Looking to buy a first scope

[joeyjoejoe]

Hello gang,
First time poster here so greetings to all.

Last Saturday I went to the Star Party at the Stockport Observatory and had an interesting time looking through several scopes before the cloud put a stop to things. A few members there recommended dobsonians as a good first scope/best bang for the buck.

I was planning to use my scope for looking at the planets (would like to see polar ice caps on Mars, Red spot on Jupiter, rings on Saturn) and hopefully some deeper space objects as well.

Over the weekend I've been doing plenty of reading and the dobsonian certainly gets a good rap on the various forums. I guess my favourite at the moment is the Orion Skyquest XT12G for $1999 but I've also noticed some unpowered dobs like Saxon 12 for $1500ish and GSO 12 for about $1100ish.

My concern is that if I buy a small scope and don't see quite see the object detail that I'm hoping for, I am likely to get disappointed and sell the scope quickly and upgrade. I was thinking it might be better to get something a little more powerful now so that I can grow into it and keep it for a long time. Also I don't mind lugging a bit of weight manual labour as I'm reasonably young and somewhat technically minded so don't mind a little bit of setup.

With all this in mind, what size dob would you recommend? Is a goto mount important at this stage? I do wonder wether it is annoying having to nudge the scope constantly or does it just become second nature? Is a collapsible/truss dob too much for a beginner?

[SkyWatch]

Hi and welcome to the forum!
You can't go too far wrong with a 12" scope for deep sky and planets: it will serve you for many years; but it is a big telescope, so you want to make sure you are willing to lug it around in the car etc.
Go-to is great if your budget allows, and I see that Bintel have a very good special on the Orion XT12 at the moment...
If you want one that is a bit easier to move around, SkyWatcher make a collapsible go-to: and Shell-lap in Mile End have one in stock at present according to their web-site. Might be worth a look to get an idea of size at least (but their listed price is a lot more than the Bintel special!). Perhaps you could bargain a bit... (Andrews have this too, but at a much better price!)
(They did have a slightly used 16" go-to there for a good price too, but I think that is bit too much for a beginner!)
The other Adelaide shop where you can look at telescopes is Adelaide Optical in Grenfell St. Matthew Lovell at Telescopes and Astronomy is in Adelaide as well, but he operates from home with no show-room. Might be worth a call though.
Whoever you talk to, make sure you get a couple of eyepieces that will give you a range of magnifications so you can do planetary viewing as well as wide-field stuff. Everyone will give you different answers about eyepieces, but I think it is useful to have 3 to start with, looking at around say 50-80x, 100-120x and 200-250x.
Go-to is certainly not essential: I have used a home-made 12" dob for many years, and I am quite happy to push it around. It can be a bit of a pain at high power, but you do get used to it.
If you want to have a chat to a local, I am happy to talk- so just drop me a PM to get in touch.
All the best, and good luck!

- Dean

[dimithri86]

Hi,

I'll give you a summary of my experiences:
I have a 10inch solid tube dob. Which takes up my whole backseat, so its about the largest solid tube I could transport. It was about 150$ secondhand. When I am using a wide eye piece I dont have to nudge it too often (I dont even know because I do it subconsciously now, its easy to get to).

I don't have goto on my dob, I use a app called Skeye, which can be used in indirect mode, where its like a push-to goto, which I find works very well for me. It gets me very close to targets.

20mm GSO superview with camera adaptor 79$ which is what I use for deep sky objects. Great bang for buck.

7mm vixen + barlow for planets (might not not optimal...ill leave it to someone else to give you a good planetary recommendation).

I was intending this to be temporary scope till T outgrew it, but I've used it for about 2 years and still have a lot more to see with it.

[Somnium]

can i just say that i love the Simpsons reference in your name. i have nothing meaningful to contribute, just saw it and literally laughed

[Allan_L]

That is a great price for a great scope.
But check the dimensions will fit into your transporter (if you intend going to dark sites and/or star parties - recommended)

But be warned, it is not going to show you the details contained in those long multi exposure photos we all drool over.

[Rings of Saturn - definitely; GRS on Jupiter - probably, depending on your site and seeing conditions; Ice Caps on Mars - maybe stretching it except for when Mars and Earth are close and seeing conditions allow, maybe.
But you will see many DSO's of various types and varying degrees of details mostly without much colour - there are exceptions]

Collapsible scopes are easy (maybe even easier) to handle and setup.
Truss are a little more work, but not beyond you.

With the general rhetoric of "Aperture Rules" get the biggest scope you can afford AND EASILY SETUP and USE. The reader must calculate this for themselves based on several key determining factors.
Because the BEST scope for you is the Scope that you will use most often.

If in doubt, (or even just to see whats out there) get along to an observing night and talk to various owners about their scopes and their pros and cons.

But returning to my first thoughts: Thats is a great scope for a great price.

Good luck with your decision and new hobby.

[joeyjoejoe]

Thanks a lot for the responses gents. It seems like a 12" solid tube might be the way to go for a first scope due to the simple, no fuss set-up. I drive an SUV with a fairly large storage space so it'll fit in there no problem.

Now as to brands. I must admit the Orion XT12g is my favourite but it's probably just out of my price range at this stage.

Realistically it's most likely going to be from either GSO, Bintel or Saxon. I like the 5 year warranty from Saxon and it uses Pyrex mirrors which I've read cool down faster than the BK7 which is used in GSO. But I can't find many reports on Saxon scopes. Are they an ok scope?

I have read some reports of the GSO mirrors being a bit hit & miss. Does anybody have recent experience with GSO stuff and do Bintel dobs (being rebadged GSO) suffer from the same problems?

p.s. well spotted Somnium ;)

[raymo]

Saxons are made by Synta, and are almost identical to Skywatcher scopes,
which are also made by Synta, so reviews of SW scopes will tell you what you want to know about the equivalent Saxon models.
Incidentally, I would go for the collapsible every time. as Allan said, just as easy to set up, and take up less space, both when
stored, and in the car.
raymo

[barx1963]

Joe
I used a 12" GSO for quite a few years and was very happy with it and I know other who have GSO/Bintel scopes and generally the results are great for the $$$.

There is a lot of stuff about glass BK7 vs Pyrex. The thing with the glass is that cool down time is not the factor that should be worried about. The reason why Pyrex has often been preferred is that it has a lower Thermal Co-efficient of Expansion than other glass without being prohibitively expensive. There is a table on this page about half way down http://www.oldham-optical.co.uk/Glass.htm comparing different glass types and you will see that BK7 and Pyrex are nearly identical in thermal conductivity which is the factor affecting cool down times, the TCE is different which means that wide temperature variations will affect the figure of the mirror. I think that the quality of the figuring is going to have a much greater effect on the seeing quality than a different type of glass in a mass produced dob.

Malcolm

[janoskiss]

For a first scope I'd recommend an 8" f/6 Dob. Yes, you will want more aperture later but the 8" will still be very useful in the long term. It's the largest size that is still easy to move around by yourself in one piece. One does not think twice about getting it out should the occasion call for it, e.g., viewing a moon transit on Jup/Sat, showing off the Moon and planets to friends, guests, neighbours etc.

The 8" Dob really hits a sweet spot for usability and versatility. The 10" is a fair bit more effort and 12" and up is a major deal. The bigger scopes also need longer cool down periods - the 10" Skywatcher/Saxon is an exception if it still comes with a pyrex mirror.

I had a 12" for a while but replaced it with my current main scope, a 10" Saxon Dob (better optics, more portable). I still miss the convenience of my old GSO 8" f/6 (it was stolen years ago) and when finances allow I'll be buying one for everyday observing at home. It's big enough to reveal as much detail on planets and the Moon as the sky allows one to see on most nights.

[joeyjoejoe]

Thanks janoskiss, barx1963 & raymo for the info. I went to Adelaide Optical today and had a look at the Skywatcher 10" collapsible dob on display. When collapsed it would easily fit in the rear space of my car without folding down the rear seats, and I felt comfortable handling that weight. I just wish they had a 12" on display that I could have compared size/weight to... Might have to check out Shell-Lap.

Now I've been thinking about finder scopes: Are the stock finder scopes that come supplied adequate or is it a good idea to upgrade to something like TELRAD or a planet finding app (looks like I can't use Skeye because I have an iPad)?

[raymo]

A Telrad is not an upgrade, it is just a different way to go. The 9x50s that come with SW scopes are fine. You might find you get a crick in the neck
using the straight through finder, and prefer a right angled one, but some people can't handle the different orientation of the sky in a right angled one.
Telrads or other brands of red dot finders are fine, but not a lot of good if the target is beyond naked eye visibility. Ideally, you would have both.
raymo

[barx1963]

David (sorry I may have called you joe in my other post!!)
Telrads and red dot finders (or green laser finders) IMHO are useful for getting you to a starting point for a star hop. For example if looking for NGC4755 (Jewell Box) you would use your red dot finder to get Mimosa in the field of you finder scope then use the finder scope (with help of a star chart) to hop to your target.
Personally I like basic red dot finders as they work fine and weigh almost nothing. A Telrad I found meant I had balance issues. Easily corrected if using a GSO dob as you can move the trunions up and down to adjust balance. The advantage i found with the Telrad is they do not need a dovetail adaptor so you can have one and your finder. Red Dot finders need a dovetail adaptor which is the same as your finder scope.

Malcolm

[croweater]

David when I first got my telrad (about 20yrs ago) I thought it was the best thing and haven't changed my mind. Excellent in conjunction with finderscope . Quite often you won't even need the finderscope as object will be in low power view in main scope. As Malcolm said there are other good ones as well. Highly recommended to get one of some sort. :) Cheers, Richard

[janoskiss]

Telrad is an extremely useful addition to just about any push-to scope. Telrad + right-angle correct-image finder is my fave combo. But you can buy one at any time. There are also less expensive alternatives, "red dot" finders (though Telrad is the nicest 1x finder there is; Rigel quickfinder is pretty good too).

[grimsay]

Hi David and welcome,

I was in the same boat not so long ago... got my 8" dob back in Jan and it's been great. I only recently picked up a Telrad but doing so sooner would've saved a lot of frustration.

I have a Telrad and finder scope now and find both essential. For a beginner the Telrad helps a great deal in minimising error when trying to find objects or targeting the star at the start of a path to an object.

Definitely recommended. Good luck,
Iain

[gaseous]

Hi David,

I've been in your situation before. Maybe it's just me, but constantly nudging my first 8" solid tube dob to keep objects in the field of view grew very tiresome in a big hurry (like, 5 minutes into its first night out I was turning the air blue with industrial-strength obscenities trying to track objects in a non-goto scope). Particularly painful when trying to entertain friends and family, especially at higher magnifications. Obviously budget plays a big role in the choice of a first scope, and much wiser heads than mine might argue for increased aperture over goto functionality, but I've found I get a lot more use and enjoyment out of my scope with the goto addition. As others have said, $1999 for a 12" goto dob is going to be hard to beat - I've done a bit of researching lately and haven't seen one for under $2k anywhere. The straight rod collapsible OTAs take about 13 seconds out of your life to set up, so I wouldn't let that concern you, and they'll save valuable space when lugging them in the car, as well as making the tube easier to pick up. If you get the larger aperture scope, you'll probably want the goto version sooner rather than later, and if you get the smaller aperture with goto, there's a good chance you'll want to get the larger aperture scope pretty soon too. The great thing about this hobby is that there'll always be something new to put on your telescope shopping/wish list! Good luck.

[joeyjoejoe]

Thanks Patrick for sharing your experience and everyone else for the info on finder scopes.

Boy, I did not realise that buying a first telescope would be so complex! It feels like my head is about to explode from all the various options. But at least I have it narrowed down to a dobsonian. Now I just need to figure out what size dob, collapsible or solid tube and go-to or manual.

LoL at the blue language :lol: - I actually can see myself doing much the same thing, so I guess go-to is a must for me. Go-to or manual question solved.

From what I have read these are the remaining contenders that meet my criteria:
10" Orion Skyquest $1649 vs 10" Skywatcher Black Diamond $2099
12" Orion Skyquest $1999 vs 12" Skywatcher Black Diamond $2889.

Well $2889 is more than I wanted to spend. I was budgeting for about $2000 or just slightly over, so that eliminates the 12" Skywatcher. That takes care of the cost question.

The only thing left is what size? Which is more important:
having a 2" bigger aperture but taking more room in the car and being more cumbersome to move(12" Orion Skyquest) or
losing 2" of aperture but gaining the convenience of easier storage/handling (10" Skywatcher Black Diamond or 10" Orion Skyquest). And out of those two is the collapsible feature really with an extra $450? Or would I be better of using that money towards eyepieces and other accessories?

[janoskiss]

It's not that complex. :) Just buy something capable and easy to use that won't break the bank. No matter what you get, your first scope is very unlikely to be your last unless it turns you off the hobby altogether (which can happen if you buy something too cumbersome to set up, use, and/or transport).

I don't mean to sound like a broken record but a scope that's easy to move about will get used a lot more often. I don't just mean transportation but ease of handling in the field: dodging trees, street lights etc. An 8" push-to Dob will set you back only small change compared to the goto scopes you mention and it's a capable enough instrument to knock the socks off anyone new to visual astronomy.

But if you have your heart set on a bigger goto dob the Orion 12" XTg for $1999 would be a great deal. Where did you get that price?? For the SW's Astro Pete has the best prices afaik (a lot less expensive than what you've been quoted), but courier from Brisbane will add to the cost. Haggle with your local dealer. ;)

[joeyjoejoe]

Thanks Steve. The price for the Orions were from Bintel. The Skywatcher prices I got from OzScopes. Although after reading your post I looked at AstroPetes and they were indeed much cheaper at $1745 for the 10" and $2295 for the 12". Then I looked at Andrews Communications - $1799 for 10" and $2299 for 12". Think I'll forget about OzScopes...

Unfortunately I can't haggle with my local dealer (Adelaide Optical) because when I talked to them on Saturday, they seemed to think the 10" SW go-to is not available. Perhaps I'll try Telescopes & Astronomy which StarWatch suggested earlier.

[madwayne]

Hi David

Good choice on the 12" goto, I have one and it is great. The one thing to consider is its physical size if you are going down the solid tube path. It is a big telescope and not that easy to manoeuvre if you are on the short side. I'm 195cm and can lift my ota by having a hand in the bottom and the one in the top, OTA separate from the base of course. You would need a trolley of some sort to move them as a complete unit unless you are built like a 30 year old Arnie :).

Wayne

[janoskiss]

Ozscopes would not be my first choice either. Re the XTg I thought it was the truss version not solid tube. FYI:

It takes a bit of know-how and experience to get a big fast Dob performing at its best. If you cannot find a local dealer with good after-sales support then make friends with a local amateur astro club/society. (Actually, do the latter in any case.)

If you get a big fat package from interstate, your new scope will most likely need collimating. It will also need collimating regularly in the future for good performance. This is easy to do but stumps many beginners --- sometimes to the point of giving up on Newtonians/Dobs altogether: an OTT reaction but it does happen. Don't let it happen to you. ;)

PS. Yes to Telescopes & Astronomy. Matt Lovell is great to deal with. IME he has good honest advice and excellent prices. And if he can't offer a good deal on something he's upfront about that too. But his website is a bit of a nightmare to navigate (and seems to be down atm); it's best to email him: telescopes at adam.
Com dott au.

[gaseous]

Price-wise, Ozscopes wouldn't be my first, second, third or fourth choice. Gerry Gibbs Camera House has a 10" goto Skywatcher for $1499, and last time I checked, Andrews had the 12" goto Skywatcher for $2199. Not sure what sort of freightage $$$ you'd be looking at to get them delivered though. Somebody else also mentioned Astro Pete's - he's about 15 minutes from me and his prices (along with Andrews) are some of the lowest you'll find. Great service too, in my experience.

[Boothie]

Have recently bought some binoculars from these guys, which turned out to be out of stack and are on back order.

The prices are competitive on Skywatcher gear

https://www.camera-warehouse.com.au/skywatcher_telescopes

[janoskiss]

@Boothie (Sean) Reading come of their product descriptions does not instil a lot of confidence:

:confuse2:

... but I especially like this one:

:rofl:

[Boothie]

I had just been price hunting not really looking at their descriptions, they would have came up on a product search and noticed the price and $15 flat freight.

Wouldn't be surprised if a whole lot of 'cut & paste' site building happened, I have driven past their store front in Tempe so they are mainly aimed at cameras. I might try to swing by their store next time I'm in Sydney.

[ThunderStorm]

Ah right angled finderscope...anyone has suggestion for a tight budget?

[ThunderStorm]

Yes, like photography.

[SkyWatch]

Depends how tight your budget is... Andrews have a GSO 8x50 right angled one for $99, and Bintel have their brand one (also a GSO?) for the same.

My first finder was 1/2 of an old Pentax 7x50 binocular that I got for $5 at a pawn shop. I just removed the screws that held the halves, and made up a bracket from scrap wood. It gave me correct orientation views too-which I find really helpful! Best finder ever, until the scope was stolen! :(

- Dean

[AEAJR]

David,

If I read the discussion correctly it looks like you have not made a purchase yet. So let me toss in a few ideas.

You seem set on a Dobsonian. OK, good choice as long as you have the space and can handle the weight. Remember that the Optical Tube Assembly, OTA, can be removed from the base for transport.

Also be aware that you can put these on carts or wheels so they can be easily moved. Some would require you to lift off the cart and some have legs that you lower to stabalize the scope so you don't have to lift them.

Computer assist.

Your first post was for an Orion XT12G, a solid tube fully automated Goto scope.

Later posts seem to have you looking at fully manual scopes. There is a midpoint from Orion call the Intelliscope. I have the 8" XT8i Intelliscope. I don't see it mentioned so I thought I would share my experience. I really like it.

I am in the USA so the links I provide are to the Orion site in US dollars. Naturally you will want to talk to a local supplier.

XT12i - Solid tube 12" Intelliscope.
http://www.telescope.com/catalog/search.cmd?form_state=searchForm&siteCode=US&keyword=XT12i

XXL12i - Truss 12" Intelliscope
http://www.telescope.com/Orion-SkyQuest-XX12i-IntelliScope-Truss-Dobsonian-Telescope/p/102017.uts?keyword=XXL112i

There are no motors so, unlike a GoTo scope like the XT12G, this one does not move on its own and it does not track. What it does do is tell you where to point the scope to see the target you input. See the video below.

Using the Intelliscope Computer Object Locator
http://s7d5.scene7.com/s7/uvideo.jsp?asset=Orion/How-To-Use-Orion-IntelliScope-Object-Locator-VID015-1-11i-AVS&config=Orion/Universal_Video1


Depending on how you look at it, it is about 25% lower in cost than the 12G. In addition it has a better finder scope than the 12G.

You can use it manually without the computer assist. I do this about 50% of the time, especially when I am going to familiar targets, visible targets like the Orion Nebula or the Pleiades. Of if I am viewing things that are easy to find like the moon and planets.

When I am working a list of targets I turn on the Intelliscope, do a very quick and easy alignment and then use the computer to guide me to the targets. No planning out star hops and no frustration with my light polluted skies were I can't see the stars to use for the hop.

Half way between a manual dob and a GoTo dob, the Intelliscope is an option to consider.

As I said, I have the XT8i. But I have my eye on the XXL14i or XXL14G as my next upgrades.

My current scope resides in my garage sitting on a cart. I roll it out to my observing site which is the sidewalk in front of my house, then lift it off the cart. The XT8i is about 45 pounds. The XT12i is about 83 pounds so you would either put it on a cart where you don't have to remove it or take the tube off, lift off the base, then put the tube back on. Not hard to do.

Telescope Wheel Systems - With these the scope stays on the cart
http://www.jimsmobile.com/buy_wheeley_bars.htm
https://www.astronomics.com/tripod-wheels-dollies_c220.aspx

Or you could build something like this
http://www.telescope.com/catalog/search.cmd?form_state=searchForm&siteCode=US&keyword=cart
Or this
http://www.thornett.net/Rosliston_Archive_2009-11/html/wheelbarrow_handles.html
or These
https://www.google.com/search?q=dobsonian+wheel+kit&espv=2&biw=1600&bih=775&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiWxLjDrZnNAhUo6YMKHRbiDg MQ7AkIUw&dpr=1





Hope this helps.

[joeyjoejoe]

Hi Ed(AEAJR),
Thanks very much for the suggestions. You are right - I have not bought a scope yet. I really am undecided. I would love to get a 12" dob. Storage at home and transport in the car are not an issue and I think I'll be able to carry it ok once the OTA and base are separated.

Where I am getting stuck is wether to go-to or not go-to. I have visions of me getting annoyed at constantly having to nudge a manual scope all the time. So go-to may well be handy but the extra cost would mean I have to go down in aperture probably to 8" (my budget is around $1200aud). The intelliscope you mentioned sounds interesting but I have not seen them for sale in Australia. As far as I know Bintel is the only Orion retailer here and they only list the go-to Orions. Perhaps I should send them an e-mail to ask about the intelliscope version.

So do I just go manual 12" now and then if I do get annoyed in a few months time, add a go-to kit to it later? Or do I get a smaller aperture now and enjoy the convenience of go-to and then replace the OTA with something bigger later on if I am not wowed by the view? I really have no idea what the image difference is between 8" and 12".

I have even thought about buying a 2nd hand scope but as luck would have it there is nothing suitable in the for sale threads.

p.s. your username sounds a little familiar. Are you on RCGroups at all? I used to be (flew FPV and foamie gliders) but am having an extended break from radio control at the moment.

[Atmos]

I have one of those 12" Orion Goto Dobs, they are very nice and not too bad to move around. I do have the truss and not the solid tube though. I find the base is more cumbersome than the rest of the telescope, not so much because of weight but just awkward to comfortably pick up. The views out of it are definitely worth it however :)

I use mine mostly for public outreach (I don't get up to my dark site often as I'd like for more serious observing) so GoTo is pretty much needed for me so that i am not constantly re-centring. The manual versions can move quite smoothly, my previous 16" Meade Lightbridge (manual) was very easy to move and keep on target but I have not had any experience with the non-goto version.

[AEAJR]

Yes I am very active on RCGroups in the electric section and the sailplane section. Also active on RCU, Wattflyer and others. I wrote an on-line book on electric powered flight that is posted on Wattflyer.com. And have been very active in the Eastern Soaring League. However, with my rising interest in astronomy I have slowed down over there.

That is me narrating the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8iGTPatwMU


Back to astronomy

Are you a hunter or a tourist? ;) Do you want to hunt for things or do you want to see things?


With RC, are you:

a kit builder? (think star hopping and setting circles).
More of an ARF guy (think intelliscope)
Or did you prefer BnF and RTF? ( Mr Goto!)



If you like the idea of the Intelliscope speak to your Orion dealer and ask if he can get them. I really like mine.

The joy of computer assist is that you can find ANYTHING that is within visual grasp of the scope. Star Hopping is great but you need to spend the time preparing, studying so that you know where the guide stars are. Some people find the hunt as much fun as observing the target. I am not one of them.

So, do you like using a map to plan your road trips, watching the odometer and looking for signs, or do you like to put the address in your GPS and go? I used maps for years. I am more of a GPS guy now.

If I try to star hop to something and can't find it, I can turn on the computer and either find it or confirm that my hop was right and it is just not visible from my site based on my sky conditions with this scope. Due to the light pollution in my area I find this very very helpful.

Once I have been to something a couple of times, I leave the computer off. I know I can see it and I know where it is.

Some targets that I want to find are in blank parts of the sky. Using a red dot finer, or a Telrad, there is NOTHING for me to target on. My 9X50 RACI finder gives me more to work with but even then I may not be able to see what I need to see to do the hop. Turn on the Intelliscope and, bang, there it is!

GoTo is even better. My ETX 80 is full Goto. Once the GoTo takes me to the target the scope will track it and that allows me to focus on the object rather than constantly moving the scope.

While serious AP needs a serious mount, Webcam, smart phone and compact digitial cameara AP can all be done quite successfully with a typical Alt/Az GoTo mount. So that is an added benefit of a Goto, tracking for these kinds of AP. I plan to use my ETX 80 for this.


Targets fly through the eyepiece at high mag. With a manual scope you will find that you are spending more and more money on wide view eyepieces so that the target stays in view longer. Even with a 60 degree AFOV eyepiece Mars moves fast at 260X.

With tracking, the target stays within the view of plossls very nicely. And if you are showing the sky to friends you are not constantly repositioning the scope.

There are other benefits to wide angle eyepieces but needing to keep the target in view is not as much of concern with a GoTo. There may be significant savings from GoTo by reducing the need for wide view eyepieces but that is debatable. Wide view are nice for other reasons, you just don't need them as much.

Personal opinion is that I LOVE computer assisted scopes as long as I can also use them manually without computer assist too. About 50% of the time I leave the computer off, but it is always there when I want it.

Your smileage will vary.

So, what should you do? Well that is up to you. The question is where do you invest your $$

12" manual scope - you plan, you hop, you hope and maybe you find. Lots of people prefer this.

10" Intelliscope - Kind of a half way point. Think of this like the GPS in your car. It guides, you drive. On my XT8 the Intelliscope was about a $110 additional cost (US) over a similarly equipped XT8 manual scope.

8" GoTo Scope - Tell the car where you want to go and it takes you there. Sit back and relax with assurance of a successful trip.


If you have a dark sky and feel you will take the time to prepare your star hops then the manual scope is probably the way to go.

If failure to find what you want to see will be more of a frustration than a challenge, then get some kind of computer assist.

Or if time to prepare your viewing sessions and your star hops is limited and not a key focus, get some kind of computer assist.

Under dark skies you can see a LOT with an 8" scope. Under light polluted skies, can you find what you want to see with a manual 12" scope?

Your smileage will vary.

I opted for the computer assist. Future scopes will be computer assisted too.

I use a GPS rather than road maps. And my old typewriter has a thick layer of dust on it.

Believe me they don't point the Keck telescope or Hubble by star hopping.

[AEAJR]

One more thing I would like to share that I have learned over the past year.

Look at people's signature blocks. Those who have been doing this for a while tend to have more than one piece of equipment. I have learned that one scope may not be able to do it all.


Binoculars - This is actually where I started. I now have two pair and I use them constantly. Great for quick looks, as supplements to my finder scope and great for daytime use. 8X40s or 10X50s are usually the best place to start here but they could be almost anything. Even 7X35 binos gather 25 times more light than your eyes and so you will be able to see stars that you can't see now. There is a whole branch of astronomy built around binoculars.


Smaller Grab and go scope - This was my first scope, my ETX 80. Small, light, easy to use, fully Goto and quick to toss in the car. For many people this is their second scope, the one they get after they get the bigger scope. For me it was the first. I continue to use it. In fact I had it out last night. My wife and I are planning a vacation trip by car and this is the one that will come with me. For some people an 8" Dob is their grab and go scope.

Larger Light Bucket - For me this is my XT8i. For others this might be a 12", 14", 16". This was as big as I wanted to go for weight and storage purposes. I can still put it in the car for travel but that is not its primary use. But I do have my eye on an Orion XXL14I or G for someday. :)


Why do I tell you this? Because the scope you buy today could be planned to fit into one of these slots. It is the scope that will tell you if you want to get serious about this or is this a passing fancy.


So, if you buy that 12" scope will that be your home based scope with occasional travel? Or will it be too big and unwieldy meaning it will be left in the corner rather than go through the hassle of setting it up? Or do you want to look at a 4-6" dob or Mak or SCT because it will be quick and easy to store, move and set-up. Grab the scope and mount in one hand, your accessory bag in the other and start observing. This could be your grab and go later when you are ready for that bigger 12 to 16" scope.


I was at a star party a few months back. I was talking to a guy who had an 11" Celestron SCT. Loves it but rarely uses it because he finds it too much to handle most of the time. This was his first scope. He then bought a 6" scope which he uses 90% of the time. The big scope only comes out on special occasions.


Binoculars - Do you have some now? Have you turned them skyward? What do they show you and how do you use them as part of your overall plan?

These can be a great way to start learning to star hop. They will show something similar to a 9X50 finder scope. Can you find the guide stars with your naked eye? Can you find them in your boinos? That will help you choose what kind of finder scope you want.

Can you hop to the target? If not, will you be able to do it with a 12" manual Dob with a red dot finder? Will you need an 8-9X by 50 magnified finder? Or will you want computer assist?


Just some things to think about. If you stay in the hobby, you will add to your kit so plan for that. Convenience is important to me so I started with the smaller scope and limited the size of my larger scope so that it would still be convenient. Some would say I made mistakes, but it is working well for me.

[joeyjoejoe]

Thanks again for the wealth of information Ed. Last night was the first clear sky we've had in about 2 or 3 weeks. There were a surprising amount of stars visible so I'll probably do most of my observing from home although my dark site will the Stockport Observatory which is only about a 50 minute drive away.

When I started flying FPV I never used an RTH module or OSD and just enjoyed bare bones flying, but when I fitted an FY-Dos I never looked back. It increased my enjoyment of FPV 10 fold. So I have a feeling go-to will be much the same.

Go-to dob it is. That means for budget reasons I'll have to choose an 8". That's ok, it should be a good grab & go scope like you mentioned. So that leaves me with Orion or Skywatcher. I like the look of the Orion but their warranty is only 1 year as opposed to 5 years with SW. How reliable are the electronics in a dob? Is a 1 year warranty enough?

[AEAJR]

I have an Orion Intelliscope. I have had it a year but I purchased it used and the guy who had it before had it about 5 years. Works fine.

But if the price is comparable I would go for the longer warranty. Both are reputable brands.

Make sure you consider what is in the package:

One speed focuser vs. 2 - One if fine but 2 is better
Red dot finder or RACI finder - the 9X50 RACI finder on my Orion is outstanding

What eyepieces are included. Plossls are better than Kellners and 2" cost more than 1.25" eyepieces.

Included collimation tools. Collimation cap works fine but a Laser would be more convenient.

Post a link to what you are considering and we can help you evaluate the packages.

[raymo]

Just in case you might want to hook up a DSLR and take some pics at some
time in the future, make sure that what you buy allows that to be done; all
Skywatcher dobs[Newts] do, but most others don't.
raymo

[Atmos]

Electronics wise, I believe they are identical. I have an Orion GoTo that uses the Synscan hand controller, plugs directly into my Sky Watcher EQ6 and works a treat :)

[joeyjoejoe]

Thanks Atmos & raymo for the input. I am indeed interested in hooking up a DSLR (Cannon 600D) for some basic moon pics etc. I guess that plus the 5 year warranty puts SkyWatcher ahead of Orion.

For AEAJR here are the specs: http://www.skywatcheraustralia.com.au/product/bk-dob-8-synscan-d-203mm-f-1200mm/

[Atmos]

I haven't actually tried putting a DSLR onto mine yet but as raymo has mentioned, the Sky Watcher dob are optimised for being able to do DSLR photography.