New eye pieces or new scope

[Ghen]

I've got an 8" F6 GSO dob, that has been driven round the sky quite actively for the last couple of years, with the 2" superview 30 and more standard plossel 9mm eyepieces that came with it.

My preferred viewing is generally seeking out small grey fuzzies, galaxies and nebulas. The scope lives just inside the door of a particularly badly insulated shed, so have little issue with cooling the scope at the beginning of the night, and a very short distance to move it.

I'm out in the back blocks of Auckland, so while there is skyglow in the east, the zenith and to the west is pretty good.

I've got upgrade-it is now, and was looking at a few new goodies, like a 2" barlow for the large superview eyepiece, a better quality shorter eyepiece in the 9-6mm range, and possibly a nebula filter to help with the contrast.

Adding it all up though, if I sell the scope, and don't buy any goodies, I can pretty much fund the F5 12" scope.

Aperture is king? or is the 12" dob going to be too much of a bear to move around? I can't justify the price hike to a truss scope though unfortunately.

Thanks

[tempestwizz]

I recommend more aperture. Even with the best quality eyepieces, you can't see stuff if you can't get it bright enough to you eye. Filters, while enhancing contrast for better visibility only reduce the overall throughput of light.
From 8 to 12 inches you more than double your light gathering power.
My 12.5" dob is significantly brighter than my 10". My 18" is much much brighter than the 12.5"

As you have noted however, mobility becomes an issue as size increases. Only you can determine if you can handle a larger sized package.

(I now have aperture, I just need clear skies to view through!)

Brian

[Atmos]

Portability can be dependent upon whether you go GoTo or not. My current Orion XT12G feels about as portable as my old 16" manual Meade Lightbridge. The base on the 12" GoTo is less portable (weight and comfort to carry) than the 16" manual but the telescope of the 12" is lighter than the 16" but not much less awkward to carry.

That has been my experience anyway.

[sil]

Maybe if you can borrow a recent eyepiece from a local club night maybe to try and see for yourself. The included eyepieces are typically the weak part of a scope package and an eyepiece upgrade should sharpen up things but may not help much with faint fuzzies. Could you save maybe to get more aperture that suits your needs physically and then upgrade eyepieces? if you rush an aperture upgrade because of money now it may be a bit more of a nuisance handful than you expect. Or is your budget a total "I don't want to spend more than X ever on a scope" value. Of course good eyepieces travel with you to better scopes too, the dilemma of the astronomer, you need both! :)

[geolindon]

G day Ed.,
my experience is that aperture is king, but test driving both eps and 'scopes should be the best way to decide what suits you. in case you can't do that simulated views at various apertures at Obsession http://www.obsessiontelescopes.com/index.php and some beaut eye candy that will only exacerbate your upgradeitis :D

there are many excellent ideas in the forums here and elsewhere for inexpensive diy wheels to move a bigger 'scope very easily, especially for the short distance you have, and in case you have a step - ? diy ramp.

i have an 8" and a 16" and the 16 on removable pneumatic wheels get used ALL the time (its that convenient) and i have now loaned the 8 out.

regards, L

[astro_nutt]

Hi Ghen.
I had the opportunity to purchase a quality EP a while ago and have not regretted it. Going from a 20mm Plossl to a 19mm Panoptic is very noticeable. The image details are sharper and fainter objects have a bit more detail. An investment in quality EP's now will still compliment your future scope purchase.
Cheers!

[Ghen]

Thanks all for sharing opinions and experiences.

I'm leaning towards the bigger scope I think, the GSO superview eyepieces seem to be a good starting point, my 30mm is definitely clearer than the 9mm plossel.
Hopefully I'll get the chance to have both scopes side by side for a comparison

[ZeroID]

Hi Ed,
I'm a Jafa too so am well aware of Auckland's LP. I image from about Zenith to South and West from Mt Albert. I don't do much visual but I have the 15mm and 20 mm Superview EP's. Bang for buck they are excellent value and certainly an improvement over most plossls.

That being said aperture still is the best solution for improving resolution and faint fuzzies. If you could combine the two, the Superview(s) and the 12" you would see a big improvement.
ASTRONZ has the 15mm in stock but no 20mm. A decent 2 x Barlow would work well.
I also use a 2" 30mm for lovely in depth wide field viewing, quite immersive.

[AEAJR]

The question I would ask is why are you upgrading?

Is it that you have run out of things you can see with the 8"? (unlikely)

Is it that you just want a bigger scope? (we all get that fever)

Eyepieces can make a huge difference in how things look and your ability to get the right magnification to get the most out of things. You only have the two original eyepieces and that is what you have used for years.

Having only a 30 mm and a 9 mm is just too limiting for that scope. Eyepieces don't go bad and you can keep them when you sell the scope. So anything you add will transfer to a new scope later. My leaning would be to add eyepieces and or the Barlow as you suggested. I would not replace current eyepieces, I would fill in to extend what your current scope can do. You have a 30 and a 9. So something in the 15-20mm range or a zoom in the 7-21 or 8-24 range.

Many people feel 2" barlows are not a worthwhile tool. They are large and heavy and people say that 2" eyepieces are only for low power wide views. I say, why not get double use out of them. :)

I like my 2X 2" GSO barlow. I have two 2" eyepieces and I sometimes barlow them to take advantage of their wide view. My 38 and 25 mm 2" eyepieces also give me 19 mm and 12.5 mm so I don't have 1.25" fixed FL eyepieces in that range on this scope. It is heavy so it may throw of your scope balance a bit but just adding a bit of counter weight to the bottom of the scope addresses that if you need it. I have not found the need.
http://agenaastro.com/gso-2-2x-ed-barlow-lens.html

My most used eyepiece is an 8-24 Zoom. This is usually the first eyepiece to go into the scope.
http://agenaastro.com/celestron-8-24mm-zoom-eyepiece.html

Or you can add somethign in the midrange in a fixed FL eyepiece. Maybe in the 14 to 20 mm range. If you add the barlow be sure to take that into account when you pick. Your 30 becomes 15. So maybe a 12.
http://agenaastro.com/eyepieces/1-25-eyepieces/shopby/agena_astroproducts.html?price=-100

A wider view eyepiece for those large items or as a next step from your finder scope. I use mine for both. I have the Agenda Astro 38 mm 70 degree. And I barlow it to 19 mm.
http://agenaastro.com/agena-38mm-super-wide-angle-swa-eyepiece.html


A barlow would take your 9 to 4.5 mm so you go up in mag at that end. It all depends on you, your budget and your goals. But with only 2 eyepieces your current scope has a lot more room to grow.


Portability

A 12" will pull in 2.25 times more light. Nothing to sneeze at. Are you suffering from lack of light gathering? Certainly 12" is better than 8 from that point of view.


Is a 12" too inconvenient to move about? Only you can judge that. When I bought my 8" I was also considering a 10" which was 15 pounds heavier. I could have managed it but felt the lighter, more portable scope would get more use because it was easier to handle. I am happy with my decision.

One way to address portability is a cart. My scope lives in the garage on a cart. As I am moving it down the driveway and along the sidewalk this one works well for me. If I was going over rough ground, perhaps a hand cart with an extended platform attached. Easy to slip the scope off the cart and back on when done.

[Ghen]

I've got an option on an older GSO 12" dob, but its from before they upgraded the altitude bearings and only has the single speed focuser, so I'm guessing maybe 10 years old? Can anyone shed any light on the quality of the GSO scopes of this era?

[glend]

I had a 12" GSO dob for a couple of years. Things to watch out for, at that age, is the delamination of the chipboard base due to moisture getting inside. How has the scope been stored? Was it put away wet? etc. The focuser can easily be upgraded so that's not really a concern. You need to assess the primary and secondary before you buy it, as at ten years it maybe time to recoat the primary. I should also point out that GSO has improved their mirror production technology over that period and a 12" ten year old mirror from them will not be as good optically as a new 12" mirror. If you really want that scope it would be better to buy a new one, they are not expensive, and you won't have to worry about the issues raised.

[brian nordstrom]

:D GSO 12 inch Dob and GSO 30mm superview :eyepop: Heaven for a very small investment ;) takes thousands of more $'s to top the views this combo will throw up :hi:.

:welcome: and enjoy .

Brian.

[Ghen]

Picking up the new scope tonight, apologies to all in Auckland for the upcoming rubbish weather

[AEAJR]

So, how are thing working out with your new 12" scope? did it come with some new eyepieces?

[Ghen]

Unsurprisingly its been cloudy since I git the scope

[Ghen]

Finally managed to get some eyepiece time before the clouds rolled in. As I've had the 8" gso dob for a while this acts as a kind of base point for the experience with the 12.

Out the box the fit and finish of all the parts was excellent, no issues in assembly at all. Came with the same 30mm super view and 9mm plossel as the outgoing scope.

As for handling, I'm lucky I can store the scope in a big garage. The OTA sits horizontally on its polystyrene packing pieces, with the base next to it. Both are pretty easy to carry individually. If I had to move them together I would be looking for a sack Truck or something similar.
For comparison I used to move the 8 around with the OTA on the base, if you are comfortable with that moving the individual parts of the 12 is no issue.

Coming from the 8, never really found cool down much of an issue as the scope being in the garage was usually pretty close to ambient. The 12 really needs some time to settle, after 15 mins or so it really cleared up. Something to bear in mind if you store the scope indoors.

Reasonably clear night, could just about see the casinni division on saturn with the 9mm eyepiece, but not very dark with a fair bit of sky glow off of the passing clouds. Struggled to see much nebulosity around lagoon and triffid nebulas.

What was noticeable though was how much brighter the stars were than what I was used to. Best viewing of the evening were globular clusters, omega centuri is a lot bigger than I ever remember it, as is TUC47. Swung over to M4 in scorpious which was always a grey smudge in the 8, now there is much more in the way of structure and defined stars.

And then the clouds came back in. Still a good start, and hopefully there will be some nice cold clear winters nights along shortly.

Ths scope is a lot tougher on the gso super view 30mm eyepiece. In the F6 8" it was a great eyepiece, now the distortion at the edges is a lot more noticeable. However the 9mm plossel is fine, in fact it's a lot more useable than in the 8 with the extra aperture.

GSO have also stopped putting the safety undercut on eyepieces. Not a major issue, but something to note.

Overall its been a good step up, dso hunting has just got a lot easier. The 12" is a beast though and I wouldn't recommend to beginners or anyone who has to carry it any distance. It is a lot nicer on the back not having to bend as far.:thumbsup:

Clear skies:D:D