What to upgrade next?

[thegableguy]

Hi all

I think I already know the sensible answer, but it's not the answer I want - so throwing it to more experienced astrophotographers to knock some sense into me and make sure I don't do something stupid.

I'm currently using an ED80 with 0./85 flattener, shooting with a crop-sensor Nikon DSLR, all riding on an unguided NEQ6 mount. I have two full-frame Nikons I can use, as well as two Barlows (2x and 5x). I also have the Nikon 70-200mm zoom.

With all these at my disposal I can get a bunch of different focal lengths. I've attached some photos ranging from the full-frame through the flattener to the crop-sensor through both Barlows.

I'm keen to get more magnification and am looking at a simple steel 10" f/4 Newt as the next upgrade.

My question: is it just plain stupidity to buy such a thing without first getting a guiding system? I've had some success with 90-second unguided subs at around 760mm with a small OTA; how will that translate to a much heavier 1000mm OTA? Will the increase in magnification make for a significant increase in difficulty, or will the much larger aperture and shorter subs mean I'm still likely to get some decent results?

OR:

Am I far better off cooling my jets, putting an icepack on my focal length fever, and obtaining & learning to use a guiding system before leaping into 1000mm + territory?

Like I say, I'm pretty sure I already know the answer. I just see all these amazingly detailed galaxies & nebulae you guys post and I start drooling. Limited budget means I need to be smart and not go backwards with any purchases; I'll inevitably need a guiding system so it makes vastly more sense to get it. I know. BUT I WANT MOAR MAGNIFICATION.

[Atmos]

Technically you could possibly use your ED80 as a guide scope on a 10" newt but I would probably suggest using a lighter guide scope.

Ultimately if you're wanting to go bigger you WILL want to be guiding. I personally would suggest getting guiding down pat to begin with before heading down the much larger path of a 10" newt :)

[doppler]

There are quite a few here using a 10" newt on a neq6 mount. The big aperture means you can get away with shorter subs. The biggest issue with a larger scope is getting the balance right. Here is some pics taken with short subs on a very unguided mount.

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=125986.

[Somnium]

is there any particular reason why you want a longer fl? My recommendation is get an autoguider package that you can use with your 80mm now and get some amazing, deep wide field images! There are some spectacular objects that you just won't be able to fit in the fov at 1000mm . If you then decide to upgrade the ota you can use that system to guide as well. I had the exact same idea, I got a 80mm scope with the intention that it would eventually become my guide scope for my 10" newt. But I used an Orion autoguider package and never looked back. I couldn't justify the additional weight of the 80mm and it sat in my study. Be aware, if you get a newt you will want a coma corrector, trust me.

I haven't been bothered to sell any of my gear, I still have a 10" newt, autoguider , guide scope , baader mpcc , autofocus system. Let me know if you want any of it.

[thegableguy]

Rick - those shots look great. I've imaged all those targets with the ED80 and the extra reach makes all the difference. I've got a good mount with goto capability so will guide one day, but it's good to know it's possible without - particularly with a full frame DSLR.

Aidan - we joked about how I'll likely buy all your used gear eventually... it may actually happen that way!

Why more focal length? Because GALAXIES, as I know full well you understand! The ED80 ain't cutting it for galaxies, or really any nebulae besides Carina. I look at my Eagle Nebula next to yours and think "nope, this won't do at all I'm afraid". I know your new rig outstrips a 10" Newt but it would be a lot closer. In any case I'd keep the ED80, which combined with the 10" would give a massive range of focal length possibilities.

[Somnium]

Fair enough, i got into astrophotography knowing exactly what i wanted to image, it was always galaxies and galaxy clusters for me so i know what you mean. don't forget that there is some amazing targets around orion and sagg to shoot, you can get multiple targets into a single FOV. if you still have your Dob, i might entertain a switch, i am looking for a visual telescope.

[traveller]

Chris, my two cents worth.
Learning guiding first. An ED80 with a reducer will be very forgiving, so a 50mm mini guidescope will do nicely. This is essentially what I had with my ED 80 setup (with just a flattener and not a reducer).
I am trying to get my 10" f4 working with an OAG, but only achieved moderate success so far. It is also more of a hassle setting up and packing down. I also found that a 10" newt will require three counter weights and an extension to your standard EQ6 counterweight shaft http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=132487
The other option, if money is burning a hole in your pocket, is to upgrade to a triplet APO. I did a bit of research on this and was seriously considering a Skyrover 115 or a Sharpstar 116 until a good deal on a WO FLT 110 came my way http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showpost.php?p=1260423&postcount=1621
I also got a reducer for the FLT as focal ratio is a key factor in AP.
Bottom line, learn guiding first as you will need it when you move up the FL. Get a 8" f4 newt unless you want to modify your mount shaft and get another counterweight.
And consider a triplet APO is money is not tight.
Cheers
Bo