Ballarat area - how good it is for observatory?

[bojan]

Well, as our "dream" property in Seymour turned into a nightmare (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showpost.php?p=1107499&postcount=28)... last month we sold it and closed this particular chapter of our lives.

Now we started to look into Ballarat and surrounding areas to buy a residence.. The town itself is of right size, and has well enough support for a pair of +65yo pensioners (gas, water... doctors, hospitals, graveyards....)

Does anybody have direct experience with the area ( some time ago I had some replies from Leon about Ballarat in general, but maybe the situation changed in the last 6 years)?
Are there any suitable (elevated) suburbs for building backyard observatory?
Are there any areas to avoid (floods, LP etc.)?

[dannat]

there is a fair bit more light pollution than somewhere like seymour? do you want to live in town or in an outlying suburb?
buninyong is a bit sth with a decent bit of elevation, not sure there's much for sale though

[bojan]

Thanks for the tip, Daniel..
Nothing in my price range at the moment in Buninyon.

[Atmos]

Having talked to someone from BOM about a year ago, you should get more clear skies around Seymore than Ballarat due to being on the northern side of the Great Dividing Range.

Theoretically, Ballarat should get better clear skies due to a much higher elevation but there will be less of them. This is all theory however and as we know with weather... It doesn't follow theory ;)

[bojan]

Yes, I know Seymour is better, I had couple of photo sessions from (then) our property couple of years ago...
But unfortunalelly the whole thing unfolded the bad way it did.
I am still keeping an eye on Seymour, Broadford etc. but most likely the equivalent site will not happen again - it was ideal before this guy put up that monstrous shed next to our fence.

However.. Ballarat, with its 100k inhabitants simply must be way better than Melbourne in terms of LP, so...

[pfitzgerald]

Hi Bojan

Might I suggest coming along to the next Snake Valley Astro camp? It's about 20 minutes out of Ballarat and, weather permitting, you'd be able to gauge the quality of the skies. During the day you could drive around the area looking at land/homes.

Paul

[leon]

I agree with Paul, Snake Valley area is as black as ink on a good clear night, the stars shine like diamonds
The night skies are similar to Ilford near Mudgee, where the Milky Way casts a shadow

Leon

[JohnG]

I made the comment at the last Snake Valley Camp that I thought the light dome had got quite larger over the last couple of years and that it now had a considerable blue component from the newer estates that had been built, someone can correct me but it looked a lot like LED street lighting to me.. :shrug:

Cheers

[Tropo-Bob]

I am pondering spending a few months (Feb to April 2018) in either Ballarat or Bendigo after I retire. From an Astronomy point of view, during those months, which City has access to better skies, and facilities such as clubs and star parties?

[leon]

You are right John, that direction to which you refer is expanding like there is no tomorrow, the houses that are being built in those new estates is just out of control. :sadeyes:

And as you mentioned the lighting is very different than some years ago, and is probably LED.

At least they got some things right and are pointing the light source toward the ground. :thumbsup:

Leon :thumbsup:

[bojan]

I would like to do the same, only earlier (since my retirement may happen any moment from now on because I am almost 66).
Lets compare notes :)

Actually, what I would like to find out from locals, which parts of Ballarat (I am focusing there at the moment) is most suitable for a 66-yo couple? We need central gas heating, 3 BR, garage, workshop and enough space in backyard to build the observatory...
North or south?
I am looking at Wendouree at the moment, also Cresswick. Dalesford is good from LP point of view but simply too expensive.

[AussieTrooper]

LP will be a big problem in Ballarat. It is just as bad as the outer suburbs of Melbourne, and is within Melbourne's 'light bubble' to begin with, before you add local LP.
It would probably be worth going a little further out.
Even the Seymour area is LP affected. 20 minutes out of town and you still only get down to visual magnitude 5.5 on a good night. Sounds not too bad at first, but I can get to 4.2 on a good night in the inner suburbs of Melbourne.

[bojan]

Will try.. Sept '16, right?
Yes, LP is a problem, but so is life in (too small) place for us pensioners.. So I have to compromise.
Financial side of this exercise is also a big factor in the equation - so it has to be smaller (and cheaper than Melbourne.. which is not hard to find) town, but not too small as the need for things we never even concidered couple of years ago (like access to medical help) now are suddenly very important.

[pfitzgerald]

Hi Bojan

It's the 29/9-3/10

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=145840

16/9 I'll be on Physics Camp in Benalla with my Yr 11 Physics students.

Paul

Other places I've thought of include Violet Town (Benalla), Mansfield (but is more expensive), Yarck (Mansfield) but probably too small.

[bojan]

I used to have relatives in Benalla... and it was on my radar (still is)
Thanks for reminder :-)

[xelasnave]

Hi Bojan
Good luck with your move.
Things I rate as important that once I would not have considered I share with you.
Dont let pride dismiss my suggestions the future is different to what you imagine.
I list things to consider which are more important than the area you select.
In the future the following will be important.

Single level with no stairs. Even one step may need a ramp.

Distance from garage to kitchen should be minimal as carrying shopping will become a major task.

Minimal maintenance as what you once could do in the future will require employing someone. I know this is unimaginable but trust me you need to prepare under this assumption.
Cleaning gutters becomes impossible so avoid trees close by.
Try to imagine a world where what you once could do now requires paid help.
My legs prevent carrying the shopping from the car in one trip for example. It is a major effort... Who would have thought?
I see my father unable to do the simplest of tasks which I would not have noticed except my legs take me to his state in many ways such that I feel qualified to point out these simple matters.
I know you are a very capable man used to doing "stuff" so you may have trouble imagining the picture that I paint.
Also make sure the new house requires no work. Work means getting and paying for help.
Once I could fix the plumbing the electrics trim the trees now one has to call in someone.

Be happy with small dont buy bedrooms for house guests.

A big kitcken is no longer neat because you have to walk further.

I know you are not past it but please try to comprehend the message I am giving you.
Alex

[barx1963]

Hi all
Bonanza and Bob, if you are interested in the SV camp, just let me know. I am out of contact for a few days as I will be sailing in the Med until the middle of June. Will be back in Aus start of July if you have any questions about the camp.
Would love to see you there!

Malcolm

[bojan]

Alex,
I really appreciate what you wrote, and trust me, I am seriously considering the (almost) worst case scenario you described (and when I forget about it for the moment, SWMBO remids me).
This was also one of the reasons we sold our property in Seymour - the access to it was very steep - OK for younger people but not for us, especially in the future. 10-20 years ago I would simply build the observatory on the first or second floor - but the present (and anticipated future) reality told me this would not be a really good idea.
So - this is why I am eying Ballarat - it is big enough (to be considered civilization) and close enough to Mt Waverly (so the move to there will not be too difficult). And the dark site i not too far away.

[dannat]

bendigo has much clearer winter skies than Ballarat, like seymour being over the range makes a big diff. Daylesford is a soupy mess [im not far from them] plus the town is just weird & chock full of rich melburnians on w/ends, driving SUV's & european cars
castlemaine is another option, over the range but on train line, small city or big town, less LP than either bend/ball. close enough to bendigo for hlth care options

[Nikolas]

Friends of ours live in an estate at Campbells Creek just 5 minutes out of Castlemaine and the night skies are awesome.

[Nab]

Hi Bojan,

Most of the growth in Ballarat is planned on the north/north west side of town. There are considerable urban restriction on subdivision and lot size to the south and south west.

So, keep this in mind about where the light pollution is likely to grow in coming years. Have a look at this if you haven't already for an idea. http://www.ballarat.vic.gov.au/pbs/city-strategy/ballarat-strategy.aspx

Cheers.

Darren.

[bojan]

Hi Darren,
Thank you for the link, it's very useful and I will certainly have a good look at it...
It seems that Cresswick might be the right choice re LP in long term.. however I am not sure I will live that long :P

[AussieTrooper]

Just incase it hasn't already been posted 100 times, here's a good link to show you the light pollution in any given area.

http://darksitefinder.com/maps/world.html

Have you considered Mansfield?
- the area is flat
- 400+m elevation
- north of the divide
- outside of Melbourne's light bubble
- not too far from Melbourne
- small enough to avoid too much LP
- has all the services you need (due to the large number of skiers breaking themselves it has a good hospital)
- minimal future growth
- a short drive gets you to elevated dark sky areas.
- local council prohibits subdivision outside of the town centre.

My folks have a farm near there, and it's where my telescope lives.

[bojan]

Well, it's done (or will be done next year or so, after my retirement).
My future residence (and obsevatory) will be in Laurie Street, Mount Pleasant.
Not ideal in terms of LP (there were many other more important factors to consider), but better than Mt Waverley for sure.
Wish me luck :hi:

[xelasnave]

Congratulations. It must feel good to not worry about that anymore. Good luck.
Alex

[bojan]

Yes it does...
Thank you :)

[Merlin66]

Bojan,
Are you going to visit the area at the end of the month ??
Snake Valley Camp?
Ideal opportunity to check things out.
Hope to see you there (bring your spectroscopes....)
Ken

[Nab]

Welcome to the 'rat Bojan.

Cheers.
Darren.

[Atmos]

Exciting! Should get some really good seein' at times from that altitude :)

[bojan]

Thank you guys :thanx:
The actual move will wait for a while, since I am still working full time (maybe next year).
But I will try to do some shots in December, when I plan to spend couple of weeks in 'rat ...

I am not sure about next Snake Valley Camp though, most likely I will miss it this time.

[bojan]

Hello Ballarat, here we are!
Last night we visited Municipal Observatory in Ballarat (it is 500m from our new place). It was a very pleasant evening, thanks to museum curator (unfortunately I didn't catch her name - but she told me she is a member of this forum) and relatively clear sky (there was a lot of humidity in the air).
Anyway... we are slowly becoming locals in Ballarat (but not in full yet- I am still working in Melbourne, so.. ).

[pfitzgerald]

Great news Bojan - may everything continue to go well for you.

Paul

PS See you at the March SVAC!