PoleMaster - what accuracy are you getting?

[HenryNZ]

I purchased the PoleMaster as my mount is on a wooden pier which shifts from time to time, and I wanted some quick way to (a) check the alignment and (b) correct and shift in PA with time. I have had a chance to try PoleMaster last couple of nights and I found that after using PoleMaster the alignment is actually worse than before it was used. At the end I had to drift align again to bring the PA back to a usable state. So I am a bit disappointed. I think it will still be a good tool for quick alignment for portable set up or as a prelude to drift alignment, but I suspect it won't completely replace drift alignment.

Having said that when I emailed Qiu from QHY about it, he said that people in Northern hemisphere are regularly getting sub-arc min alignment accuracy. He thought it might be that the routine is not well refined yet for Southern hemisphere.

What has been your experience?

[garymck]

I can't quantify my results, but at 2 different sites, and with 2 different scopes, I have obtained the best polar alignments I've ever had...

One scope was a portable, the other an observatory mounted G11. I had previously spent 4 hours drift aligning the G11, Polemaster showed an error - not large but still an error. I corrected this, and have achieved the best guiding I've ever had.

Have turned on refraction correction in the Polemaster software - this may make a difference..

cheers
Gary

[bojan]

It seems that PoleMaster software works only with PoleMaster hardware.. and that hardware is just USB camera with some specific ID that enables PoleMaster software.

Is there equivalent application, that will worlk with any camera?

[HenryNZ]

I have tried to use refraction correction but does not seem to help. May be I should check the installation again. Also when using refraction correction, I presume you just put in the numerical part of latitude (e.g. 37 for 37 South; rather than -37) -- not that it will accept a negative number anyway.

[garymck]

yes just use the number of your latitude, the sign is irrelevant.

cheers
Gary

[JohnH]

I will second that - I used mine last night for the first time, I have never had such stable guiding. I have a portable(ish - its a G11) setup and normally just carry and plonk it on a marked position from which I had drift aligned previously. Polemaster showed me how just how inaccurate this approach was and the coarse error correction was made very quickly. The fine adjustment was easy as well. Very happy. I will use this each session now as it is so fast to do and gives you positive, visual confirmation that you are aligned or, if not, how far off you are, drift takes much longer and requires interpretation, iteration and basically is a pita (but if I had a permanent setup I would still use it). I also have refraction correction turned on.

[Octane]

What adapter do you need for a G-11?

H

[JohnH]

Hi H,

I got mine via Gamma Electronics...just specified it was for use with a G11 and Theo sorted out the ordering. The ccd came through quickly but there was a couple of weeks delay in the delivery of the G11 adapter. I believe the adapters are shipping ok now.

John

[Octane]

Thanks, John.

I was looking at Theo's site but couldn't see the G-11 adapter listed on the PoleMaster pages.

I'll try and offload a few things I'm not using and see if I can't get one of these. I currently use PEMPro and love it, but, this looks to be a far quicker solution!

H

[byronpaul]

I’m a self confessed Polar Alignment nuff nuff. Only after considerable effort with my semi permanent set-up do I get really good polar alignment. My inability to readily achieve polar alignment limits the times I would consider taking my rig to a dark sky site, as I would usually spend far too much time trying to polar align.

Having tried a few previous trick and tools including EQAlign, AlignMaster, Drift Alignment and the PHD2 Alignment tool, my better half presented me (after my suggestion) with a PoleMaster for my recent 50th.

Having only used the device once, I can’t believe how easy it was to achieve the best alignment I have ever achieved, all in under 20 minutes from unboxing, software installation to completion.

I’m actually looking forward to practicing polar alignment on my travel rig, and I’ve just ordered the new adapter from Cyclops Optics to use PoleMaster with a Polarie. I think a very good polar alignment with this device in 5~10 minutes is easily achievable.

I haven’t yet looked at the refraction correction in great detail, but the device is simple to install and use. Once the software is used once, it is also very intuitive and easy to use, and no doubt the software is calibrated to the field of view of the camera.

I'm not sure how to exactly calculate my residual polar alignment error, but whilst guiding with MaxIM DL @ 432mm fl, my 2 second corrections in X and Y are around 0.01 to 0.1 .... whatever that means :P

Overall, one of my best Astro purchases to-date .... and there's been lot of them :thumbsup:

[Octane]

That is very promising, Paul. I'm about to begin work constructing my observatory and this has me excited. :)

How much was the adapter for the Polarie?

H

[Exfso]

OK People, how much are these in AUD? I have a G11...

Edit, just found out $446 from Gama electronics with 1 adapter plus $15 postage.

[Exfso]

Been communicating with Theo, he is really most helpful. A treat to deal with..:thumbsup:

[HenryNZ]

A repost from CN:

I could not seem to get good polar alignment with pole master.

I am using PoleMaster at 36S (New Zealand) in Southern Hemisphere.

I followed the procedure to the letter, and at the end I could see the red and green circle overlap and stay so for a long time.

However, when I used PHD at my target and with DEC guiding turned off, PHD showed clear DEC drift amounting to about 3-5 arc min error.

Since then I have done more tests. I found that after having completed the procedure, an immediate re-test will always show more error. And if I "fix" the error, a further re-test will again show error but in the opposite direction. So the error oscillated between two points.

I also found that rough and fine alignment often do not agree curiously. Say if I have to move sigma octantis (the southern pole star) in the 8 o'clock direction into the green circle on rough align, I often have to move the green circle in the 2 o'clock direction to make it align with the red circle during fine alignment, basically undoing the changes make in the rough alignment step.

I have tried to skip the rough alignment step and just do the fine alignment, but the results are still inconsistent.


I am not sure if I have done something wrong? Have you been getting better results (as verified by DEC drift testing)? If so, are there any tips to achieve that? In particular I like to hear someone from Southern Hemisphere for I suspect it may have something to do with inaccuracy of the Southern Hemisphere "template"...

[garymck]

Hi Henry,

regarding accuracy:

On my observatory mounted G11 using Polemaster I can say that dec drift is almost non existent - can't recall the figures (and can't check because weather is crap), but the dec drift line is flat for at least 3-4 minutes from memory.

However, on my portable scope - a wedge mounted CPC, I have found a bit of variability - this seems not to be related to Polemaster inaccuracy, but rather a bit of sag in the forks causing a bit of error in the alignment process. I have also found that setting up on damp, soft ground can change alignment over a period of a couple of hours as the tripod sinks into the ground a bit !!!

My other portable, an AZEQ6 has only been aligned so far on hard, dry ground, and polar alignment is as good as in the observatory.

So I'd say that alignment is only as good as the mount, and the ground the mount sits on.

I've been very happy - I'm at -38 lat.

PS - have you posted a query on the QHY forum directly?

cheers
Gary

[HenryNZ]

Hi Gary
Do you have the USB port facing left as per instruction or facing right? Do you use refraction correction? What version of the software are you using? Thanks.

[garymck]

Henry,

put cable on the right, use refraction correction, v 1.30 - just saw there is a V1.31 available!

cheers
Gary

[HenryNZ]

Currently I have the USB on the left when facing the camera. I will try it facing right. I hope this will fix the problem. The routine is elegant and I really don't see why the results should oscillate between two locations unless some setup is wrong. I also have my mount on a pier but the pier is only wooden and I want some quick way to check PA after prolonged period of inactivity.

Just to be absolutely sure, you have the USB port on the right when you are facing the camera, contrary to the manual right?

Funny thing is, I actually helped Qiu with the latest update with the English manual but because I could not get good results I have not been able to include some good screenshots for him.

[garymck]

[QU

Just to be absolutely sure, you have the USB port on the right when you are facing the camera, contrary to the manual right?

Funny thing is, I actually helped Qiu with the latest update with the English manual but because I could not get good results I have not been able to include some good screenshots for him.[/QUOTE]

Henry, as you face the mount/polemaster, the usb connector is on the right.... I did this since I figured it would be opposite of northern hemisphere!! Maybe I just fluked it !!
cheers
Gary

[HenryNZ]

Thanks Gary. I tried it again tonight with the USB on the right, and the result is much much much better. Thanks!

[garymck]

Excellent Henry !!!

Now I can be sure I'm doing the right thing as well :)

When you get it working it gets great results. I'll be interested to hear how you go now....

cheers
Gary

[Fernando]

Dear all,

I am taking advantage of the discussion to ask you guys a question: does Polemaster will work for me in my location, 43 W and 20S?

I asked this question to some sellers sites and could not get a kind of final answer.

Thanks in advance, Fernando

[JohnH]

Not sure how accurate the alignment is but my results are much better. Tracking is smooth and I have got to 20min subs with no real field rotation.

[HenryNZ]

Can I have a vote who has the USB on the right and who has it on the left (for Southern Hemisphere) and what accuracy you are getting?

I emailed Qiu from QHY and he still thinks USB left is correct although that's not my experience.

[Exfso]

See what Theo thinks, he is the distributor in Australia for them..I will probably be getting one for my birthday...;)

[barx1963]

Well I have just had a crack at a new Polemaster. What a little ripper of a device!
I had just spent a frustrating 30 minutes drift aligning in PHD2 and it was jumping all over so I said, bugger it time to give it a try.
I was not going to use it tonight as the imaging time was going to be limited so didn't want to waste time learning a new system.
Anyway took about 20 minutes and was knocking out guiding results better than I have ever had!!
I the past I was always finding that my guiding wuld seem to be working ok, and I would move to a new target and it would be all over the shop.
After 1 go with the PoleMaster, problem appears solved.

:lol::lol: Happy Happy:cool::cool:

Malcolm

[barx1963]

I have attached a photo of my latest guiding graph. It has been easily the best guiding in Dec that I have seen. Pointing accuracy is much improved and the whole process only took 20 minutes.

And I know there are other ways to get great alignment, but for system that needs to be set up each night, this is a great result.

Now just have to work out PEC so my RA graph can get impoved.

Malcolm

[Atmos]

Nice and flat line thats for sure :) I am thinking of getting one for my HEQ5 purely for visual and wide field photographic purposes.

[barx1963]

Paul Byron has told me that he has used his on a Polarie with excellent results. I am only using 570 mm focal length, so guiding like this is a bonus. May not be good enough for the long FL systems but if it means I can get up and running quicker it is great!!

Malcolm

[DJT]

Used mine for the first time tonight with a portable setup and was polar aligned in less than 5 minutes, going through the subs post alignment and its pretty good.

Granted am imaging at f6 with a tak fs6o but no issues yet.

[Dennis]

From what I understand, USB on LHS is recommended when the “Astronomical Refraction” option is enabled. This orientation should give an inverted image (rotated 180º).

If you place the USB connector on the RHS you should get a “right way up” image that corresponds to what the naked eye can see (i.e. not an inverted image).

I have “Astronomical Refraction” enabled and set up with the USB on the LHS and thus get an inverted image on my computer screen (i.e. upside down and mirrored L-R).

Cheers

Dennis

[beren]

Dennis is that LHS of the mount while looking behind your mount to the south ?

[Dennis]

Standing facing the DEC axis (counterweight shaft between your legs), with your back to the SCP and looking at the mount, so your “eyes” are effectively looking N with your “bottom” facing S.

West is then to your Left and East is to your Right.

This assumes you are standing on your feet – not your head!;):)

Cheers

Dennis

[beren]

;) cheers

[Mosc_007]

I have used mine twice. First time it took a while to find Sigma Octans. The second time it was only 5 mins to get the best polar align I have ever had. Best tool I have seen. Cant recall left or right plug side. But it is with the Image the correct way up.

[byronpaul]

I have a permanent set-up at home, so haven’t needed to use the PoleMaster for a while, but here are some others comments I’d add to my earlier posts.

I use the set-up with the USB on the west side of the mount.

In the field, in the past I’ve actually struggled to even get a rough polar alignment when first plonking the mount down and looking at a compass. As we all know, if we can’t get this right then any subsequent polar alignment routine is going to be difficult.

So along came the PoleMaster and now the very first thing I do once my mount is set-up and balanced is I start the camera, but not the alignment software. Then I spin the mount around the RA axis. At this point you can very easily work out if you are roughly aligned or way off. I use this method to get a rough polar alignment then a start the PoleMaster software and process.

I’ve bought the adapters for my NEQ6, HEQ5Pro and Polarie. In years gone by, I HATED polar alignment as I just couldn’t get it sorted or I was adjusting back and forth, back and forth.

I don’t know how to measure the accuracy of my polar alignment, but I guide at focal length of 432mm on an imaging scope of focal length 1100mm, and my guiding adjustments in PHD2 and Maxim are typically ¼ ~ ½ pixel or less.

Paul

[JimsShed]

I got one of these and have now used it twice. I think I would have been very lost if AstroNZ hadn't put his tutorial on YouTube. First time out I fiddled around for about 30 mins. 2nd time, yep 10 mins all done.
On arrival my camera was not focused correctly and the grub screw locking the focus barrel is the tiniest I've ever seen. Had to use one of those tiny flat blade jewellery screwdrivers to undo it.
Anyway no problems with the software on Win10 and the camera is reliably recognised every time I plug it into the Dell laptop.
Finding Octans the first time was a learning experience and the nature of the system requires that your axis is very close to the celestial pole to start with otherwise it's out of the FOV.
This thing is not cheap but it does work even though I'm in suburban Brisbane.

[Dennis]

Just a few screen captures to show my view South and Sigma Octantis poking over my neighbour's roof line.

The image is inverted (rotated 180º) as I have the USB on the LHS of the mount.

Cheers

Dennis