Brexit and English Footy

[graham.hobart]

A bad week to be a Pommie- but at least we can laugh at it. My favourites so far I have seen - " only England can get kicked out of Europe twice in a week", and the other one was " flood Warning in the West Country, due to most of Wales pissing itself laughing!!
Not going to get into the rights and wrongs, but there is plenty of humour going around, especially re. the Soccer. I actually laughed when I heard the result as nothing typifies the English soccer superstar culture more than this quote I can't remember who from- " I have nothing against Football (soccer) but I have better things to do than to waste two hours watching a group of millionaires chase a bag filled with air around in their underwear"
Good on Iceland I say. :rofl:
Graz

[traveller]

Best post so far, England manager is paid $6.5 million a year, Iceland's manager is a part time dentist.

[AstralTraveller]

So that's the motivation!!

"Win this game or ya in the chair next week."

[MortonH]

Makes me glad Scotland didn't qualify!

[The Mekon]

Q. What's the difference between a tea bag and the English football team?
A. A tea bag stays in the cup longer.

[astroron]

Nothing like putting the slipper in when some ones down,but this time
it is well and truly deserved, the English team where woeful :sadeyes:
Cheers:thumbsup:

[barx1963]

I am in Londaon at the moment, lots of long faces here! Cannot find one person happy about the Brexit.

Malcolm

[blink138]

............ yet there was more than half.......!

before emails we used to say "they were home before their postcards!"
pat

[AndrewJ]

I guess for those who can afford to live in London, the state of the economy doesnt affect them as much as those living in the decimated midlands etc.
Bit like here now, where if you live/work in the city, you are ( generally ) a lot better off than the rest.
The rich are getting richer by offshoring the jobs of the poor, and if they arent careful, the mass of unemployed poor wil ark up. Just look at the number of people here deserting the major parties.

Andrew

[AussieTrooper]

This. Pommie expats I've spoken to are generally somewhat glum about what has happened to their former home in recent years. Of course those who have made money off this are quite content with the situation.

Given that there will be economic repercussions, there has to be some pretty p****ed off people to make such a drastic decision.

[simmo]

You guys obviously don't watch the rugby or you're still in denial. :(

[JB80]

Most Brits I know are devastated by the poll results and the complete economic and political freefall they are now witnessing which if the results are actually passed by parliament will result in the Great British Break up.

Still it is such a mess that there stands a good chance that the best way forward is to pretend the election never happened.

Most Europeans I have spoken too are also rather angry about it and should they file article 50 then it will only be seen as good riddance and the EU leadership has made this very clear already.
That little island has put all our futures under threat.

This has been a sad week for the EU, there are no winners.

[simmo]

Really I don't see what the fuss is about. They voted, decision made and over 1 million people more, get over it. Is life all about money or am I mistaken that there are many facets to living life.

Lot of propaganda from the media and we are eating it up, well not me as I see it for what it is. The whole time before referendum all I saw on TV was a majority of footage of the stay side with small snippets of leavers. Now after the decision all we get is footage of boohooers not happy. even the abc breakfast couldn't interview someone from the leave side they had a guy from the stayers who cried the whole interview. Not one media outlet has played a happy leaver. Why? I know but do you?

Jump in line and sing the tune of the one in front.

I for one am sick of the rubbish that media regurgitates.

As I see it it's like when someone in a group decides that they can do better and decide to leave and the people who are left can't see they'd elevate themselves by following but instead stand around feeling bitter and backstab. The person who left though gets on with life and finds they are better off.

[JB80]

Well I for one can't wait for them to file article 50, they never wanted to be a part of it fully anyway so as you rightly say the people have spoken and it's time for them to jog on and deal with it.
Although at this point not any of their leaders are prepared to do it mainly because they have no leaders and are too busy squabbling amongst themselves than actually working out what to do next as they never had a plan during the campaign let alone now.

As Cameron said when he resigned...
"Why should I do all the hard s**t for someone else"

Still I don't see them leaving, the vote is in no way binding and considering everything they promised the leave campaign is fiction is going to be about saving face.

[AussieTrooper]

This was probably a major cause of it. With a couple of exceptions, the media is generally quite left wing on issues like this, and people get sick of it. This is the kind of thing that has led to the rise of Trump. If government and media actually listened, then he wouldn't have stood a chance of even getting a nomination, let alone presidency.

The EU plans to bring in more poor eastern European nations, and even Turkey, which would greatly increase the burden on the more affluent members.
The EU is even trying to fine nations who refuse to accept their 'share' of the recent migrants.
The UK did enjoy EU benefits for a long time, but it has chosen the right time to get out.

[andyc]

"They voted, decision made and over 1 million people more, get over it."
Or maybe people are exceptionally upset that an essentially irreversible decision (far more so than any election) might happen on the basis of some of the biggest lies a campaign has ever seen. Lies about less immigration while having access to the single market, lies about £350M to the NHS for example that were admitted to be false by the key exit campaigners within a few hours of the polls closing.

The vote was a huge protest by large disenfranchised parts of northern England, ably helped by a healthy chunk of older xenophobes (look at the demographics). It was democratic in that people went to the polling booths, but that's about all, given that the basis for leaving was (a) demonstrable lies as above, and (b) had precious little to do with the EU, in that leaving won't fix the problems in England, or the issues highlighted in the campaign. Some brexiters are now wondering what the EU is, what those little blue signs next to infrastructure in their towns actually means, regretting their 'protest vote', and rather unhappy that they were fooled into thinking the NHS would be funded by right-wing Tories.

The outlook is not easy:
1- go with the decision and leave the EU, legitimising utter dishonesty in this travesty of democracy, damaging the UK economy enormously, probably breaking up the UK, and threatening the stability of a continent. And total political turmoil in the UK.
2- attempt to reverse or ignore the decision. Better for any sense of reason, but carrying a real threat of severe civil disorder from the very people disenfranchised enough to protest, who would feel rightly aggrieved that they were not listened to, again, even if many of then were taken in by the lies the first time round.

Any alternatives, because I can't see a good one here? I'm not surprised the only happy person anyone can find is Nigel Farage. :(

[AndrewJ]

Gday Andy
Let em go and see what happens. It might just work, but some of the high flyers at the top might have to take a haircut as part of the process.
How many times do you see large companies that have become too unwieldy break up into smaller more efficient units????
The current economic model of a need for "constant growth" means that once you get to the size of the EU, there is nowhere else to go, and it will start to rot from within, so lets see if a smaller "economic unit" ( ie country ) can function better.

Andrew

[astroron]

Andy and others slamming the leavers, view this video.
The referendum was much more than immigration.
Going by your post the leavers told lies,so did the stayers.

https://www.youtube.com/user/OxfordUnion

Cheers:thumbsup:

[andyc]

So it's ok to tell utter porkies "because the other kids did it too"? Would you accept that excuse from a child? Go against all the experts because you don't like them (Gove). Remember the lop-sidded nature of this, the decision is irreversible in one direction, not the other.

[Camelopardalis]

You have to analyse the distribution of the vote to understand the dynamic. London voted to remain. The rest of England voted to leave (pretty much).

London is a large multicultural trading hub. The rest of the country not. There had been a number of directives over the years that were seen to "dictate" from afar how life in merry old England should be. Merry old England said enough is enough.

Trade will be negotiated over a matter of time. It's in both sides' interests. The UK is the second largest economy in Europe so life will carry on. A simple example is that Germany, France and Italy sell too many cars into the UK for them to want to miss out, when push comes to shove.

It might be a rough few years to come but that was already underway. The ECB can't just keep dipping its hands in its pockets for failing states and get nothing in return. That doesn't balance the books.

Cameron is probably right, ethically, he's stepping down because the majority voted against his leadership, and it's not really appropriate for him to be negotiating the future. The other Euro leaders are just looking out for the interests of their countries too.

[Camelopardalis]

On the eve-eve of an election here, this is equally relevant... isn't telling porkies to get a vote what politicians do? ;)

[andyc]

That is of course true (spectacularly so 3 years ago), but usually the electorate gets a chance to re-evaluate their decision within 3-5 years. This time, they do not.

[Camelopardalis]

From what I understand, Cameron and previous PMs had been negotiating the UK's position with Europe for decades, the EU leaders even stated that. But it's curious how those same leaders are now repositioning for "reform" when maybe if they'd done that before now it wouldn't have ended the way it did :shrug:

Btw, I'm just playing advocate, the issues aren't as simple as just border control, you have to consider welfare, agriculture, etc.

[astroron]

Give us a break, what world do you live:shrug:
Since when has politics on either side of the table been honest:question:
Can you stand/sit there and with a straight face say you have never in your adult life told an untruth to gain advantage.:question:

BTW if Cameron had done the right thing and put out a for and against in a proper and just way,maybe it could have been different,but I dont think so
He withheld information for the leave case even from his own ministers and cabinet, forbidding it to be released while flooding the airwaves with stay propaganda.
The man has no honour.

The fall out of this is mainly financial,because the money grubs took their money and ran.
Have you noticed the markets are coming back,now that they reallise the sky didn't fall in.

I really dont think you listened to or watched that video,I suggest you do ,it might just give you a different slant on your view.
Cheers:thumbsup:

[multiweb]

The damage was already done the day they decided on a referundum to leave or stay. Regardless of change of heart or what might have happened it's done and dusted now. It is very unfortunate for England. Very hard times ahead IMHO but then again poms are very resilient so let's wait and see. I wish all the best to all of those affected.

[andyc]

As a professional who works with hard data every day, I'd lose my job if I lied to a client/colleague about important information. Prison wouldn't be out of the question. Personally I would *never ever* lie in a circumstance that would substantially affect others, let alone the direction of a whole country. If somebody asked me to, I'd be off out the door first. I'm actually very stubborn on that point, and I need not say what I think this insinuation to be. If you think it's alright to take a decision to jump on a one-way ticket to a destination that the drivers don't know, based on massive direct lies, as already admitted, then that's your problem.:shrug: I live, and would like to continue living, in a world governed by at least some sense of reason, where large decisions have the support of evidence, and where there is some sense of accountability against those who would be so destructive and deceitful for their own gain. That world is disappearing with the likes of Johnson, Gove, Farage, Abbott and Trump. And my country is tearing itself apart.

To avoid anything further, I'll leave this conversation, as this isn't really the place for it. :( Clear skies, and hope for a peaceful outcome of all this.

Oh, and Áfram Island!!

[AussieTrooper]

Yep. There are just as many people buying and making just as many things. If the EU wants to thumb it's nose at the UK, then there will be no shortage of other countries happy to make new trade deals that aren't hampered by EU red tape.
There may be some short term issues, but it will return to normal.

[jonesalice34]

A sad thing that common people will suffer at the end. Brokers believe in the slight fall of prices in England and Spain. However the weak pound will play its part to attract new foreign investors in London. A piece on the topic https://tranio.com/united-kingdom/news/real-estate-markets-could-wobble-as-uk-votes-to-leave-the-eu_5152/, pay attention to the part "the real estate market in Britain may benefit from heightened foreign interest" (but not its residents)

[Tandum]

I just arrived home from that side of the planet this evening. My scottish relatives are pissed that eastern europeans are taking peoples jobs, but really the bulk of the work has been outsourced to china. My wife's english relatives however revel in the diversity which now surrounds them, but they are retired.

It's obvious immigration was the big issue. We spent almost 2 weeks in the UK and south of scotland, we had a natural english speaking waiter serving us on only one occasion. Even the guy giving the tour on the hop on bus had an accent as did the driver and both where barely comprehensible. I walked into 3 pubs owned by non english speakers in downtown London.

I saw a lot of of eastern europeans sleeping rough in the streets around London, I'd estimate about 300 where camped down around leicester square after 8pm when we where there.

Time will tell if the British get what they want.

I know Iceland is happy :)

[multiweb]

:lol:

[graham.hobart]

:lol::rofl: