wrong. Fortunately though, I have enough respect for myself than to reward a company that disrespected me, even if they are the only place I can get stuff easily. And, let me be clear here, I do not give a toss whether they respect me or not, I am not bothered in the least, but they should respect my business, as it is the very lifeblood of their business.

The real problem that is facing Aussie business’ is one of complacency; times have been good, don’t need to go the extra mile. I am a person, if I want something; I buy it anyway, despite the cost or the state of the economy. I would have thought my business was valued for that reason alone. Apparently not! This isn’t just a problem with astro stuff either, other non astro companies have done the same. My criteria for selecting a company is not about price only. I have no issue paying more as long as I know after sales service is top notch and that they can service any unforeseen needs. That is, can they deal effectively with warranty issues. This is the lesson I have learned the hard way.

The real interesting point here is that I started dealing with US companies because of the lack of respect shown here, and have found their after sales service to be very high indeed. Some of these business' actually get it! For instance, I had an issue fitting a Moonlite focuser to my WO FLT110 scope, and it was not Moonlites fault either. It was an issue with Willaims changing the size of their threads. Ron at Moonlite went out of his way to resolve the issue and did so with surprising expediency, even though it wasn’t his responsibility. Williams abrogated their responsibility on the issue of poor focuser design, although it should be noted that they have since addressed the issue. It worked out okay in this instance though as the Moonlite focuser is just so cool! Stellavue was another company that went out of their way to resolve an issue and with a great deal of expediency. Do I trust Stellarvue now…absolutely. Vic Maris was awesome in the way he handled a warranty issue. In fact, on the strength of the way the warranty issue was handled, my last scope purchase was an SV70T from Stellarvue. So, when someone asks for a recommendation, how can I, in all honesty refer them to an Australian dealer who disrespected me and abrogated their responsibility? I only recommend brands and companies I have confidence in and who respect my business. Many business' have forgotten that word of mouth is an important marketing tool.

I have previously been met with howls of protest, and indeed some abuse, for not supporting certain Australian distributors, and this is both astro and non-astro. The reality is that it is my money and I will spend it where I jolly well like, and to hell with anyone who abuses me for not supporting local companies.

Besides, it isn’t their right that I have to deal them, it is actually a privilege. None of these items could be called a necessity really, as they are luxury items. Tough times are coming, and Australian companies need to wake up. Some companies I deal with here are very good though and I will remain loyal to them as they respect my business. They offer value adding to mitigate the higher prices.

Cheers Peter

[dbowie]

I hear you Peter if you can't stand by your product and supply warranty needs locally then have an arrangement in place to outsource the work to the many credible Optics independents who need work in AUS. Astro community's needs seem as diverse as the products and services available and just rebadging and mass marketing products won't promote innovation and service locally and abroad. SDM, Nexus, Saintech, Wildcard to name a few of many innovative AUS companies with world class products and services on offer deserve their place in a standalone sense not just gobbled up and rebadged by corporations and suppliers. US examples Moonlight, ADM Losmandy Feathertouch etc. seem to hold their own in a clone market with base support and just good products. When was the last time you saw at least 6 AUS made Astro products for sale on suppliers sites? To be fair to some suppliers in a lot of cases they too have become victims of this "globalisation" trend sometimes backed into a corner having to meet stringent distributors legal responsibilities and leave their passion and patriotism at home to pay wages and feed their families in a discerning marketplace. In the 2.5 yrs Ive been into this Ive seen some major changes in whats on offer its like a conveyor belt of exactly the same but different, bit sad really. it used to be diversify or die now it seems to be do what you have to to survive, although Ive mentioned products I think I might be heading off topic so ill leave my rant there, Im always up for some error/ fact check/ constructive critique, chrz Brenton..

[Stardrifter_WA]

You make a good point Brenton and John Cross also made the point that specialty stores are disappearing. What John may have failed to realise is that this actually isn't a new phenomenon. Globalisation and the Internet may be playing a part in the demise of some specialty stores, I have no doubt, but it is far from new.

If you go back to the 50', 60's and 70's Sky and Telescope magazines and have a look at the plethora of companies that existed back then and look now and see how many still exist. A lot of them are no longer in existence. Many of these businesses met their demise long before the advent of the Internet.

The history of Western Australian astro stores is a case in point. Over many years there have been 5 stores, that I know of, that have fallen by the wayside, for one reason or another. The first telescope store I saw was in the 60's called John Vann in Perth city. I used to drool over the 4" Unitron that he had in the window. I could never afford it, as I was just a dirt poor kid. There was a 6th store, but this went from having a physical premise to an online business, so I don't count that.

In my studies for a BA we are covering creativity and innovation and the one thing that never seems to get raised is market saturation. Take TV's for example; according to ACMA there are 2.4 TV's per household in Australia, yet we continue to be bombarded with ads for TV's. I have two large screen TV's myself, and I live alone.

A few days ago I was reading CNET Australia and the news that one of the manufacturers has introduced an 8K television, yet 4K is yet to be broadcast in Australia. Companies continually push the boundaries and bring out more innovative products to keep us buying, because the market is saturated. The reality is, no one really needs a 4K television. It's mostly a gimmick to keep us buying.

This is the same with telescopes, how many people really want them? Of those wanting a telescope, how many actually have one, or two or three or four? I have five, two of which are not serviceable. The reality is that the astronomy market isn't that big, and that is a major reason that specialty stores come and go, the market is just not big enough to be sustained indefinitely.

It may come as a surprise to some, despite the fact that I won't deal with some stores, I sincerely hope they all survive, as that is good for our hobby.

Cheers Peter

[AndrewJ]

Gday Peter
I think part of it also comes down to the relatively large "overhead" costs that ( brick and mortar ) businesses now have to pay, relative to the past.
Speaking to some traders in my local strip shops, rents are going up way faster than inflation, let alone dealing with all the insurances and taxes required before you can trade.
What is happening now is blocks of those shops are slowly being demolished and replaced with multi story dogboxes.
Includes a nice "architect designed" coffee shop downstairs, but thats about all.

Andrew

[ausastronomer]

I can't believe John Cross considers Australian Geographic a premium retailer of Astronomy Equipment. May as well add K-Mart and Big W into the mix.I have periodically browsed the Astronomy Equipment offerings at Australian Geographic stores for about 30 years and still haven't spoken to a staff member that actually had a clue what they were talking about.

Great stores for kids.

Cheers
John B

[glend]

This is straying way off being the update John provided. Suffice to say that the market Celestron services ranges from very basic, entry level equipment, through to high end fairly expensive equipment. Obviously some retailers focus on the entry level segment, and Celestron needs to be positioned to service it all. That does not mean that all of the four retailers cannot service any product request, only that their product demand mix onhand maybe different, which is no different from many retail businesses. Skywatcher has a similiar product mix offering. It it not helpful for members here to cast aspersions on Celestron's choice of retailers. You have to realise that the low end market is important in supporting the volumes, and margins, necessary to justify a presence in the market. Not everyone can afford an Obsession, or a SBM, and very few people would start with that choice, they need to get into astronomy at an entry level.
It is probably more appropriate to discuss general astronomy retailing in another thread. This one was informational and specific.

[dbowie]

Hi Glend how are you, all valid and pertinent points, sry to hijack your initial thread, I think the discussion although only regarding Celestrons new approach and commitment to the Australian market thru John Cross's new appointment does encompass all players inc consumers, did start to stray a bit as I noted. Im glad of and benefit from the diversity and cheaper good quality brands available in the market I would love an Edge HD and a Paramount or Losmandy mount, do I need or want it yet prob not so Im glad that we have the ability to own and learn from base level thru in a reasonable cost framework with the suppliers choice of stock and yes Celestron does provide extremely well with this, its just good market strategy which hasn't been lost on other chinese distributors. And yes some suppliers will cater for 'out of the box' items special ordered, which is great whilst keeping their baseline customers covered, theres not a lot of meat on the bones for these guys. I think comments just sought to point out how Celestrons share and commitment in the AUS market could be better overall surely thats a positive. I don't see where "aspersions" were cast on Celestrons choice of supplier ( please correct me if Im wrong) only its AUD cost and service regime thru these retailers. I have 2 Celestron OTAs and Ill def own more so Im a big fan, regards Brenton...

[Stardrifter_WA]

Yes Andrew, you are absolutely correct, the cost of doing business in Australia is skyrocketing. My local shopping centre Carousel (Cannington WA) is currently going through a $300 million upgrade. Every time I go in there, which isn't very often, there doesn't appear to be that many shoppers around. I frequently wonder how most of the stores in the centre survive. I wouldn't want to do it.

Cheers Peter

[Stardrifter_WA]

Glen, threads evolve, and it is still relevant to the overall market that Celestron operates in, so it is still "on topic". It is an open forum and my comments are relevant to the discussion in hand. I am sorry if my comments are not to your liking or upset you. You do have a choice, either put me on your ignore list or kick me off the site. I don't give a toss either way.

Valid points Brenton. It is likely I will, at some point, replace my SCT, as I want a portable instrument for the dark sky sight, but that is going to be a difficult choice. Should I buy a Meade SCT or should I buy a Celestron SCT? The answer should be quite clear, as I have long thought that the Celestron CPC style optics are the better of the two, so that is an easy choice, almost. I am simply no longer sure. The Edge optics I am not familiar with, other than through reviews, so I make no comment on them.

That then leaves me in a quandary. How can I trust that a new telescope purchased today will still be serviceable a decade from now and indeed, if the business I bought it from will still exist. Why should I even have to think about a replacement? Australia's track record in regard to businesses disappearing is sadly dismal, and that isn't a new phenomenon either. York Optical disappeared remember and they were fairly big. Shipping stuff back to China isn't an option either, due to cost and customs involvement.

Celestron have great products and are quite innovative and I will continue to buy them, that isn't the issue. My only issue with Celestron and indeed other non-astro is electronics. It is the electronics that is most likely to fail over time. I never buy anything from overseas with electronics in them, for the very reason that I have an Australian repairer I can go to. For example, Hartlands in Perth for camera repairs.

This is not an issue confined to Celestron either.

[Stardrifter_WA]

This has been an interesting discussion and quite enlightening.

Celestron and Meade SCT telescopes have had a long history in Australia and I hope that this continues into the future. The innovative nature of the new Celestron masters has seen some really interesting developments, although there has been some issues along the way. I do recognise that changing from one master to another can be a difficult transition and that there were lost opportunities. Hopefully, that is all behind us now.

I have bought, even as recently as a couple of weeks ago, Celestron products and they are well made, no doubting that really. Cost of telescopes and accessories remain an issue though, but that is only my view. As a savvy consumer I know what I am prepared to pay and in most cases I see value for money. When I don't, I look elsewhere. Whether Celestron likes it or not, the consumer here can easily access prices overseas and quite rightly has issues with the price here, as there are discrepancies that cannot be accounted for by the usual suspects, exchange rates, freight, etc.

Easy Internet access is making life very difficult for retailers, particularly from savvy consumers who look up the best Australian price before venturing into store. I do this all the time. It is a pain in the arse for retailers, but that is the world we live in, and they have to adjust. Bunnings Hardware adjusted to this reality very early on by beating any advertised price by 10%. That has been hugely successful for them. Because of the easy access to the Internet, savvy consumers are holding retailers to account, whether they like it or not. It is the new reality!

Sometimes I pay the higher prices, as there is definitely "value adding". If I know I am going to get better after sales care, I will pay the extra, after all, that does have a cost. Loyalty is a hard thing to attain, but it is also the easiest thing to lose, and, astonishingly, some businesses do not care.

Retailers have to do a better job of convincing the customers that they are important and that there are reasons for higher costs, like after sales service, if indeed they can even offer it; remember it comes at a cost. As Brenton pointed out, margins are getting squeezed, although that has long been the case anyway, so nothing has really changed there.

Consumers simply have no knowledge of the true cost of doing business in Australia, all they see is the price, compared to other domestic and overseas prices. This situation is probably going to get worse with the entry of Amazon into Australia, if the rumours are true. They certainly drove down prices in the US, and they service their customers quickly. I know this as I buy stuff from Amazon, through a US address, for those hard to get items.

It is hoped that John Cross, the BDM for Celestron, can continue to push down prices in what is a difficult market place in Australia. At some point there will be a downturn, we have had an extraordinary period of growth that cannot last. We haven't had a recession since 1991.

Warranty issues remain a concern, particularly if it is to be left to the individual stores. Yes, they should indeed be the first port of call, as many issues can be resolved fairly quickly. It is major warranty issues that concern me, particularly if the retailer disappears. The long term availability of electronic parts is another issue that needs to be addressed, as that is often what fails first, at least, in my experience. Indeed, it is probably the only thing that is likely to fail, as mechanically Celestron are well built overall. I still see orange tube Celestron's in action.

Better marking of electronic parts for future reference would also be a good move. I have had issues with indentifying of electronic parts in the past. A lack of standardisation across models has been an issue, as manufacturers keep changing everything, in the name of innovation. It makes parts identification difficult.

It is my understanding that both Celestron and Skywatcher are owned by Synta Technology Corporation of Taiwan, so maybe a coordinated approach to warranty issues can be carried out in Australia. It is also my understanding that Skywatcher Australia has 'in house' warranty repairs for Meade telescopes, as their agent.

I guess the complex company arrangements would not allow a coordinated approach to warranty work. It makes it rather difficult for the consumer not having a central repair facility instead of relying on retail outlets, that may or may not be around in the future when they are needed, as was my situation with York Optical, which led to a mess, and made me an unhappy customer.

Celestron products are quality products that should not have many issues arise in the immediate future. However, these are not throw away products that have a built in redundancy, they should last for a lifetime.

I wish John Cross the best in his endeavours to continue Celestron's presence in Australia, with the hope that we see better prices and better after sales care. If prices come down, I may begin to contemplate replacing my troubled Celestron SCT. Here's hoping, although it won't change my lack of trust immediately.

Cheers Pete

[Hol_dan]

I don"t know what you are meaning here John? My local AG store has a nice looking Nexstar 8 SE on display, some times without dust caps, complete with a layer of dust, kids finger smudges and just yesterday, soap bubbles on it from the staff blowing hundreds of bubbles into the air for the kids in the store. 😬

[Hol_dan]

Where does Andrews com source their Celestron products from if not from authorised channels?

[glend]

Grey market imports. They used to do the same with Skywatcher gear, buy in bulk from overseas wholesalers (could be ex-display stock from dealers, dealer closing down stock, factory seconds, etc) and bring in containers. Tasco (the Skywatcher import agent) put the lawyers on them and they finally settled, now Andrews gets all its Skywatcher stuff from Tasco.

Andrews does have a direct importer relationship with GSO. I believe the GSO stock goes into a bonded warehouse until one is sold at which time they bring it out. This is a good way to avoid tying up alot of money in stock. GSO probably retains ownershop until the sale by Andrews - but it could be done in other ways too.

Re Celestron gear, i am sure John Cross will be taking an interest, but unless they claim exclusivity through Celestron Australia, and get the lawyers involved, there is not much Celestron can do, other than cutting off his overseas sources. If you buy a grey import they are usually sent to you in boxes with the brand labels cut off, bar codes removed, etc. Nothing that can be used to trace it back. And any warranty has to be through Andrews, you would not get a Celestron warranty.

[Stardrifter_WA]

What is wrong with Andrews grey importing, he makes no secret of it and, from some accounts, he backs what he sells. The reality is that Celestron products are well made, so warranty issues should be at a minimum anyway. I was just unlucky.

Exclusive agreements may be fair to those that sell Celestron, and I can understand that as being fair. It really is fair if you want the after sales service. However, the other side of that equation is why should I be told that I have to deal with a specific reseller if I want Celestron.

Too bad if I don't like any of the current choices of dealers then. I already have a primary supplier, but he cannot sell me any Celestron. I don't think that is fair, at all. But, I get around these restrictions, it just sucks having to go to the extra trouble. I don't buy anything too complex though due to warranty issues. I rarely have any issues and I have only returned a couple of things over the past five years. I have saved far more than it has cost me.

Celestron won't dictate to me where I have to buy, just as you can't dictate to me what to write on this thread. You have no control over me short of kicking me off this site, and I certainly have no issue with that anyway. I really don't like being told what I can and can't do, and that goes to the heart of Australia being a democracy. At least, it was, the last time I looked. I think we still have a choice.

But, to be fair, if I do bite the bullet and buy another Celestron, there is, at least, one dealer in Australia I would buy it from, as long as the price is right, which it isn't, yet.

Whether we like it or not it is a global marketplace. I buy most of my gear online now, both locally and overseas.

I admire your tenacity in defending Celestron. I have no issue with any current Celestron products, as they are very good, by all accounts, and reasonably affordable. It is my fervent hope that nobody else has the same issue I had, and I doubt any will. As I said, I was just unlucky, but it could have been handled better though. It was a set of unfortunate events that transpired due to relationship breakdowns and changes.

Cheers Pete

[Stardrifter_WA]

You will be happy to know glen, I am out of this conversation.

Bye

[glend]

Moderator please lock this thread, it is way off the original topic and serves no further purpose.