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Rodstar
31-10-2006, 10:29 PM
How can we maximise what we can perceive with our eyes? :eyepop:

I found the following web resources of interest. Hope you like them too.

1. At www.fortunecity.com/roswell/borley/49/visual.htm there is an excellent summary, drawing on various articles from astronomy journals from the mid 1980s to mid 1990s, regarding how to maximise what your eyes are capable of seeing. Amongst other things, the point is made that, contrary to astronomical folklore, it is often beneficial to increase magnification to better detect faint deep sky objects because the background will be darker, meaning the fainter object will still contrast against the background, while, at the same time, the human eye is more capable of seeing a larger faint object.

2. Mel Bartels provides a good summary of the subject, "Visual Astronomy: An investigation into the visual optimum detection magnification", at his website www.bbastrodesigns.com/visual.html. Of particular interest to me is Mel's comment, after describing how the cones and rods in the retina operate, that the best spot on the retina to use averted vision is found by looking at a point 15 degreees away from the object, slightly above it and with the object aimed at your nose. He also discussed the fact that the best magnification, in any situation, is that which gives the best eye detection contract value for a given apparent object size and sky background. Mel also provides a table (author undisclosed) which indicates that our eyes are capable of detecting much fainter magnitude objects in the right circumstances with sufficient mental discipline. For example, the table indicates that there is a 5% probability of detection of a magnitude 17.4 star with a 10 inch telescope. I understand from this it is suggested that if I observe carefully for 60 seconds, I might, on the basis of probabilities, see the 17.4 magnitude star for 3 seconds. Sounds a bit far fetched to me.....;)

3. Of course one of the gurus of the science of visual observing is Roger N Clark. On his site www.clarkvision.com/visastro/omva1/index.html, Clark summarises data collected from a World War 2 study of soldiers to help them see better at night to assist in an understanding of the elements of better visual detection. Interestingly, he notes that when an object is magnified in a telescope, the contrast between object and background does not change since both are magnified equally. However, his studies reveal that at a certain point there is a deterioration in visual detection of faint objects if magnifying any further. The best observing strategy, says Clark, is to magnify deep sky objects , or the details within them which interest you, to about 100 arc-minutes in size. He gives the example that if you are trying to detect a dark nebula in a spiral galaxy are, magnify that dark nebula so that appears about a degree across or more. He recommends a magnification sequence increasing by a factor of 1.5x with the following being a good magnification sequence: 35x, 50x, 80x, 80x, 120x, 180x, 270x 400x.

Happy visual observing! ;)

ving
01-11-2006, 07:18 AM
thanks rod, interestng stuff. I have often seen stars that i had previously thought beyond the capabilities of both my eyes and my telescope (not mag 17 but still talking somewhere around 14 in my 8") so you just cant tell if something is going to be visible till you try.

i find swaping fron my 30mm to my 15mm will bring more contrast to objects as stated in the first example. but i wouldnt go below in my telescope. you could (i uderstand) use a 7mm in a 12" dob to get good detail!

CoombellKid
02-11-2006, 05:34 AM
I think it is one of a more important things to learn about for us amateur
astronomers is how the eye functions, something that is often overlooked
for us star gazing types. Not sure if this would interest you.

A few months back I started taken a supplement called Bilberry pills.
It helps improve night vision and maintains eye health. To tell you the
truth after a few weeks I have noticed an improvement in my night time
vision, even notice my daytime long distance vision has improved too.
It probably took about 2-3 weeks to start noticing suttle things.

It was discovered during WWII when british pilots flying sorties over
Germany they would have sandwiches with Bilberry Jam. Apparently
They would tell of having improved night vision. Some years later
they tested the bilberrys and found it to be true.

I'm currently taking Blackmores Bilberry 2500, costs 14.95 for 40 tablets
I've seen other brands up near the $30 for 40 tablets.

regards,CS sunny days

Rob

OneOfOne
02-11-2006, 08:06 AM
I tried Bilberry early this year too. I am not sure about daytime improvement, I only wear glasses when I want to see what I am doing anyway!:lol:

It was hard to say if my night vision improved because the darkness in my backyard varies so much from night to night. Some nights Crux has 5 stars while others it only has 4 and some nights it may only have 3. This is the easiest way I judge how dark the sky is on a "clear night". After taking them for about 2 months I found that when driving at night the headlights from oncoming traffic was definitely causing severe dazzleing. When the bottle ran out, I never got around to getting more. The increased sensitivity to headlights probably subsided over a period of 2 to 4 weeks. I don't know if this sensitivity would equate to better night vision though....

Have you felt any similar effects yet?

Lee
02-11-2006, 06:35 PM
I'm contemplating getting a pair of contacts or viewing specs - my vision is actually about 6/5 in both, but my partner (quite blind without glasses) has the vision of an eagle with her lenses on..... might see if a clever optometrist can hypertune my eyes up to 6/4.5 or so.....

CoombellKid
03-11-2006, 07:48 AM
Hey OneOfOne

I live in a pretty dark site where we aren't really effected by light pollution
in a big way. We do have a light dome to the NNE which is mostly obscured
by trees. Apart from the usual weather conditions it is pretty stable dark
site. I do alot of naked eye observing and I feel I'm seeing more stars than I
used to. Jury is still out on telescopic objects, we've had some pretty lousy
observing weather here for months. I also noticed the trees a few kms away
appear much clearer I can make out the larger branches and such and notice
their movement in the wind. I also find when drving at night headlights appear
more dazzling but I can live with that, I try to not look into them.

But all in a I think they have worked, and will continue to use them.

regards,CS sunny days

Rob

Don Pensack
08-11-2006, 10:02 AM
Bradley Schaefer (now with LSU) did a lot of pioneering work with the limits of telescopic vision. Calculators based on his work appear at:
http://www.go.ednet.ns.ca/~larry/astro/maglimit.html
and
http://www.ilangainc.com/limitingmagnitude/
and the article is here:
http://web.telia.com/~u41105032/visual/Schaefer.htm

Basically, scopes go a lot deeper than the old books and charts tell us. I was regularly getting to magnitude 15.1 to 15.3 with my 8" (using Roger Clark's test clusters), and even reached 15.6 on an exceptionally dark night. These calculators tell me that that was to be expected, and that the performance I saw was only average.

The calculators allow you to enter in light pollution info and take your experience into account.

As for maximizing the potential of your eye:
--don't smoke
--don't drink for at least 24 hrs before viewing
--allow 45 minutes to dark adapt
--maintain blood sugar levels by eating during the night.
--make sure to get enough (but not too much!) Vitamin A in the diet
--be well-rested (don't exercize on the afternoon before observing)
--stay warm
--never use any color other than red light, and no light at all if you can.
--don't use a laptop computer at the scope
--surround yourself with dark or black surroundings and use a black cloth on the ground if necessary
--if the sky is not exceptionally black, don't look up at the sky. If you have to to find the object, look down for a couple minutes before viewing the details in the object.
--use a black drop cloth over the head to block out peripheral light at the eyepiece (difficult to do without fogging up the eyepiece)
Don

monoxide
08-11-2006, 05:37 PM
we've all heard that carrots help night vision but how true do you think this is?
about a week ago i got a juicer and a 20kg bag of juicing carrots (plus a whole lot of other goodies to throw in) from the local markets (not even thinking about helping night vision at the time) as my last place of employment this was a regular routine (a glass or 2 of carrot juice with whatever other fruit etc you may like)
anyway ive been having a couple glasses every morning for the last week or so and now i cant even step outside without my sunnies on! sure its a positive thing for my nightly activities but during the day when i step outside it takes me a minute to get over the blinding sensation.
sounds similar to OneOfOnes experience.

Tj

janoskiss
08-11-2006, 05:44 PM
I'm not sure if increased daylight sensitivity automatically means better night vision. St John's Wort is available from health food shops as dry herb you can cook up into a tea and it certainly increases light sensitivity (both for eyes and for skin) but I'm not sure about night vision. It never occurred to me to try. (You can also get it pill form but a properly brewed tea will have more of an immediate effect.) There are other herbs and drugs that are known to increase light sensitivity in daylight.

glenc
08-11-2006, 05:55 PM
I thought this was interesting.



ARE TWO EYES BETTER THAN ONE?
Bowen (1985) reports: "When low-contrast targets are viewed, there is a 40% improvement in resolution with binocular as compared to monocular vision. Binocular vision also gives an improvement in contrast sensitivity on the order of 40%. Also, there is a lower light threshold; there is a 25-40% gain in the ability to see faint objects."

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/borley/49/visual.htm

Don Pensack
09-11-2006, 02:03 AM
It's well known that correcting an insufficiency of Vitamin A helps vision, both day and night. Overdosing on Vitamin A can cause problems with the liver, pancreas and kidneys. The key is to be aware of what you eat so that you get a sufficiency. More than that does not help. I doubt that drinking a glass of carrot juice will give you an overdose of the vitamin, so the sensitivity is from something else.
I have light blue eyes and high sensitivity to light--I wear sunglasses when I am outside and the sun is above the horizon, and always have. But the sensitivity of my vision is genetic, not due to large doses of carrot juice.
The only particular problem easily linked to carrot juice, though, is alimentary, not vision-related. It is possible to get too much fiber.:whistle: