North Korea claims it has denotated a H-bomb

[gary]

North Korea has claimed it made a successful hydrogen bomb test.



http://www.smh.com.au/world/north-korea-eartquake-magnitude-51-quake-detected-near-north-korea-nuclear-test-site-20160106-gm09cb.html

[gary]

BBC reports -



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35240012

[Satchmo]

The yanks only beat 'em by 70 years :)

[gary]

Hi Mark,

Happy New Year!

To be historically accurate, only by 64 years.

The first thermonuclear detonation was the "Ivy Mike" shot in 1952.

The Koreans are claiming they have now detonated a full thermonuclear
H-bomb, not simply an A-bomb.

Worryingly, the North Koreans have been working on and testing the missile delivery systems as well.

[Atmos]

Should be very easy to confirm or deny, there are enough neutrino detectors scattered around the world so there would have been a lot of hits at the same time, shortly before a registerable tremor.

[Sconesbie]

Not sure I'd believe what N Korea says. Reports also say there was an earthquake rated 5 or so near the reported detonation site. Propoganda?? Let's see what others removed from the area say. We need some experts there. If it is true however, it is worrying.

[gary]

Whilst the world awaits news from the monitoring stations of the IAEA
whether North Korea's claims are true or not, one possibility occurred to
me that the North Korean detonation way be what is referred to as
a "boosted" fission device.

Using tritium and deuterium gasses inside a fission device, one can boost
its performance through the release of fast neutrons. Much of the plutonium
or uranium in a nuclear weapon can fail to fission before the device blows
itself apart and boosting can achieve a higher yield. Some of the tritium
and deuterium mixture can undergo fusion and these devices were sometimes
referred to as fission-fusion-fission weapons.

This can also result in a smaller device that is much easier to weaponize
and deliver.

The energy released by the fusion stage of such devices was relatively
negligible. It's job was to aid in the fission efficiency.

The US underwent a brief period where they developed and tested them
before they went on to build the first full-scale H-bombs. Boosting is
also employed in full-scale staged thermo-nuclear weapons.

[AndrewJ]

Gday Gary

If they are playing with using other elements to assist in the process, lets just hope they dont make the same mistakes the yanks made when playing with Castle Bravo :-(

Andrew

[gary]

Hi Andrew,

Indeed.

Imagine some alternate universe where skimpy swimwear was referred
to as a pyongyang rather than a bikini. Doesn't have quite the same
ring about it.

Since the Ivy Mike and Castle Bravo fusion tests were so technically challenging
and expensive to design at the time, it makes the North Korean claim extraordinary.

The worry if it is true is the prospect of further proliferation.

The North Koreans purchased much of their nuclear weapon
design knowledge from the Pakistanis as a result of the infamous
Abdul Qadeer Khan connection.

BBC documentary on Abdul Qadeer Khan here -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-ZExKS6OW8

For a country that is undergoing a trade embargo, there must be a serious
motivation for North Korea to bring in hard currency through the sale of whatever
new nuclear weapons technology they may have independently developed.

[AndrewJ]

Gday Gary

Unless the dear leader has read Sun Tzu, and successfully employed the use of spies to get a head start.
The Russians saved quite a bit of time and money using this method via the Rosenbergs and Fuchs etc. Quite a cheap program really.
Also, and more scarily, is someone else still covertly helping, to enable testing of "their" new ideas without getting blamed????

Andrew

[alocky]

Assuming the magnitude 5.1 earthquake was caused by the test, it is reasonably easy to convert to the yield in kilotons of TNT- in this case about 7.26, which is quite a small device. It's smaller than the trinity test by a good margin. Considering that the yield of an H-bomb is usually in the tens of mega tons equivalent, it's likely that they finally managed to get one of their plutonium devices to work properly.
Irrespective - one of these in the hands of a lunatic is very disturbing.

Andrew.

[Regulus]

Mr Kim feeding his prisoners a bit of BS on the back of an earthquake so when he rails against America, his people believe the mighty Democratic Peoples Republic of North Korean Army can destroy the baby eating Americans any time Kim gives the go ahead.
It's bloody sad, and if China didn't back them this country would have been unified decades ago under a democratic system of government.

[leon]

He is a strange man, and i don't believe any of the crap that they report, other than the cruel and disgusting person that he is, and how they treat their own citizens, the sooner he is gone the better.

Leon

[rockinspace]

Truth is this cant in anyway be ignored.

Not just this Korea, few of of nations already have this weapon for some time, this guys just said they had it now.

Future is going to be more more diplomatic else some ones "one stupid" move 'Énd of the days'

So live happily all the current days we got with family.... good days

Guess i will spend more time star gazing now.

[alpal]

I don't think it was a full H bomb -

North Korea may have just been testing to see if they could get a small
amount of deuterium & tritium to achieve fusion.

[Regulus]

These three points;


China is p***ed with them for not giving a heads up to their allies and financiers.
The earthquake was detected 10klms below ground.
A hydrogen bomb requires and atom bomb as a detonator, and we all saw how their atom bomb fizzled. And i'm no expert, but i don't think you can have a thermo-nuclear bomb give such a small yield (correct me if I'm wrong)

He took credit for an earthquake because he is a truly screwed up human. It is enough to know that he was schooled and holidayed in Europe and knows that Americans don't eat children, and that the rest of the world isn't suffering under terrible political regimes. Yet he went back and continued the lies about the rest of the world to his people when he became their god. Sociopath. Whether in actuality, or just acting the part, the result is the same.
A hot lead injection to his brain would be a great kindness to the Nth Korean people.

Trev

[OICURMT]

Data seems to contradict your proposed depth.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/us10004bnm#scientific_origin

[xelasnave]

Would his removal change things.

[Regulus]

I'm basing on initial newspaper reports. Haven't looked further.
Thanks.

[OICURMT]

No, but I'm an engineer... that should say it all... :D

[alocky]

It wasn't even a bit of an h-bomb. Previous tests released the right combination of isotopes to indicate that the devices were plutonium. The very low yields of these tests suggests that the devices are very inefficient, or very small. Perhaps small enough to fit in one of the missile systems they have been testing...
Worrying - and hopefully with China's blessing this lunatic and his dynasty will be put somewhere they will stop causing harm to their own people.

[gary]

In a news article in Nature yesterday (http://www.nature.com/news/what-kind-of-bomb-did-north-korea-detonate-1.19132), Declan Butler & Elizabeth Gibney
ask "What kind of bomb did North Korea detonate?"

In order to tell, the hope is that some of the radioactive gasses leaked
from the underground explosion and that prevailing winds will carry them
far enough to be detected for nuclear forensic analysis.

But in order to do so, some of the short-lived isotopes would need to be
measured within the coming days before they decay.

The Preparatory Commission for the Comprehensive
Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty Organization (CTBTO) (https://www.ctbto.org/specials/who-we-are/) maintain a global network
of radiation monitors.



Last month, satellite imagery had detected that North Korea has been
excavating a new tunnel at the Punggye-ri nuclear test site.
Article and imagery here -
http://38north.org/2015/12/punggye120215/

In the Nature news story, James Acton, who studies nuclear policy at
the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington DC,
also says that the seismic event indicates an explosion in the order of
10 kilotonnes - too small for a H-bomb - but speculates, as I had done
earlier, as to whether it might be a boosted fission device employing small
amounts of deuterium and tritium.





Nature news story here -
http://www.nature.com/news/what-kind-of-bomb-did-north-korea-detonate-1.19132

Richard Stone, in Science, also reports on the test being of low-yield
and speculation of whether it might be a boosted fission device -
http://news.sciencemag.org/asiapacific/2016/01/does-north-korea-really-have-h-bomb

[gary]

Backgrounder

The Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Nuclear-Test-Ban_Treaty) was adopted in 1996
and has 183 signatories.

The only three nations that refused to sign are North Korea, Pakistan
and India.

North Korea, Pakistan and India are also the only three countries
who have ignored the test ban.

India and Pakistan carried out two tests each in 1998 and North Korea
has carried out four tests.

India originally obtained the bomb in 1972 under Indira Gandhi.

The plutonium came from a nuclear reactor Canada had donated,
even though Canada had stipulated it only be used for peaceful
purposes.

Pakistan, who had been at war with India, then felt the urgency to build
nuclear weapons to help deter any threat from India.

India and Pakistan have also refused to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation
Treaty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Non-Proliferation_of_Nuclear_Weapons).

North Korea then obtained much of its nuclear bomb design know-how
through proliferation from Pakistan.

Despite India refusing to sign the Comprehensive Nuclear Test
Ban Treaty and the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and despite their
continuing work on Intercontinental Ballistic Missile Systems (ICBM's) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agni-VI),
last November Australia agreed to supply India with uranium.

[astroron]

Despite India refusing to sign the Comprehensive Nuclear Test
Ban Treaty and the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and despite their
continuing work on Intercontinental Ballistic Missile Systems (ICBM's),
last November Australia agreed to supply India with uranium.

The sleazy government under the Abbott/Turnbull led coalition broke all the rules for the sake of the almighty dollar,
I was surprised that there was not any visible complaint by the US government,or even the United Nations.
The Labor opposition whimpered a very muted reply in parliament,but probably agreed on the quiet. :sadeyes:
Cheers:thumbsup:

[alpal]

That's what I think too.

[clive milne]

Frankly, I am far more concerned with Israel's nuclear program and its (expansionist) territorial and geopolitical ambitions.


...... waiting for the inevitable hasbara - sayanim response/censorship.



google these two words if you are up for a trip down the rabbit hole:

hasbara
sayanim


whilst you are at it, watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjOH1XMAwZA

you have been 'had' as the saying goes.