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yoda776
03-02-2017, 07:23 PM
Hi everyone,

Bit of a newbie at this, but took a few photos with the DSLR.
I have a canon 350D with Ha filter and Canon 450D (no mods). I have attached 4 photos (not stacked). Each labelled in file name.

Reasonably chufed I actually got some images at all to be honest and the wife was impressed. I know they will never win any prizes but it feels like a good start! :)

I actually took most photos through my LX200 8". A couple of questions.

1) How do you set up the DSLR so it has the best focus? I was trying to use the viewfinder and had nothing else. I was told some cameras show it on the back screen. Not sure if these do have an ability to show on screen. i know my photos seem a little out of focus.
2) What is the best ISO range for taking deep sky objects? I was sitting at ISO1600 (think I am recalling correctly!). I took 30 sec, 1 minute and 90 second exposures. Found that over 2 minutes had too much noise in brightness for Orion.
3) Is there a preferred exposure time for DSOs? I understand stacking is better but would like to know length of exposure.
4) Also when accumulating exposures of an object is there a good range or magic number to take for stacking (particularly in these examples)?

Thank you in advance for your help. :help: :thanx:

JA
03-02-2017, 08:03 PM
Hi Yoda,

I'm no expert ...., but in the video(s) below, this guy is (these guys are) another story....

BTW To focus use your Canon 450D in live view mode with LCD magnifier (Upto 10x ?) set to ON (Much easier than using optical viewfinder at night). Use moon as start and take test image and also retest and take test image on object of interest. No Autofocus. If using optical viewfinder make sure eyepiece correction is correct for you. Around ISO 800 or 1600 should be good (maybe even 400).

Best
JA

https://youtu.be/PZoCJBLAYEs


also try....

https://youtu.be/EO4QFb3ydNM

glend
03-02-2017, 08:05 PM
Hi Matt, welcome to the world of imaging. Where to start, the scope first i think. The LX200 has a focal ratio of f10, which in photographic terms means it is relatively slow to gather light but gives good magnification. I see you have other scope as well. It might be easier to learn the ropes on one of the other scopes, like the ED80. Do you have reducers for any of those scopes? Re the Canons, i know the 450D has a rear Liveview screen which makes focusing easier. Try and download a Bahtinkov mask (aka a focus mask) - you can getvpdf files online which you can cut out to create a very good focus aid, you can also but them from Bintel. These make sharp focus easy, get the size that fits your preferred scope, one size will not fit all.
With ISO, the higher the number the greater the noise. With a fast scope (say f5) you could shoot at ISO800, which is a good working speed for the 450D. Exposure time is going to depend on the speed of your scope ( f ratio), andbthe magnitude of your target. I would forget the Ha filter for now, it is much harder to gather light though one and produce an image on a dslr (this is because of internal blocking filters, and low red pixel population in the sensor.).

Hope that helps, i am sure others will be along with more info.

yoda776
03-02-2017, 08:52 PM
Thanks JA - they are great videos and on processing photos as well. Mnay thanks. :thanx:

Anth10
03-02-2017, 08:54 PM
Hi there,
there are many ways to achieve reasonable results and with experimentation you will get the right formula for your setup. I use a canon dslr and agree that the best way for focusing is to utilise the live view screen. I like to aim at a star with a moderate magnitude and focus so that the diffraction spikes are coincident(this is with a Newtonian) otherwise maximise the camera zoom function on a star and focus till nice and round.
The f10 is slow so you can afford to perhaps raise the ISO to 3200 for say 30seconds - 60 seconds and I would recommend 10 subs as a minimum to stack.
This would of course be a starting point to trial as the conditions and objects apparent brightness will alter your ISO and exposure time.

I understand that using a ha filter can be difficult to focus using a dslr particularly when the object you are imaging doesn't have any bright stars in the f.o.v. - therefore aim at a star as above and when happy with your focusing you can slew back to your dso.

Good luck Yoda, the fun is in having a go! I'm sure you will succeed.

yoda776
03-02-2017, 09:04 PM
Thanks Glen.

Like to soak info up like a sponge! ;)

Ok canon 450D has a liveview - awesome. That will make that part easier. I will focus on the ED80 (it is F6) and try ISo800. I figured the ISO 1600 is noisy. I will look at Bahtinov mask too. The 130mm is an F5.

I wondered about the Ha filter n the 350D and the fact that it felt more difficult at this time. although I got not bad photos with it.

Thanks the info is helpful and building on what i am getting this will give a great overall 'picture' of what I need to do.

yoda776
03-02-2017, 09:06 PM
Thanks for the advice Anth on difference between the slow f speed and ISO. i like the LX200 because of the magnification. I really need to get out there and try the liveview screen. The bright star I got when using the viewfinder (it was the only way to get even close after taking a few photos and realising how bad they were out of focus!).

Sounds like a few items of thought to try out. :thanx::thumbsup:

yoda776
03-02-2017, 09:13 PM
Yes I do have the Orion reducer and spacer kit I grabbed for the ED80.

glend
03-02-2017, 11:35 PM
Start with your fastest scope would be my advice, if that is the 130 then that is good because you will get more apeture as well, and you can forget about a reducer. The130 might have some field curvature if you do not have a flattener but it should be ok to get started.
Pick out some bright targets, like Orion, and the Tarantula, and go from there. Howcare you controlling the camera? A simple interval meter will work, or you can start using BYEOS, which would need a laptop to connect to the camera. If your not at that point yet, just use an interval meter yo set up your run. Take some exposures and save them to your computer, then download DSS to stack them for you.

redbeard
04-02-2017, 04:20 AM
Hi Yoda,

I have a 450D and LX200GPS 10" which I use all the time when AP, so here are some tips from me with this rig:
In order of appearance I have in the train: Scope/Moonlite focuser/focal reducer/450D with nose piece into the focuser.

450D wins here because of live view, 350D does not have it which makes life harder.

Use a 6.3 focal reducer,(Celestron, Meade etc).
Watch out for the newer Meade's FR though, I've heard they are different somehow.


1) Definitely use some software on a laptop, I use BYEOS as it has great features to make focus easy. Electric focuser, (I use a moonlite which rocks as I can put the focal reducer inside it and it's at the right spot), the Meade Zeroxx is perfect as well.

The way the focusing works by using BYEOS is click a button in the software to go into a live view type mode, this has a large area which shows bullseye for centering and other good stuff and is a live view. It has next to it another area which is magnified so you can use that to make the star on screen as small as possible. There is even a readout in numbers that measure the size of the star and the lower the number, the better the focus.

I also use the bahtinov mask as well, as again, the software and live view makes it so easy to use. It takes seconds to focus and this is always a double check from the other method and vice-versa.

The first part of course is finding the star to focus on but you have that bit sorted.

2) I use ISO800 most times, 1600 is way too noisy on the 450D in my opinion. Actually 800 is still a bit noisy as compared to 400 and others have also recommended 400 to me. Reason being, 400, less noise twice as long exposure vs more noise and half the exposure time. They say better signal to noise ratio when using 400. Also depends on guiding times etc.

When using the software for framing the view etc, set a high ISO when lining up on the object you are viewing and don't forget to go back to 400/800 when taking your subs. Experiment a bit here as well, give ISO800 a go then give 400 a go. Compare results.

3) Depending on your mount/polar alignment/guiding system determines how long your subs can be. Again, the 6.3FR makes all the difference here as you get more field of view than F10 and it's faster. I keep my FR connected all the time on the Meade.
I am no expert here but for Orion Neb I use 2 minutes@800, same for Eta Carinae Neb. Try 3 minutes on Eta and compare. Galaxies for me are better at 5-7 minutes ISO800 with good guiding of course. That's about my limit with Meade tripod and a wedge.
Galaxies may be better at 400 ISO but need longer time and a good mount/guiding.
The camera sensor temperature can creep up too on long exposures and other factors like light pollution, summer vs winter temps etc.
All worth considering when determining exposure length.
With my rig, stacking is always necessary as you want more than 1 exposure as well as Darks, Flats and Bias shots.

4) As for stacking, the more subs the better. For my first Orion Neb, I took about 25 frames 2 mins @800ISO, Couple of years later took 52 frames and heaps better. I would like to have tried 200 subs as a test because I've seen some amazing pics here on IIS with heaps of subs/data and they look amazing.

I didn't do the short exposure trick to show the trapezoid like a lot of people do with Photoshop as I'm ordinary at processing.
Darks, Flats and Bias shots are also the way to go with the 450D.
I usually take a few more of these other shots than the lights, so 50 lights, 63 darks etc. No real reason why as there are so many views on this but for now, it's fine.

Here is a link to where I have uploaded the photos I have taken with my scope, they are ordinary compared to most you see here on IIS but it will show what what I have done as most have been taken on the 450D and LX200. Most pics don't have a lot of subs,(15 - 30), but you will see that with not much data the DSLR has made me happy with what I have so far.

http://redbeardpix.wordpress.com

Let me know if you need any clarifications.

Cheers,

Damien :thumbsup:

pixelsaurus
04-02-2017, 08:58 AM
If you feel like a good read, you could start here: http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/nightscapes/

yoda776
04-02-2017, 10:04 AM
Fastsst scope is 130mm at f5. Is a sextuplet, which has built in flattener as a result.
I also use an interval meter. Thanks for the advice on the software. I know i will go laptop eventually but staying with interval meter for now.

yoda776
04-02-2017, 10:05 AM
Will give the a view thank you. Without clear skies might have some time to read! ;)

yoda776
04-02-2017, 10:10 AM
Thanks damien that is a lot of useful info and pretty much the same gear as me so thaat is great to compare setup. I have a meade zero image focuser i was going to sell but will keep now. I also have a meade 6.3 and 3.3 reducer. I am happy taking photos and not being perfect as i will get better (i hope :lol:) and have something worthy of printing out and putting on the wall to say 'i took that!' :) some of the info on this thread has been most useful and informative. Just has to assimilate it all and use it to determine on my setup. Some experimentation sounds like the go as well to get the sweet spot of configuration and settings. Thanks again yours and others posts are mkst useful :thanx::thumbsup:

kon1966
04-02-2017, 11:07 AM
Started off the same way, what I found easiest in the beginning to save my knees was..
Download DSLR Controller software for android to your tablet or phone.
Connect canon cable from camera to tablet
When you start dslr controller, you can control exposure settings without touching the camera but you can now focus from your focuser as you can see what your camera sees on your tablet.
Slew to a bright star and there is a 5x and 10x mag button. Focus gently on the star. Once done go to 1x for normal view and adjust time and exposure settings.
You can preview the image on your tablet as well.
I have gone further and can now remote to camera with dslrcontroller and use a bahintov mask.
Remember to set camera to 10 sec countdown as that will eliminate shake.

https://dslrcontroller.com

Did below for wireless control of my eos.
https://dslrcontroller.com/guide-wifi_mr3040.php

Regards
Kon

yoda776
06-02-2017, 06:21 AM
Thanks kon, i will look into the software. Think it costs around $10.99 for android. Is there a place where you grab the cable from to link the android tablet (samsung) to the canon camera?

Mosc_007
06-02-2017, 04:03 PM
When I started with DSLR's I was using the Free Software EOS Backyard. It's functional. If you don't mind a modest cost, Nebulosity is a great program. Simple USB cable between PC and Camera.

Controlling the Camera from a laptop makes focusing and capturing images so much easier. After using a Stock 100D and Modded 1100D for about 18 months I have now started using a QHY10 CCD and ZWO 1600 Cmos. I like the ease of use with the DSLR, but nothing beats the realistic colours from the CCD or Cmos Dedicated Cameras.

BTW, They are great images from your DSLR.

jenchris
06-02-2017, 05:21 PM
I use an 8 inch meade and a 450d
I use the camera on 800iso as it is native for that camera.
If you are polar aligned (as in using a wedge ) you should be able to get about a minute or so without any problem without guiding.
Use stacking as it does give you far more detail. And removes a lot of noise.
In this summery temp, there may well be a noise bar from the battery. This will show as a red bar alongvthe bottom of the image.
Shorten the exposure or get an external power source.

I also use Apt as a camera control. This is a free download but consider paying the 23 dollrs. It's worth it.
It aids in focus and exposure setup. Good prog.
Pic taken with 8 inch meade and 450d

kon1966
07-02-2017, 03:52 PM
You can use your standard USB to micro sd cable which comes with the tablet. I have a adapter and can post to you, just pm me your details and I will post.

Regards
Kon

yoda776
07-02-2017, 07:48 PM
Thank you for comments on the photos. I will try for connection to laptop eventually. I have a shutter controller which seems to work well at the moment. I am looking forward to CCD imaging.

yoda776
07-02-2017, 07:53 PM
Thanks Jennifer. I might try the settings as this is close to my setup. i will move to stacking but thought first outing was single shots for the moment and getting focus and I have some awesome tips so far :thumbsup:

I have a guider on its way so I am going to see what I can do with that as well. Nice photo by the way. i am hoping to aspire to some of the DSLR photos i have seen on here.

yoda776
07-02-2017, 07:57 PM
Thanks for the offer Kon. I have PM'd you about it. I think using the tablet might a good option and lighter than a laptop.
Regards,
Matt

JFHimaging
08-02-2017, 12:55 PM
Very useful tips and helping me out too. Thanks. :thanx: